Using poor man's methods, but getting good results. Should I invest more effort?

[Yirg]

I'm relatively new to AG brewing and have been using methods that would probably make many here cringe. Still, the results are good so I'd be interested to hear opinions on whether switching to more "serious" methods or tools would be worth the efforts and cost.

- I'm using a voile bag for mashing, and instead of an insulated mash tun I'm simply using the pot with an improvised false bottom. I'm heating the water to 69°c/156°f, then I turn the flame off, put the bag with grains in, give it a healthy stir and cover the pot. Every 20 minutes or so, when the temperature drops to around 64°c/147°f I lift the bag up using a pulley, turn the flame on until I hit 69°c/156°f again (while stirring the wort), then turn it off and put the bag back in.
- After mashing, I use a garden hose for sparging. I just lift the bag up, and hose the top of the bag with cold water from different angles. When I reach the intended pre-boil volume I stop, turn up the heat and start the boiling stage.

I'm getting OG that is close to what it should be according to the recipes, so I guess efficiency is not as bad as one would assume with these poor man's methods. The resulting beer is typically very good. The question is, am I missing a whole lot by not using a proper mash tun and proper sparging technique? What improvements should I expect by doing things "right"?

 

[Travestian]

Well the first thing that comes to mind is temperature control for your mash. While what you are doing isn't necessarily wrong, you aren't controlling temperature well which means you can't control how the final mouthfeel or sweetness of your beer can be. Lower temps mean more fermentable and dryer beer. Higher temps mean thicker and sweeter beer. Not being able to control this means you can't get exactly what you want. Since what you are doing is working for you then don't change it, unless you want more control over your final product.

The second thing that comes to mind is "garden hose" flavors. I can only imagine the taste from that. But again if you're getting good beers then more power to you. You might find a better beer though using an RV hose or a charcoal filter, or both.

 

[jekeane]

I would suggest using a second pot to get your sparge water up to 170. It will give you a better rinse and you'll get more sugars that way. BIAB method is very popular now adays.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I don't think you are doing anything "wrong", but I comment as follows:

1. Depending on type of garden hose, and how well flushed out it is when dispensing your sparge water, you may be introducing off flavors. Ideally you should be using a potable water type hose. Is this affecting the taste of your beer or introducing contaminants...uh maybe, sorry can't be more definitive
2. A cold water sparge is fine IMO and will rinse sugar as well as hot...at least that is what Kai or braukaiser determined.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Braukaiser.com
3. More accurate temp control could lead to better results if you want to fine tune the characteristics of your wort...will it make it better, well maybe depending on your desire, taste and goals....again maybe. Sounds like you are mashing at mid range average temperatures and with a proper grain bill you may be getting your desired results.

If you are happy with your results, and while I don't see anything WRONG with what your are doing, some simple change MIGHT improve your beer.

Homebrewing can be taken to an advanced level as one desire's.

 

[Peruvian802]

I swapped from a garden hose to a RV hose for brewing less due to off flavors and more due to the chemical hazards in the average garden hose. There have been multiple studies to suggest that most are made with hazardous additives such as Phthalates and bisphenol A (BPA).

As for temp control, wrap your pot and lid in an old camping pad or some other closed cell foam and you will loose much less heat. It's a very cheap and easy fix.

Overall, for less than $15, you could make safer and better beer.

 

[frankjones]

If what you are doing work s. I'd stick with it. I have a six gallon pot I bought at a yard sale for $2. The lid was garbage. The pot was fine. I use a pizza circular home made pizza sheet for a lid. It also doubles as a cookie tray and a tray to make crescent rolls and such. I insulate the pot with a thick bath towel. Easily maintain 150 for mash.

 

[The542]

Aside from the garden hose as others have mentioned, if what you have is producing beer that you and the people around you enjoy, I see no practical reason to spend more. If it were me, I'd focus on things that would make your brew day easier, especially cleanup which is my dreaded point of the day.
If you're determined to invest in something to make the process more enjoyable, find areas that are a pita, and improve them.

Extreme example: I hate scooping grain out of my masher a quart at a time, so I converted a craigslist shop vac to hold a trash bag in the canister and just suck the spent grain out directly into a bag. That was $20 well spent in my mind and radically improved my perception of a brew day.

 

[acidrain]

I would concentrate on other factors:
Can you chill quickly? Fast chilling to pitch temp reduces the chance of infection and shortens the brew day.
Are you pitching the correct amount of yeast? Maybe build a $12 stir plate.
Are you temp controlling the fermenting beer? Maybe pick up a free mini fridge and invest $10 in an ST1000 controller.
Are you bottling? Investing in kegging equipment is the single biggest time saver I use. Two weeks ago I brewed an ESB. This Saturday I will keg it, and by Monday I'll be enjoying it. Total effort from fermenter to keg is about 1/2 hour.

 

[frankjones]

I would concentrate on other factors:
Can you chill quickly? Fast chilling to pitch temp reduces the chance of infection and shortens the brew day.
Are you pitching the correct amount of yeast? Maybe build a $12 stir plate.
Are you temp controlling the fermenting beer? Maybe pick up a free mini fridge and invest $10 in an ST1000 controller.
Are you bottling? Investing in kegging equipment is the single biggest time saver I use. Two weeks ago I brewed an ESB. This Saturday I will keg it, and by Monday I'll be enjoying it. Total effort from fermenter to keg is about 1/2 hour.

+1 on the mini fridge. That's on my Craig's list. List.
And a fermentation/temp controller by Johnson.

I think that is going to be my next investment.

For cooling. I top up with one gallon or half gallon of frozen water.
Measure out and freeze it then rip away the zip lock bag and drop it into wort.
Works great on three gallon batch.
After I do that I submerge frozen (sterilized) water/soda bottles... On a four gallon batch.

I can get a furious for gallon boil in my $2 six gallon pot down to 70 degrees in 30 minutes

 

[monkeybox]

I'm with the others. You can get as advanced as you want. Many things will contribute to slightly better beer, but mostly, they'll contribute to consistent beer. At this point in my homebrewing, I could care less about consistency, so I'm willing to take shortcuts. The sacrifice, of course, is that if you get the really, really good beer, there's a decent chance that next time you brew it, it won't turn out as good. Further, when it isn't as good, you probably won't know why.

I'm okay with that for my brewing. If you're okay with that for yours, then keep doing what you're doing.

 

[Yirg]

Thanks a lot for all the replies. Sorry I couldn't respond earlier...

Travestian, consistency is indeed a possible issue. I’m looking into some options for improving temperature stability. I’m debating between trying a picnic cooler and a plastic fermentation container. The former will probably provide better stability, but I already own the latter so it’s less expensive to try. Both should be keep temperature stability better than a metal pot, as would the suggestions from Peruvian802 and FrankJones to wrap the pot with some insulation (which may be the most convenient option)
As for the garden hose, I don’t use water that stood in the hose, but fresh water that just passed through it. I can’t taste any difference between this water and what I get directly from the faucet.

Jekeane, since I’m using the same pot for mashing and boiling batch sparging isn’t really possible. This is why I lift the bag up before flushing it with water. Doing this with a hose is pretty easy, but I don’t see how I could do it if I heated water in a separate pot. Maybe use a third (smaller) pot to take water and pour it over the top of the bag? I may need to experiment with it.

Wilserbrewer, the water in the hose is indeed flushed out and is the same water in my faucet. It tastes fine. Thanks for the link to braukaiser.com. I wasn’t familiar with this site and it looks very interesting.

Peruvian802, I need to check if my hose has any details about the materials used. If not (or worse – if the materials are unhealthy), then the RV hose may be a good upgrade. BTW, I like your idea of wrapping the pot with some insulating material. I’ll definitely try that and see how it works.

FrankJones, using a bath towel is indeed a very simple upgrade. Can you tell me what is the volume of your batch and what kind of temperature drop down do you see during mashing?

The542, for me the biggest PITA is not the post-mash cleaning, but cleaning the bottles. I have yet to find a good solution for that, aside from switching to kegs, but I prefer bottles. I just like the convenience of having many kinds of beer in my regular fridge not taking up too much space + the flexibility of being able to give bottles to friends.

Acidrain, for chilling I pump ice water via coil chiller and I also top the batch with sterilized cold water (similar to the method FrankJones described above). It works fine. I also had mostly good results with the no-chill method, but a single failed batch convinced me to use a chiller.
The amount of yeast I pitch is based on the recipe in use, rounded to whole unit (that is, 1, 2 or 3 packets, depending on batch size). So far I haven’t had any stuck or sluggish ferments, so I guess it works well.
I’m using a wine fridge for 5 gallon batches, and a temperature controlled room at a friend’s house for 13 gallon batches.
Kegging is a decent way to save time, but I prefer bottles (see above).

Monkeybox, I agree that as long as the beer is good, consistency is secondary. I may give this aspect more weight if I want to brew the same beer again, but right now I want to experiment with many different styles.

Thanks again for all the great replies. Very helpful.

 

[Doctor_M]

I would concentrate on other factors:
Can you chill quickly? Fast chilling to pitch temp reduces the chance of infection and shortens the brew day.
Are you pitching the correct amount of yeast? Maybe build a $12 stir plate.
Are you temp controlling the fermenting beer? Maybe pick up a free mini fridge and invest $10 in an ST1000 controller.
Are you bottling? Investing in kegging equipment is the single biggest time saver I use. Two weeks ago I brewed an ESB. This Saturday I will keg it, and by Monday I'll be enjoying it. Total effort from fermenter to keg is about 1/2 hour.

I'm with the others. You can get as advanced as you want. Many things will contribute to slightly better beer, but mostly, they'll contribute to consistent beer. At this point in my homebrewing, I could care less about consistency, so I'm willing to take shortcuts. The sacrifice, of course, is that if you get the really, really good beer, there's a decent chance that next time you brew it, it won't turn out as good. Further, when it isn't as good, you probably won't know why.

I'm okay with that for my brewing. If you're okay with that for yours, then keep doing what you're doing.

This and this. And a definite +1 to getting into kegging considering your last post you said you hate cleaning bottles. The only disadvantage to kegging is initial cost PERIOD.

Edited to add: I just saw you said you like the ability to have a wide selection of beer in bottles and the ability to have beer to give out to friends... you can do this with a kegging setup and eliminate having to clean so many bottles by kegging first, carbonating, serve from keg for a couple of weeks then bottle off whatever hasn't been drunk utilizing a beer gun.

I will say it again the only disadvantage to kegging is initial cost PERIOD.

 

[Yirg]

I'm not sure I understand the suggestion about kegs. I normally keep between 5 to 7 kinds of homebrew in my fridge, usually a bottle or two of each. This takes up relatively little space. Note that I don't tend to drink the latest batch more than previous batches. I just drink whatever I fancy at the moment. And every time I drink a bottle, I usually replace it with another one of the same type (until I run out). How do you suggest to achieve a comparable selection using kegs? Wouldn't the same variety consume a lot of space?

 

[Doctor_M]

I am not trying to turn this into a keg vs. Bottle debate it's been debated to death here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/who-prefers-bottling-over-kegging-450557/ lots of good points from both sides.

A full keg worth of beer will take up less space than a full keg worth of beer that has been bottled. A 5 gallon keg's footprint takes up less space than a case and most people's space issues are horizontal and not vertical. Yes a dedicated keezer to keep multiple kegs cold will obviously take up more space then your fridge that you currently use but I'll bet you could fit a keg or two in said fridge that you already own. Drink from those one or two kegs til another batch is ready then transfer to bottles (a smaller amount of bottles since you have been drinking out of the tap) via a beer gun and repeat the process with the new keg. In a short while you will have a nice stash of a variety of home brew in bottles with no sediment/ yeast to worry about in said bottle as a bonus!

I guess I should ask what size batches do you brew?

 

[Yirg]

Thanks for the link. I just started reading this discussion and the very first reply captures nicely my view on this. I don't have 20 types of beer, but 5 to 7 is not uncommon, and I too am drinking beer mostly by myself so consumption is slow (usually a bottle a day, rarely two).

My batches differ in size. I brew with friends, so I usually end up with 3 gallons or so. This means about 30 0.33L bottles per batch, of which 1 or 2 bottles end up in the fridge, while the rest are stored out of it.

 

[CanAusBrewer]

To sparge with hot water two techniques that I have used for BIAB are to heat water and pour it into a watering can and sparge the top of the grain bag. Our the other method is to heat an electric kettle to the desired temp and sparge directly with that.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Firstly I will start by saying, if you are happy with your methods and make good beer, only change things if you really want to.

In my opinion the most important things to change that have the most impact on brewing are temperature control (especially during fermentation), pitching rates and oxygenating your wort, as well as sanitation. I am hearing water chemistry is the next thing that can/will make a difference in beer, but so long as you make good beer and you are happy with your process, why spend money to change things?

 

[Hello]

Usually I say you should take some steps to make better beer but if you're happy with your end product then what makes you think you should change? I get that this site can make anyone feel the need to change things, but in general, if you're happy then that is what matters.

Aside from this, I cringed when I read that you use a garden hose for sparging. You can't get hot water from a hose, not hot enough to sprage with at least. It's a garden hose and I know exactly what my hose water tastes like. You're also not doing much justice for your beer if you're hosing it down with colder water.

Can you re-brew the same beers with the same results? Perhaps you should try BIAB. A bag for a very large kettle ran me under $30. You can get one here: http://www.brewinabag.com and they're fantastic bags. This will let you technically omit the garden hose step.

Mash temp control is key as well as things that aid in healthy fermentation such as yeast pitch rates, temperature of your wort when pitched, oxygen, and then fermentation temp control.

 

[Doctor_M]

Thanks for the link. I just started reading this discussion and the very first reply captures nicely my view on this. I don't have 20 types of beer, but 5 to 7 is not uncommon, and I too am drinking beer mostly by myself so consumption is slow (usually a bottle a day, rarely two).

My batches differ in size. I brew with friends, so I usually end up with 3 gallons or so. This means about 30 0.33L bottles per batch, of which 1 or 2 bottles end up in the fridge, while the rest are stored out of it.

If you stopped reading after that post you would have missed where I pointed out a beer gun solves that problem. With that being said if your only netting 3 gallons I could see where kegging may be a bit overkill although if money isn't tight I still think you will enjoy the switch more than you think but to each their own.

 

[cernst151]

If it's working for you then keep doing what you're doing. The quick & easy "fixes" I can see are these.
1) Wrap your kettle in towels or blankets to hold the mash temp better. I have a pretty heavy duty kettle and wrap it in 2 bath towels and I only lose 1-2 degrees per hour. Just remember to pull the towels off before you turn the burner back on. I lost a good towel that way.
2) Before you sparge bring your mash water temp up to 170 degrees or so. That should help get more wort out of your grains and bump up your efficiency a bit.
3) You may already do this but run the hose for a minute so you're not spraying in water that's been sitting in the hose for a few days.

I don't know what the rest of your process is like but these are some easy and free things you can do to bump up your game a bit.

 

[madscientist451]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, so if you like your beer the way it is then don't change a thing.
Have you done side by side taste tests of your brew compared to a similar commercial example you like? If you like yours better, that's great.
Your experience shows that you don't need an expensive rig to make a decent beer.

 

[cernst151]

HA, I guess I should have read the second page before responding since it looks like all of my suggestions were already out there. If you're finding it frustrating to clean the bottles do you use a bottle sprayer?
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/vinator-bottle-rinser.html
That's easily the fastest and easiest way of sanitizing bottles I've found anywhere.

I tend to fall on the bottling side of things for the same reasons you mentioned. I currently have about 10 different homebrews on my shelf and 4 more carbing in the bottles. Even if I bought/built a kegerator I'd be unlikely to be able to keep more than 4-5 beers cold at a time. Sure, that's probably enough realistically but I'm a fiend for variety. Also, while 1 5 gallon keg does take up less floor space than 2 cases of beer 1 kegerator takes up much more space and electricity than a comparable amount of cases. Besides, the initial investment in getting the full kegging setup w/ multiple kegs, CO2, kegerator and beer gun is pretty huge. Given that you're using the "poor mans method" I would assume you don't want to drop a ton of money into brewing.

Sure, I don't like the process of bottling any more than the next guy but the variety, space and initial cost savings "PERIOD" are enough to keep me doing it.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Additionally, for bottle cleaning, a dishwasher (without rinse aid) on the sanitize drying cycle works pretty well, especially if you rinse gross debris and yeast immediately after you empty the bottle.

 

[CanAusBrewer]

Additionally, for bottle cleaning, a dishwasher (without rinse aid) on the sanitize drying cycle works pretty well, especially if you rinse gross debris and yeast immediately after you empty the bottle.

Unless you use PET bottles like me our you will end up with some miniature bottles that stand at a funn angle haha.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Unless you use PET bottles like me our you will end up with some miniature bottles that stand at a funn angle haha.

Aww, who doesnt like Shrinkey-Dink beer bottles? You should see how nice Better Bottles handle hot liquids.