Viking malts

[Tobor_8thMan]

I got some on sale at More Beer, and only used it in one batch. I've heard comments that brewers have issues hitting their OG numbers, compared to other malts . Maybe someone will brew some SMASH beers and do a side by side comparison.

Hmm... planned to brew a Spotted Cow clone the Saturday or Memorial Day weekend using 2 row malt. Perhaps, I should modify the recipe and use the Viking 2 row I just purchased from MoreBeer. My brewhouse efficiency is > 90%, however, being conservative, I formulate my recipes based on 85% brew house efficiency.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I bought a few 10 pound bags of the Pale Ale Malt, and I really wanted to like it due to the price. I think I've decided to just stick with Briess though. I had good efficiency with my first batch (BIAB), but the flavor wasn't the best and I recall it being a little darker than expected. I don't really care about the color, but I obviously care about the flavor.

I used it a couple weeks ago on a Blue Moon clone and had horrible efficiency. That was probably due to the Oats and White Wheat as much as the Viking, but the Viking surely didn't help things.

At this point I'd rather just spend the extra ~$2-3/batch and stick with the Briess 2-row.

Remember European pale malt is darker than North American pale malt. What time was your mash?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I made a trappist single with all pilsner and some golden candi syrup.

One of the best beers I have ever made.

The pale ale malt does look darker than 2 row by Great Western.

The grains are fat, and I had to adjust my rollers to get them to grind appropriately, but after doing that I got my normal efficiency.

No complaints at all.View attachment 625691

Man, nice looking trappist.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Ring the Bell (3/24/2019)

All Grain Recipe

Batch Size: 10.00 gal Style: Trappist Single (26A)
Boil Size: 11.58 gal Style Guide: BJCP 2015
Color: 4.9 SRM Equipment: My Equipment
Bitterness: 35.7 IBUs Boil Time: 60 min
Est OG: 1.047 (11.8° P) Mash Profile: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Est FG: 1.006 SG (1.6° P) Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
ABV: 5.4% Taste Rating: 30.0


Ingredients
Amount Name Type #
16.00 gal Trappist Single Water
11.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60 min) Misc
4.00 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60 min) Misc
1.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60 min) Misc
5.00 ml Phosphoric Acid 10% (Sparge 60 min) Misc

14 lbs Viking Pilsner Malt (2.0 SRM) Grain
1 lbs Belgian Candi Syrup (MASTER RECIPE) (30.0 SRM) Sugar

40.00 g Helga (Southern Hallertau) [5.5%] - Boil 60 min Hops
20.00 g Helga (Southern Hallertau) [5.5%] - Boil 20 min Hops
20.00 g Santiam [6.0%] - Boil 20 min Hops
20.00 g Vanguard [5.5%] - Boil 20 min Hops
70.00 g Santiam [6.0%] - Boil 5 min Hops

1 pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast
30.00 g Centennial 2017 [9.7%] - Dry Hop 2 days Hops

Mashed 149 for 60 min
Pitched @63 and let it free-rise

Thanks. Kudos for the recipe. Why fooling with water treatment? Using distilled water or tap?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I tapped a Belgian Pale I made with Pils, Vienna, caramel 200 (75L), special B and WLP500 last night. All viking except the special B. Tastes great.View attachment 625943

Nice looking Belgian Pale. Are your Crepe Myrtle flowering already?

 

[Stand]

Thanks. Kudos for the recipe. Why fooling with water treatment? Using distilled water or tap?

I'm adding to water salts to meet some minimum standards. My water has very low mineral levels, so adding those gives me a target profile of: 62 CA, 10.5 Mg, 15 NA, 56 SO4, 102 CL, 21 HCO3

I was very happy with the result.

Nice looking Belgian Pale. Are your Crepe Myrtle flowering already?

Haha thanks! The monstrosity in the background is a rose bush. I need a chainsaw to bring it back. Pale looks even better now. Cleaned up nice with a little time in the kegerator.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I'm adding to water salts to meet some minimum standards. My water has very low mineral levels, so adding those gives me a target profile of: 62 CA, 10.5 Mg, 15 NA, 56 SO4, 102 CL, 21 HCO3

I was very happy with the result.



Haha thanks! The monstrosity in the background is a rose bush. I need a chainsaw to bring it back. Pale looks even better now. Cleaned up nice with a little time in the kegerator.

Using well water or tap?

 

[Stand]

Carbon filtered tap water.

 

[ong]

British malt. This is expected. What about hitting your numbers? (OG)

Scandinavian Pilsen malt isn’t British. And my point was that the Lovibond numbers reported by the maltster were waaaay off. My OG was ok, although as you’d expect from over-kilned grain, there were a lot more unfermentables left behind than I wanted.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Scandinavian Pilsen malt isn’t British. And my point was that the Lovibond numbers reported by the maltster were waaaay off. My OG was ok, although as you’d expect from over-kilned grain, there were a lot more unfermentables left behind than I wanted.

I should have written European malt instead of British.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I modified the Spotted Cow recipe replacing the domestic 2 row with Viking 2 row. As expected the estimated color changed from 4.5 to 4.8. I'll know more after brewing on Saturday.

 

[PMcGuen]

I’m on my second batch using Viking pale as my base malt. I have hit or exceeded my projected og both times. They are both the same recipe of IPA. I used 13.5lbs of the Viking. First batch tastes great. I’ll update in a couple weeks when I sample the second batch. The first batch was darker than I wanted, but I expected it. I think Briess is a 2.5 srm and the Viking is 4??

 

[Hammer Malt]

Make sure you guys are asking for a "certificate of analysis" if you absolutely need to hit your specs. Those COA's will tell you everything you need to know so that your not guessing or predicting what is going to happen during the mashing process. SRM is a good example. COA's can even tell you what PH your wort will be before you even start.......very useful info. Our Pale Malt has a Wort PH of 5.71 whereas our Munich has a PH of 5.50 just to give you guys an example.
Cheers

 

[Mer-man]

Viking’s not going to do CoAs for these small batches. That’s a Weyermann luxury.

Hopefully I’m wrong....

 

[Vale71]

Viking’s not going to do CoAs for these small batches. That’s a Weyermann luxury.

Hopefully I’m wrong....

They do them, the problem is unlike Weyermann they don't make them easily available to retail customers. If you were to order directly from them you'd surely get one without having to ask but I fear the minimum order amount is staggering even for the most dedicated homebrewer. If you get the malt in an original 25kg sack there will still be a lot number printed on it as that is mandatory in Europe. You can try and email it to them asking for the CoA for that lot, worst thing that could happen is you get no response from them.

 

[Beer-lord]

I bought a sack of the Viking Malt Morebeer has on sale but plan on using it at least 50/50 with my standard Rahr 2 row. I also have a very expensive sack of Mecca Grade Lamonta malt and it is SUPERB!!!! Because I'm cheap AND it still makes great beer, I've been blending it with my Rahr 2 row and can't tell the difference. I figure using Viking and Rahr or Viking and Mecca, I can still get a great tasting beer and save pennies. Win-Win!

 

[Mer-man]

They do them, the problem is unlike Weyermann they don't make them easily available to retail customers. If you were to order directly from them you'd surely get one without having to ask but I fear the minimum order amount is staggering even for the most dedicated homebrewer. If you get the malt in an original 25kg sack there will still be a lot number printed on it as that is mandatory in Europe. You can try and email it to them asking for the CoA for that lot, worst thing that could happen is you get no response from them.

Right, I tried getting a CoA before their rebrand and they ignored the email. Maybe their HB service has improved.

 

[tennesseean_87]

I've stocked up a bit on these malts when they had some coupon running (at MoreBeer I think...) and plan on using some pils and wheat in a Gose and session Wheat IPA. I'll see how they turn out, but neither are particularly malt-forward. I'm planning to estimate my efficiency a bit low due to some of the reports about this.

 

[verboten]

This says it's a typical analysis for the extra pale https://www.morebeer.com/images/file.php?file_id=28838

and each page seems to have a few different certs on it.

I have been using different Viking Malts for my beers for the last 6 months, no complaints, you just have to know what the numbers are and pick accordingly if you want to hit it right. My IPA gets crystal 15L The viking50 is 17-21.

 

[Stand]

Just finished second round on my Trappist single. 95% viking pilsner, 5% golden candi syrup.

Color looks spot on for me this time.

 

[bovine_OB]

In my experience, just binge brewed a rye ipa, Munich helles, and hefeweizen. All three used Viking pilsner and Viking specialty malts when possible. Yeasts were us05, 34/70, and Munich classic respectively, all fermented in the recommended temps. The flavor is lacking in all three beers. Each is almost watery, just meh. Not bad, just doesn't punch a guy in the face with malt flavor. Efficiency was ok, maybe a little lower than expected. And FG was as low or lower than expected. Color was slightly darker than prior brews, especially for all the pilsner that was in these recipes.

 

[Saunassa]

I had to open up the mill a bit because the grains were larger then the American two row. efficiency with biab was good. there is a noticeable difference in the flavor of the raw grains when you taste/chew them side by side and I may prefer the flavor of the Viking. Slightly darker does not bother me, finished flavor will and I will have an idea next week when the Hornindal yeast beer is done carbing. Real test will be when I brew up the BM Centennial blonde to compare with the American malt version I did a few months ago. Low hopped so it is hard to hide anything malt related with that blonde.

 

[Soulshine2]

I tapped a Belgian Pale I made with Pils, Vienna, caramel 200 (75L), special B and WLP500 last night. All viking except the special B. Tastes great.View attachment 625943

thats a good looking beer. hows the taste notes?

 

[Soulshine2]

In my experience, just binge brewed a rye ipa, Munich helles, and hefeweizen. All three used Viking pilsner and Viking specialty malts when possible. Yeasts were us05, 34/70, and Munich classic respectively, all fermented in the recommended temps. The flavor is lacking in all three beers. Each is almost watery, just meh. Not bad, just doesn't punch a guy in the face with malt flavor. Efficiency was ok, maybe a little lower than expected. And FG was as low or lower than expected. Color was slightly darker than prior brews, especially for all the pilsner that was in these recipes.

I love those 3 beers, disappointing you didnt get the results you were after.

 

[Stand]

thats a good looking beer. hows the taste notes?

Thanks man! It turned out alright, except that I used too much Special B which I hadn't used before. I used 5%, and it dominated the flavor. Next time I'm just going to elminate it and switch the Vienna for Munich and a little D90. Not a fan of burnt marshmallows.

 

[Soulshine2]

Thanks man! It turned out alright, except that I used too much Special B which I hadn't used before. I used 5%, and it dominated the flavor. Next time I'm just going to elminate it and switch the Vienna for Munich and a little D90. Not a fan of burnt marshmallows.

yeah, special B in brewing is like salt in food, tiny bit adds flavor, tiny bit too much and its ruined . You cant undo it.
Do you have the book by Ray Daniels -"Designing Great Beers" ?

 

[Stand]

Yeah, I have the Ray Daniels' book, but he doesn't cover Belgian beers. I have the Stan Hieronymus book as well, and I think I remember him saying he's talked to Ray Daniels about making a version just around Belgian beers. I wish he would! Really good resources.

 

[tennesseean_87]

So I've used these malts a few times now.

First was a double batch of 50/50 pils/wheat. Efficiency was low for me at 70% (usually 75ish). Half got soured and became a Margarita Gose, which I'm really happy with. The other half got an addition of cold-steeped chocolate wheat and lots of Medusa hops and became a dark wheat session IPA. This came out well, too, but neither of these are particularly malty beers. THey both have a lot else going on, so maybe not the best to judge the flavor of the malt.

I just brewed a light-weight pils-ish beer. It was a half lb of carapils, 1.25lb munich, and pils to 1.040 with bittering charge to get 20 ibus and an oz at 10 min and flameout. I got good efficiecny at 80%, but I find I usually get better efficiency when doing a protein rest (15-20 minutes at 115F). We'll see how this one turns out.

 

[Stand]

Morebeer had Spalter Select for 9.99 a pound, so I did a lager with Spalter Select, Viking Pils, and Imperial L28 Urkel. This is the first time I've ever made a lager, but it turned out better than I expected. I get a light sweetness and some bread/crackers from the malt. It lingers slightly in a very pleasant way while still being crisp. You just want another sip, and I think my keg must have sprung a leak it's going so fast. I'm very happy with the malt.

 

[CodeSection]

While I'm still interested in learning more about various results when using Viking grains, it appears for me that there is another reason to hold off using them. A few posters have mentioned they had to increase the gap size of their mill since the Viking grain was larger. I take it as you could not mix the Viking grain with your other grains and achieve the same crush. For me, it would get old quickly having to constantly change the gap size for one recipe...even changing it an extra one time would be annoying.

So, for those that changed their milling gap, what was the "old" size to the "new" size? Perhaps their original size was smaller than I crush now.....

Viking Potential Issues
1. Lovibond. However, that should be eliminated with their Xtra Pale Grain.
2. Efficiency. Mixed reviews.
3. Taste. Mixed Reviews.
4. Repeatable brewing results. Various posts suggest this is a problem.
5. Grain size. Must change mill gap? Perhaps that is why there may be efficiency issues.

Viking Benefits
1. Cost is about 23% less than GW 2-Row.

I would like to save money just like everyone else and that is why I am following this thread. However, at the end of the day, saving money is a much, much lower priority for me if the cost is lower efficiency, negative taste as compared to the original recipe, poor repeatable results and lastly, now having to constantly change the mill's gap size.

Please keep posting your results.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

... but neither of these are particularly malty beers.

Mash temp?

 

[Saunassa]

After posting here someone suggested checking the gap on the mills to see if parallel. It was slightly wider on one end so I did the old credit card trick. So the gap is now even across and set it for loose card. mixed the grains together and ran them through. Had a nice crush yet left the husks fairly well intact. I will dig up some feeler gauges and see what the gap is.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I found the following. Perhaps, helpful?

http://www.vikingmalt.com/how-can-we-help/recipes-brew-reports/

 

[CodeSection]

I found the following. Perhaps, helpful?

http://www.vikingmalt.com/how-can-we-help/recipes-brew-reports/

I read those as well....

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Plus contact Viking, ask questions, etc. Maybe get better insight to their malt directly from them.

 

[Saunassa]

Since they do not list the diastatic power factor on many of their grains I sent an email to their brewmaster in Finland. He sent me an email within 8 hours with his suggested numbers to use for brewing software. Then again perhaps it helps that I have a Finnish name.

 

[Saunassa]

Used my feeler gauges. Gap between the rollers is .034"

 

[Stand]

I just measured my gap at .045, but it should be noted that my barley crusher is 7-8 years old and probably needs to be replaced.

I brewed today and I got 83% efficiency with that gap.

 

[CodeSection]

Since they do not list the diastatic power factor on many of their grains I sent an email to their brewmaster in Finland. He sent me an email within 8 hours with his suggested numbers to use for brewing software. Then again perhaps it helps that I have a Finnish name.

Are those numbers easy to share?

Used my feeler gauges. Gap between the rollers is .034"

Well based upon that gap size, I will not have to change anything on my mill since I mill at .035. Based upon your recent milling, item number five above on my list is no longer an issue for me. I'm guessing it will not be that much an issue with others at that gap size or larger. Thanks for taking the time to measure your gap size!

 

[CodeSection]

Duplicate. Weird that it didn't show as posted the first time....