Using actual barrel vs oak chips/cubes/spirals

[Rob2010SS]

Anyone ever compared the difference between using an actual oak barrel vs using something like cubes or spirals?

I have a 5G barrel that I've put 5 imperial stouts through. Thinking of getting a recently dumped 10 or 15 gal barrel but wondering if it makes that much difference compared to the chips/cubes/etc. I would think it does but just curious if anyone's tested it.

 

[Beerstein]

I’ve used both, with multiple types of oak. My Opinion is that for two weeks or less, cubes are okay. For bigger bears, a barrel causes the beer to tasted more rounded. I’m pretty sure that’s the micro oxidation. Seems to take 2-3 months minimum to start this process.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Is your barrel starting to fade? At some point it will stop contributing oak flavor, though you still get the benefits of controlled oxidation. I would wonder whether a used barrel could be renewed. Dunno how you'd go about it. Me personally, I'd probably add cubes of fresh oak to make up for the depleted wood. Or start brewing sours, as your barrel will eventually turn that way on its own anyway.

 

[shoengine]

My whisky barrel went neutral after two beers. The third stout I ran through it tasted like a non-barrel aged stout. It is now a sour barrel!

Interestingly, I had a "barrel aged" stout at Holy Mountain recently. After a few sips I remarked that it had no vanilla flavor at all. I looked at the menu again and noticed it said "neutral barrel".

Cheeky bastards.

 

[Beerstein]

I have several barrels, all 5 and 10L size. They do indead fade. Honestly, i like them muted. A strong stout get oaked really quickly on fresh oak. I’ve got a barrel with five fills on it. Each additional fill seems to go for a week longer than the last. ive read about commercial places that use “exhausted” barrels and add some shape of new oak to control the taste profiles.

ive read about ash barrels that impart little flavor, but used for micro oxidation. I’d love to try one of these.

personally, I would not hesitate to buy a used barrel. Especially one from Balcones .

 

[Garthmuss]

You may be aware of this but smaller barrels (5 gallons) have a much much larger surface to volume ratio than say a 30 gallon or 60 gallon full size barrel. This leads to much faster/stronger oak flavor extraction and oxidation. If it’s working well and you’re getting good beer out of it keep it up though!

I just know I’d love a barrel for my sours for long term aging but have never gotten one because this size issue.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I’ve used both, with multiple types of oak. My Opinion is that for two weeks or less, cubes are okay. For bigger bears, a barrel causes the beer to tasted more rounded. I’m pretty sure that’s the micro oxidation. Seems to take 2-3 months minimum to start this process.

Good answer, thanks! That makes sense.

Is your barrel starting to fade? At some point it will stop contributing oak flavor, though you still get the benefits of controlled oxidation. I would wonder whether a used barrel could be renewed. Dunno how you'd go about it. Me personally, I'd probably add cubes of fresh oak to make up for the depleted wood. Or start brewing sours, as your barrel will eventually turn that way on its own anyway.

Not too bad yet. My biggest thing is that right now, maxing out my batch size on an imperial stout, I can get 12 gallons into the fermenter. The barrel is only 5 gallons so then I have to fill the barrel twice to get the whole batch in it. I'd like to only do it once which is why I was considering getting a 15 gallon, if it was needed. The last stout we pulled out of it at the end of last year, still had pretty good oaky flavor to it so I don't think it's worn out, yet.

 

[JAReeves]

I know that in the olden days, when a cooperage was part of a brewery, neutral barrels could be disassembled so the insides could be sanded and retoasted. If the brewery was doing this, I am sure they could only do this a couple times before the barrels were dangerously thin. Aside from that option, since most of us have no clue how to properly cooper, you could hit the barrel every now and then with new spirits to at least reawaken the bourbon (or whatever) flavor.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

I remember reading somewhere, about a process of putting a length of heavy chain in the barrel, and rolling it around to scuff up or "bruise" the interior of the barrel to expose fresh spots.

I suppose one could rig up a chain on the end of a shaft and put it on a drill and accomplish something similar.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I remember reading somewhere, about a process of putting a length of heavy chain in the barrel, and rolling it around to scuff up or "bruise" the interior of the barrel to expose fresh spots.

I suppose one could rig up a chain on the end of a shaft and put it on a drill and accomplish something similar.

Building on your idea, what about rigging up a big rock tumbler to slowly rotate the barrel for hours/days, filling it with a bunch of rocks or whatever to act as an abrasive? I guess using a chain would make it easier to feed in and pull out than trying to shake out a bunch of loose rocks.

 

[Jaybird]

Is your barrel starting to fade? At some point it will stop contributing oak flavor, though you still get the benefits of controlled oxidation. I would wonder whether a used barrel could be renewed. Dunno how you'd go about it. Me personally, I'd probably add cubes of fresh oak to make up for the depleted wood. Or start brewing sours, as your barrel will eventually turn that way on its own anyway.

I have re-coopered several of my barrels. I don't scrape them I just re-toast to "heavy alligator"char. Add a couple bottles of cheap Black Velvet 3 months later you have an AWESOME fresh dumped like new oak barrel that will have AMAZING flavor! As will the Black Velvet!!


Cheers
Jay

 

[Jayjay1976]

I have re-coopered several of my barrels. I don't scrape them I just re-toast to "heavy alligator"char. Add a couple bottles of cheap Black Velvet 3 months later you have an AWESOME fresh dumped like new oak barrel that will have AMAZING flavor! As will the Black Velvet!!


Cheers
Jay

Sounds awesome, how do you re-toast them?

 

[JAReeves]

I have re-coopered several of my barrels. I don't scrape them I just re-toast to "heavy alligator"char. Add a couple bottles of cheap Black Velvet 3 months later you have an AWESOME fresh dumped like new oak barrel that will have AMAZING flavor! As will the Black Velvet!!


Cheers
Jay

To re-cooper, what is your process?

I recently received a dried-out barrel, the rings were loose, so I hammered them in as close as I could to center and then filled it with boiling water. I kept topping up the hot water until it stopped leaking, I think it took a day or two. It now holds liquid just fine.

Peace,

Reevesie

 

[Dr_Jeff]

I have re-coopered several of my barrels. I don't scrape them I just re-toast to "heavy alligator"char. Add a couple bottles of cheap Black Velvet 3 months later you have an AWESOME fresh dumped like new oak barrel that will have AMAZING flavor! As will the Black Velvet!!


Cheers
Jay

If I took one apart, I'd be afraid that I couldn't get it back together correctly.
Even if I numbered the staves.

 

[Jaybird]

If I took one apart, I'd be afraid that I couldn't get it back together correctly.
Even if I numbered the staves.

All you do it take the rings off 1 end pull the end cap out and then pound the rings back on to do the work and torch it. Never completely disassemble it.
Have fun with it. Can't go wrong!

Cheers
Jay

 

[Jaybird]

I use a hand torch and some neutral.

 

[Jaybird]

By removing just 1 end and making sure you put the rings back on and tight you will make sure not to torch where the staves meet and it will seal back up super easy

Cheers
Jay

 

[Jaybird]

To re-cooper, what is your process?

I recently received a dried-out barrel, the rings were loose, so I hammered them in as close as I could to center and then filled it with boiling water. I kept topping up the hot water until it stopped leaking, I think it took a day or two. It now holds liquid just fine.

Peace,

Reevesie

I would just put it back together fill it with water then sink it in my pool for a few days. Never had 1 not seal up and hold.

Cheers
Jay

 

[Jaybird]

Sounds awesome, how do you re-toast them?

Once I pull the rings off 1 side only, pull the end cap and pound the rings back on I'll do some simple superficial scraping, blow it out with my air compressor, then drop in some, or spray the inside with neutral (you can just use some really high proof alcohol like everclear). Throw a match in it and let that sucker burn. When it's at the heavy alligator char stage (you can see it) I spray it with water hose to put it out. It's that simple.

Cheers
Jay

 

[JAReeves]

EPIC! Love it!

EDIT: ok, so all my reading suggested wax-sealing 5G barrels to avoid too much oxidation, because of surface area, and such. Do you also seal the outside of your barrels? I have three and all of them are sealed on all sides with paraffin wax to slow down the Angel's partying with my booze.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

I have three ten gallon barrels and sealed them with paraffin wax as well.

 

[Davedrinksbeer]

I’ve bought a few 5 gallon bourbon barrels to use for my beers. Bourbon Barrels are the way to go for the best tasting beers, you get 2 or 3 uses out of them and then you can use them for Sours or Wine. My best Stouts and BarleyWines I’ve ever made came from using barrels. My second choice is oak cubes medium charred.

 

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

I remember reading somewhere, about a process of putting a length of heavy chain in the barrel, and rolling it around to scuff up or "bruise" the interior of the barrel to expose fresh spots.

I suppose one could rig up a chain on the end of a shaft and put it on a drill and accomplish something similar.

Cantillon in Brussels “cleans” their barrels with a chain. They’ve got a medieval torture device looking barrel shaker once they drop the chain in. A chain on a shaft is probably much more feasible for our scale.