Using Pilsen 2-row as a base Malt.

[FrostyGrog]

Hi all, I only have about a year of brewing under my belt and I’m hoping someone could help me with some guidelines to brewing a simple clean IPA, possibly a session level ABV of around the low to mid 5%. Sadly, the only base malt I have is a Belgian Pilsen Malt as I have run out of 2-row.

I do have some specialty malts laying around also which I can list if it helps, I also have a freezer full of different hop varieties in varied amounts. I have searched everywhere to find a recipe that is an IPA or APA that uses Pilsen as a base malt. Where I live (in Costa Rica) I am about 7 hours from the LHBS and getting more ingredients isn’t an option.

As I have never used Pilsen Malt before I am not sure if I would need to use additions of darker malts to bring out some character, mouth feel or depth to the beer. I have looked at some SMASH beer ideas Like a “Yellow Rose” clone by Lone Pint Brewery and I have Mosaic hops, the only problem is it has an ABV of 6.8%.

In order to make a version that falls in the 5% ABV range I came up with this recipe.

14.4lb Pilsner (2 Row) Belgium

10.0 oz Flaked Wheat (for head retention)

0.70 oz Mosaic Boil 60 mins

1.14 oz Mosaic Boil 20 mins

1.60 oz Mosaic Boil 10 mins

2.3 oz Mosaic Whirlpool @ 170 degrees for 20 minutes

2.3 oz Mosaic dry hop 5 days.

Beersmith shows the ABV as 5.5% for a 7 gallon batch (6 gallons into the fermenter after a 90 minute boil)

Anybody here have suggestions, does this recipe look reasonable? Will it be a shadow of the original?

Cheers and thanks in advance.

 

[Smellyglove]

"Sadly" you only have belgian pilsner instead of two row?

I use Belgian pilsner as base for one of my IPA's. Just use it, don't worry about have to add a bunch of specialty grains, let the hops shine. you might want to add at least one specialty malt though, although it's not "needed".

And, don't trust Beersmiths ABV-estimate. Since you're saying what it shows I guess you haven't tuned in that portion of BS yet. And AFAIK it also contains a bug, but that's if you step mash.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Using the pilsen malt should be totally fine. You may find that you like the flavor better than generic 2 row and never go back.

I'm not an ipa fan, but in general, I don't use bland 2 row malt in anything anymore. The only base malts I buy in bags are belgian pils and maris otter.

 

[FrostyGrog]

"Sadly" you only have belgian pilsner instead of two row?

I use Belgian pilsner as base for one of my IPA's. Just use it, don't worry about to add more specialty grains, let the hops shine.

Awesome thanks for the reply I'll go ahead then. I was worried about the ABV levels and using less grain to achieve the lower alcohol percentage, the only worry I have is a thin watery but overly hopped beer. I need to tap this beer for easy drinking and turn around for new years, but I guess I'll brew this first thing tomorrow - Cheers!

 

[FrostyGrog]

"Sadly" you only have belgian pilsner instead of two row?

I use Belgian pilsner as base for one of my IPA's. Just use it, don't worry about have to add a bunch of specialty grains, let the hops shine. you might want to add at least one specialty malt though, although it's not "needed".

And, don't trust Beersmiths ABV-estimate. Since you're saying what it shows I guess you haven't tuned in that portion of BS yet. And AFAIK it also contains a bug, but that's if you step mash.

Yeah the BS ABV estimate is 5.5% using my profile, I don't step mash or rather I don't enter that into Beersmith. I do have a problem though with the yeast (US-05), it over attenuates and predictably drops under the 10's which blows out the ABV of anything I'm fermenting. Anyone who drinks my beer asks if I could make it lower alcohol (not that I care), but it seems like a fun project to try to do.

 

[Smellyglove]

You just have to adjust your process to make the attenuation in your setup match what you're after. I feel you can only use the word over-attenuation if it attenuates further in one batch of several. If it attenuates xx% "every" time, it's your normal attenuation.

 

[FrostyGrog]

Okay, well for the last seven or ten batches my gravity has dropped (aside from my stouts and darker beers) to below 1.008. sometimes lower. For me I choose to brew beers below 1.060 just to keep in the normal range within 5-6% range. Cheers.

 

[eetu]

You should consider your mash procedure if you feel like the FG is constantly too low. Raising the mash temperature would result in a less fermentable wort. Or just shoot for a slightly lower OG. Nothing wrong with a dry body if you are brewing something drinkable and hoppy.

The recipe looks good to me. Not so sure about all the late hop additions. I like to do just 60min + whirlpool or even 20min + whirlpool, especially with a single hop.

 

[RM-MN]

Hi all, I only have about a year of brewing under my belt and I’m hoping someone could help me with some guidelines to brewing a simple clean IPA, possibly a session level ABV of around the low to mid 5%. Sadly, the only base malt I have is a Belgian Pilsen Malt as I have run out of 2-row.

I do have some specialty malts laying around also which I can list if it helps, I also have a freezer full of different hop varieties in varied amounts. I have searched everywhere to find a recipe that is an IPA or APA that uses Pilsen as a base malt. Where I live (in Costa Rica) I am about 7 hours from the LHBS and getting more ingredients isn’t an option.

As I have never used Pilsen Malt before I am not sure if I would need to use additions of darker malts to bring out some character, mouth feel or depth to the beer. I have looked at some SMASH beer ideas Like a “Yellow Rose” clone by Lone Pint Brewery and I have Mosaic hops, the only problem is it has an ABV of 6.8%.

In order to make a version that falls in the 5% ABV range I came up with this recipe.

14.4lb Pilsner (2 Row) Belgium

10.0 oz Flaked Wheat (for head retention)

0.70 oz Mosaic Boil 60 mins

1.14 oz Mosaic Boil 20 mins

1.60 oz Mosaic Boil 10 mins

2.3 oz Mosaic Whirlpool @ 170 degrees for 20 minutes

2.3 oz Mosaic dry hop 5 days.

Beersmith shows the ABV as 5.5% for a 7 gallon batch (6 gallons into the fermenter after a 90 minute boil)

Anybody here have suggestions, does this recipe look reasonable? Will it be a shadow of the original?

Cheers and thanks in advance.

There are 4 things to consider when you want to make a beer with a certain percentage of alcohol. First is the quantity of base malt as it has a certain sugar potential per pound. Less grain gets less sugar leading to lower amount of alcohol.
Second is the efficiency of your system. Nobody but you know how well your system performs so we can only make guesses. The recipe you posted is designed for a certain brewhouse efficiency and yours may be way different which will get you a different outcome. I've come to know that I need to adjust the amount of base grains in the recipe to account for the typical efficiency I get.
Third is the mash temperature. With your grains the temperature of the mash should help you control the fermentability of the wort. Mashing high should get you a less fermentable wort ending with beer with more maltiness and body. Mashing low gets a more fermentable wort and your amount of alcohol goes up as the sweetness and body of the beer goes down.
Fourth is the temperature of the fermentation. Higher temperature at the beginning of the ferment gets the yeast more active and they may then be able to break down some of the sugars that they would not normally do. Keep them cool and the work slower.

Fifth is the choice of yeast. You may not have the option to use a less attenuative yeast on this batch but there are some availble (probably not on short notice where you live though). They may give you a different flavor profile which probably isn't what you have in mind but s-04 or Windsor yeast will attenuate less.

 

[FrostyGrog]

This is great food for thought I really appreciate the tips. My system I use gives me a fairly average efficiency (I think 72%), I do a mash in a bag technique in a cooler whereby I lift the grain bag post mash, drain the tun into the brew kettle then sparge the grain bag by slowly pouring 170 degree or or less temperature water over it.

As for controlling the ABV I generally mash my Pale Ales at around 152 or lower and I know US-05 is a high attenuator. I mash rarely higher only sometimes for darker malt recipes. I like a crisp dryer beer and have never mashed these styles higher so this could be a one way to lower the ABV. As you suggested RM, what temperature do you think I should shoot for for mashing this recipe?

I like to ferment in a controlled environment in the low 60’s taking into account the heat generated during the ferment, for me I try to reach a solid final gravity because I do a lot of bottling and don’t care for any explosions.

Should I look to mash this beer at around 155?

 

[RM-MN]

Since you want a crisp, dry beer you want to mash at the same 152 or lower to get the attenuation you want. Instead I would lower the amount of base malt as the way to control the amount of alcohol. I might also suggest that after a few days in your 60's degree temps you bring the beer warmer so the yeast dry it out to the max it can.

 

[FunkedOut]

If you want to tune in BS for the attenuation, you need to get a number for typical attenuation that you get with US-05 across several batches.
Then modify that yeast in BS and make sure you add it to the recipe.

Notice that adding or changing yeast in BS will affect the FG. You need to add the tuned yeast as an ingredient before your final tweak of the grain amounts.

Never step mashed myself.

 

[VTX1300]

I do an all Mosaic SMaSH with this hop schedule.
.5 oz FWH
.5 oz @60
1 oz @15
1 oz 170° hop stand for 20 minutes.
No dry hop(I have done this with dry hop but like it better without)
Gives a real nice, easy drinking beer without the hops overpowering the malt.

 

[Lefou]

Going to try FWH myself to see how that works out. It's something new that would definitely save time on the beer styles I typically brew.