magnj
Well-Known Member
So I should not just pull the beer off the cake and then dump in new wort, but take a lot of the cake out?
Using Yeast Cake
- Thread starter stevecaaster
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llazy_llama
Well-Known Member
Either way works. I prefer to pitch straight onto a full yeast cake, some prefer not to. The choice is yours, but neither one will ruin your beer.
magnj
Well-Known Member
Ok I just don't want to overpitch. I've done it before but this is the first time I've heard that it could be detrimental.
Sometimes the whole cake could be bad. Yeast bite can happen. A little less than Mr. Malty says will be fine and little more would still be fine. Some lag time is a good thing (let your yeast have some and populate their little world!) It makes for better beer.
cdburg
Well-Known Member
You really think that Jamil wrote the code in the calculator to downgrade the viability quicker and cause people to buy new yeast when they don't need to? Are the black helicopters flying over your house too?
No, I think the best information he had was off. It's not so simple anyway. Harvest and storage play a huge role and we can not trust everyone's practices. They played it too much on the safe side (to sell new yeast.). This is from my experience.
cdburg
Well-Known Member
If you prefer to think that, you're more than welcome. From what I have heard him describe multiple times on his shows on The Brewing Network, the calculator was based off both numbers he got from studies from Wyeast and from his own studies. He wasn't simply fed numbers from yast companies. He also backed up those numbers with his own information.
Harvest and storage do play a large role, but it's also been supported by other professional interviews I've seen and read that harvested yeast tends to go downhill pretty quickly as it uses up it's reserves. I really doubt that his motives are selling yeast. I think they're more to have something that will meet the "middle of the road" practices used by most homebrewers. It may play it a little on the "safe side," but I'd rather play it safe and make better beer, personally.
That said, I definitely agree with you that a little more or a little less than the amounts the calculator recommends will be fine. Lag time is also definitely not bad. In fact, it's a necessary thing. Esters made during yeast growth are part of the flavor of all beers. Pitching on to an entire cake has not produced beer as good as a proper pitch, in my experience.
Harvest and storage do play a large role, but it's also been supported by other professional interviews I've seen and read that harvested yeast tends to go downhill pretty quickly as it uses up it's reserves. I really doubt that his motives are selling yeast. I think they're more to have something that will meet the "middle of the road" practices used by most homebrewers. It may play it a little on the "safe side," but I'd rather play it safe and make better beer, personally.
That said, I definitely agree with you that a little more or a little less than the amounts the calculator recommends will be fine. Lag time is also definitely not bad. In fact, it's a necessary thing. Esters made during yeast growth are part of the flavor of all beers. Pitching on to an entire cake has not produced beer as good as a proper pitch, in my experience.
I certainly agree with you and I disagree on some points. We both must be both be right, LOL.
But then the yeaties do love me!
I'm talking about what I know yeast can do, nothing else. My viability rates must be far better or the calculator is fouled. I pick the latter.
But then the yeaties do love me!
cdburg
Well-Known Member
No harm, no foul. Like I said, you're very welcome to your own opinions. I just disagree with part of what you're saying. I know what yeast has done for me too, especially a few varieties that I use a lot, and my experience tends to lean more toward his calculator.
As Ron Burgundy would say "Whale's ******... Agree to disagree."
As Ron Burgundy would say "Whale's ******... Agree to disagree."
Opinion is not experience. I agree to disagree,
talenos
Well-Known Member
So, for a first time of trying this I want to make an oatmeal stout and follow it up with a RIS. I noticed the recipe for the RIS actually recommended pitching onto a yeast cake as preferable. Does this help with higher gravity brews a lot then?
cdburg
Well-Known Member
Personally, as described earlier, I would almost never pitch onto an entire yeast cake. For most beers, using the entire cake would be overpitching. Brewing a smaller beer can be a great way to get more yeast for a larger beer (like a RIS). Rather than pitching onto the entire cake though, you should use the "proper" (or close to it) amount of yeast for your needs.
For a ball park suggestion on the amount of yeast, try the Mr. Malty Yeast Pitching Calculator:
Mr Malty Pitching Rate Calculator
If you're looking for more information about repitching, the Brew Strong episode on repitcing may be a good source of information. Give it a listen, if you have some time.
The Brewing Network.com - : Brew Strong > Repitching
smakudwn
Well-Known Member
ok. So i racked to the secondary last night. swirled what was left in the bottom of the primary and put it in a sanatized glass container (holy crap......if thats mostly yeast that is a lot of yeast!)and then into the fridge. So my question is. I wont be ready to use this till thursday. Do i just take the container out and decant then pitch how much i need? Is this too long to wait?
thanks
thanks
Mainebrew
Well-Known Member
I just did this friday night, racked a moose drool and used the s-o4 cake for the Oatmeal Stout I did. There was action within a couple of hours, but did not need a blowoff tube I put 5 gallons in a 6.5 gal carboy, the funny thing is my buddy took the other 1/2 of the 10 gallon batch and pitched a dry S-04 pack and the next night it blew the airlock off and hit the ceiling. It was a 1.070 beer though and his carboy was narrow and mine was a wide 6.5
wendelgee2
Well-Known Member
I had a beer ferment far too hot (varying from 75 to 85F). Are those yeasts "stressed" or otherwised mutated, or would it be okay to pitch onto that cake?
wendelgee2
Well-Known Member
BrewStrong answered my question: If the beer you just brewed with the yeast didn't come out well, don't pitch onto it again.
[Edit: Actually, BrewStrong then said that fermenting at (relatively) high temps does not have a large negative impact on yeast viability.]
[Edit: Actually, BrewStrong then said that fermenting at (relatively) high temps does not have a large negative impact on yeast viability.]
smakudwn
Well-Known Member
Update. I pitched most of that yeast slury into the next batch and it started fermenting in about 8 hours. Everything so far seems to be going well. Will bottle this in the next week then see from there.
ErieShores
Well-Known Member
I hate to bump an old thread but I'm wondering about the results from some of the cake/slurry pitches. I'm brewing a brown ale and bottling a porter. I'm considering pitching on the cake but I'm still a bit leery.
I have done it several times with zero problems. ALWAYS from a smaller to a larger beer . I did however try an experiment with a brew I am dry hopping right now. I hate the excess trub from pitching on an entire yeast cake and I saw this on here and it seems to have worked. I racked my initial brew into a bottling bucket then opened up a ziploc baggie and stuck it over the top of the carboy ( or you could scoop it out if using a bucket.) I turned the carboy upside down and poured a good amount of trub into the baggie... sealed it up and tossed it in the beer fridge. A week or so later brewed and cut the corner of the baggie off with sanitized scissors and squeezed the trub into the new fermentor like squeezing toothpaste. racked the beer on top of that and had activity REALLY quickly...
I think this will only work if used soon. Then there is always yeast washing which works very well.
ErieShores
Well-Known Member
Steve, would the baggie or Pyrex measuring cup work if it was used the same day? I plan to bottle and brew simultaniously.
I don't see why not.. if it will keep for a week I thuink immediately would be a piece of cake.. just make sure everything is sanitized.
ErieShores
Well-Known Member
Thanks Steve!
NBABUCKS1
Well-Known Member
should I aerate my wort if I am pitching onto yeast cake?
dschof
Member
I just reused yeast for the first time and I used tips from this site. I pulled the beer off of the cake and bottled it, returned the airlock to the fermenter for 1-2 days until I was ready to brew the next batch. I brewed up the wort, cooled it and when I was ready to pitch I poured 2 cups of water onto the yeast cake and swirled it around until it was all in solution. I poured half of that into the new wort and aerated. I poured the rest down the drain. Fermenting was terrific for this batch.
2 questions that I have for re-using yeast are:
1. Can you store yeast longer term (like you do with a White Labs vial) for future batchs? If so, how do you store it?
2. Have you used yeast cakes from types of yeast that you wouldn't normally use for the style of beer that you are brewing up? I like the idea of re-using yeast and I can see myself mixing yeast and styles when re-using yeast cakes. When I buy yeast vials I am sure to match styles as I am sure most of us here do.
2 questions that I have for re-using yeast are:
1. Can you store yeast longer term (like you do with a White Labs vial) for future batchs? If so, how do you store it?
2. Have you used yeast cakes from types of yeast that you wouldn't normally use for the style of beer that you are brewing up? I like the idea of re-using yeast and I can see myself mixing yeast and styles when re-using yeast cakes. When I buy yeast vials I am sure to match styles as I am sure most of us here do.
NBABUCKS1
Well-Known Member
Dschof- two Back to back kodiak login that's crazy...
That makes 3 on the board now! who are you..im guessing coastie?
That makes 3 on the board now! who are you..im guessing coastie?
Defiantly. Yeast RINSING is a waste of time if your pitching proper amounts. 100ml in 20000ml is below the threshold for any noticeable impact on color or flavor.
Absolutely not. Don't even shake it.
griffonage
Member
Aerate or Not???
Definitely or Defiantly?
Neither responder gives a reason to, or not to Aerate. anyone else want to weigh in?
Always aerate. I can'r spell.
With a whole cake you don't need a growth phase (oxygen is used in the growth phase.). You have close to the numbers you need. They are old and tired.
It's better to pitch a good amount that will enjoy a good growth phase. You should aerate it well. Happy yeast make better beer than old and tired yeast. The growth phase will produce a new generation of healthy yeast.
With a whole cake you don't need a growth phase (oxygen is used in the growth phase.). You have close to the numbers you need. They are old and tired.
It's better to pitch a good amount that will enjoy a good growth phase. You should aerate it well. Happy yeast make better beer than old and tired yeast. The growth phase will produce a new generation of healthy yeast.
