2-row vs Pilsen

[YeastFeast]

Any big difference (when making a Hazy IPA, or other style I suppose) in using Pilsen vs 2-row base malt?
I always use 2-row…just curious if anyone has an opinion.
Cheers.

 

[Sammy86]

Any big difference (when making a Hazy IPA, or other style I suppose) in using Pilsen & 2-row base malt?
I always use 2-row…just curious if anyone has an opinion.
Cheers.

IMO Pils malt is more flavorful than your standard 2-Row. You will probably not taste a huge difference in a Hazy but with something like a German Pils/Helles you would (IMO).

::

 

[mabrungard]

Often, the main difference is that a 2-row or Pale malt is kilned just slightly darker than a Pils malt. Pils malt is typically the palest of malts and has a color under 3L.

A benefit of that slightly darker kilning is a reduction in SMS which is the precursor to DMS production. If you don't require a very pale beer color, then using the slightly darker pale malt should reduce your beer's DMS potential.

 

[GoodTruble]

Here as article comparing them.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/grain-comparison-pale-malt-2-row-vs-pilsner-malt/

 

[HM-2]

Pilsner is marginally paler and slightly more flavourful, generally speaking. But for anything other than pale lagers they're basically interchangable.

 

[tracer bullet]

Also, the more flavorful pils malt might not be flavorful in a way you want (it's a reason I tend to not like light lagers, but of course others do). Brew a SMaSH beer with both malts, not too heavy on the hops, and taste the difference for yourself.

I'm surprised the Brulosophy comparison didn't pick it up. I truly feel like I do.

 

[hottpeper13]

Pilsner malt also has a higher DP and I use it for beers with 20% adjunct like rice or corn. I don't keep 6 row in my inventory and buy full sacks of grain.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I'm surprised the Brulosophy comparison didn't pick it up.

 

[tracer bullet]

I get it, but I still find it a useful site. If they're at a festival full of people that know nothing, or are already drunk, I'd tend to disregard the results. Sometimes they are at club events, where I give it a little more weight. I also like their opinions paragraph, their testing, I do think they are experienced brewers and when they can't choose the oddball beer then I am definitely paying attention.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Also, the more flavorful pils malt might not be flavorful in a way you want (it's a reason I tend to not like light lagers, but of course others do). Brew a SMaSH beer with both malts, not too heavy on the hops, and taste the difference for yourself.

I'm surprised the Brulosophy comparison didn't pick it up. I truly feel like I do.

My general thoughts are that flavor of Pils and 2-Row can vary quite a bit from maltster to maltster.

Some Pils has a lot of flavor. Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian is one that really stood out to me. Avangard German Pils is very neutral, but it might have a bit more of a "white bread" character than a typical 2-Row. I currently have a sack of Sedako Bohemian Pils that I feel is between the two in flavors.

Back when I did a few 1 gallon single malt beer, I recall Briess 2-Row having more of a straw character, where Rahr 2-Row had a bit more of a grainy/whole wheat bread character. I liked the Rahr version better, but some people at my homebrew club liked the Briess better.

 

[tracer bullet]

My general thoughts are that flavor of Pils and 2-Row can vary quite a bit from maltster to maltster.

Some Pils has a lot of flavor. Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian is one that really stood out to me. Avangard German Pils is very neutral, but it might have a bit more of a "white bread" character than a typical 2-Row. I currently have a sack of Sedako Bohemian Pils that I feel is between the two in flavors.

Back when I did a few 1 gallon single malt beer, I recall Briess 2-Row having more of a straw character, where Rahr 2-Row had a bit more of a grainy/whole wheat bread character. I liked the Rahr version better, but some people at my homebrew club liked the Briess better.

That's a great point, and probably a lot of it. It's not enough to say Pilsner vs. 2-Row, better would be to say Pilsner from Maltster A vs. 2-Row from Maltster B.

 

[G_robertus]

My general thoughts are that flavor of Pils and 2-Row can vary quite a bit from maltster to maltster.

Some Pils has a lot of flavor. Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian is one that really stood out to me. Avangard German Pils is very neutral, but it might have a bit more of a "white bread" character than a typical 2-Row. I currently have a sack of Sedako Bohemian Pils that I feel is between the two in flavors.

Back when I did a few 1 gallon single malt beer, I recall Briess 2-Row having more of a straw character, where Rahr 2-Row had a bit more of a grainy/whole wheat bread character. I liked the Rahr version better, but some people at my homebrew club liked the Briess better.

I wholeheartedly agree with the note on malt origin. I notice more drastic differences between the same malt type from various origins than between types from the same origin.

I did a base malt comparison once and have since learned I don't care for Fawcett and Dingemans MO, but I do like Muntons and Paul's MO. Crisp was decent albeit bland. We don't get 'pale malt' like in the US, but when I compared Lager Malt (next best thing) to pilsner malt I found the former rather boring. It works when malt does not take the center stage, but yeast or hops do. Even then I do prefer some extra malt character and I would choose pale ale or darker malts anytime, but that's a personal preference based on flavour, availability and to a lesser degree price. For very pale lagers I'd still pick pilsner myself.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I wholeheartedly agree with the note on malt origin. I notice more drastic differences between the same malt type from various origins than between types from the same origin.

There is a really good multi-part Master Brewers Podcast titled "The Six-rowification of North American Two-row" with Joe Hertrich. It talks about the breeding programs funded by the large American breweries with the goal of brewing 2-row barley with the diastatic power of 6-row. So much of the mainstream North American barley was bred with a goal of being hot enough to convert mashes with up to 50% adjuncts.

I am now curious about what barley variety I have been using lately. I went through a sack or two of Montana Craft 2-Row, and I am currently brewing with a sack of Murphy & Rude (from Virginia) 2-Row. Both of their websites have generic terms like "specialty craft malts" and "locally sourced ingredients" but not much detail.

 

[AlexKay]

My general thoughts are that flavor of Pils and 2-Row can vary quite a bit from maltster to maltster.

Some Pils has a lot of flavor. Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian is one that really stood out to me. Avangard German Pils is very neutral, but it might have a bit more of a "white bread" character than a typical 2-Row. I currently have a sack of Sedako Bohemian Pils that I feel is between the two in flavors.

Back when I did a few 1 gallon single malt beer, I recall Briess 2-Row having more of a straw character, where Rahr 2-Row had a bit more of a grainy/whole wheat bread character. I liked the Rahr version better, but some people at my homebrew club liked the Briess better.

This is the opposite of my own experience. I've blind-tasted (chewed on malt) Pilsner malt from ~20 different maltsters, and couldn't show a statistical preference. I've made ~10 lightly-hopped SMaSHes with Pilsner malt and tasted them side-by-side, blind. Briess to Weyermann Barke to Crisp Hana: I could not discern a difference.

I'll be the first to admit I don't have the most sensitive palate, but I don't have the least sensitive one, either. My suggested conclusion: if you change maltsters for your Pilsner malt, there are at least some people (including some serious beer drinkers) who will not be able to tell the difference.

Maltster-to-maltster differences between more highly kilned malts -- Munich or English pale -- can be extreme. But Pilsner...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I wholeheartedly agree with the note on malt origin. I notice more drastic differences between the same malt type from various origins than between types from the same origin.

I did a base malt comparison once and have since learned I don't care for Fawcett and Dingemans MO, but I do like Muntons and Paul's MO. Crisp was decent albeit bland.

Except Otter is a bit of a funny one because of the way it is controlled centrally by Robin Appel. FWIW the Fawcett Otter is one of my favourites - in general the East Anglian ones are less interesting than others; the gold standard has to be Warminster partly because of the floor-malting thing but also for Otter in particular because they're part of the Robin Appel empire.

Going back to the OP who was asking about malts for hazies in particular - one thing to pay attention to is protein/nitrogen content, British malts tend to have less than others.

I've come to the conclusion that for British-style hazies (ie session strength, served on cask) I don't particularly care for 100% pilsner/extra pale grists, but my ideal is somewhere around 20-30% UK extra pale/pilsner and the rest regular UK pale.