Using a pasta maker to mill grain.

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I just finnished my first all grain, cream of 3 crops, using a modded michaels pasta mill. I was a little concerned that crush problems would be magnified because of the high adjunct ratio, ending in stuck sparges if i went too a little too fine or really bad efficiency if i went too coarse because not enough enzymes would get at the corn and rice. Based on my preliminary measurements I got almost exactly 70%. If this turns out to be repeatable, I will be one happy camper.

barley crusher.jpg
 
well, all i had to mill was 6 lbs of 2 row. I would say that I spent about five minutes at it, although there was a little fiddling and whatnot because this was my first time ever using grain. The hopper that I built holds almost 2 pounds, which makes it a little top heavy, I might make a new heavier base to make it a little easier to use. As well as I got closer to the end it seemed like the homemade knurling might be starting to clog a little, as it got easier to turn, but seemed like slightly less grain was coming through. Maybe it was just wearing in though.
 
I'm going to drag this one to the top one more time. I just did another batch, and came out at exactly 70 percent again(not 69 and not 71...weird). Anyway this one included crystal malt, and i noticed that the mill was having a little difficulty with it. As well I noticed that grain was not getting drawn through like in my first batch, so i figured I would have to hit the rollers again with a drill bit one more time. To top it all off, the hulls seemed like they were getting more mangled than I would like. So I kind of figured that although this was a decent idea, it just wasnt worth the end product.

Well, I was flipping through old posts and came along the idea of 'conditioning' grain before milling. I needed to put together a quick extract batch, and wanted to crush 10 ounces of crystal that the mill had such trouble with, so is tossed them with 1/2 ounce of water and let them sit for 10 minutes.

The difference was unbelievable. All grains were crushed, but the hulls were intact. They fed through incredibly well and quickly. I cant wait for my next all grain. I definitely will not be putting dry barley through this thing again.

Oh, one last note. If you do decide to power this thing (say with a drill), an 11/32 masonry bit fits perfectly into the handle hole and the little wings on the nose of the bit provide purchase into the mechanism so it doesn't slip. :ban:
 
cklages writes
... Well, I was flipping through old posts and came along the idea of 'conditioning' grain before milling. I needed to put together a quick extract batch, and wanted to crush 10 ounces of crystal that the mill had such trouble with, so is tossed them with 1/2 ounce of water and let them sit for 10 minutes.

The difference was unbelievable. All grains were crushed, but the hulls were intact. They fed through incredibly well and quickly. I cant wait for my next all grain. I definitely will not be putting dry barley through this thing again.
:ban:[/QUOTE]

A couple of comments on GRAIN CONDITIONING. I think Brew Your Own had an article a couple issues back about doing this. I thought this would be the bomb also however after doing a 5 gallon batch with poor efficiency results I have re-thought using such a technique. The reason why I believe my gravity came out so low was that the husk was more crushed then cracked. As a result, when I mashed in, the husk may have kind of resealed itself. This is just my speculation as to why my efficiency suffered. Unless you can accurately evaluate the mosture content during the conditioning, I'd suggest not spending the time or the effort.
Just my 2 cents.
BB
 
Wow thanks for the heads up, I definitely wouldn't have noticed a difference using steeping grains, but I would have been left scratching my head on my next all grain batch. You are definitely right about the husks seeming to remain very intact, I think perhaps I ought to use a finer crush if I try this again, and maybe consider milling the batch twice. Considering how easily this thing works I feel like I dont want to abandon the idea quite yet.

Perhaps I will try a bigger beer, split the grain bill in half and do two mashes, one with and one without the conditioning, and keep an eye on my efficiency. I will try to use minimal water as well. To be honest, I would happily lose a few points to make milling this easy, but I don't want to give away the farm, so to speak. Unfortunately I won't have room in primary for a few weeks at least.

Thanks again for the heads up though, you probably saved my more than a little consternation wondering where my efficiency went.
 
bbbrew said:
cklages writes
A couple of comments on GRAIN CONDITIONING. I think Brew Your Own had an article a couple issues back about doing this. I thought this would be the bomb also however after doing a 5 gallon batch with poor efficiency results I have re-thought using such a technique. The reason why I believe my gravity came out so low was that the husk was more crushed then cracked. As a result, when I mashed in, the husk may have kind of resealed itself. This is just my speculation as to why my efficiency suffered. Unless you can accurately evaluate the mosture content during the conditioning, I'd suggest not spending the time or the effort.
Just my 2 cents.
BB
Click to expand...

IMO, a poor crush (not fine enough) is the most likely cause of your low efficiency. I doubt that conditioning the malt had anything to do with it except that it might have required you to adjust your mill gap for a finer crush. It's been my experience that malt conditioning noticeably improves the efficiency. It's easy to control the moisture content. The usual recommended amount to use is 2-3% of the weight of the grain, so for a 10 lb grain bill you would use between 3 & 5 oz of water. I generally use about 3%. Exceeding 3% can be done, but at some point your mill will start getting gummed up and it can get messy. I spray the water on the grain as I dump it between two plastic buckets. It doesn't take much time or effort at all. I like to spray the malt withe the water then cover and let it stand for at least 1/2 hour to let the moisture disperse more evenly throughout the grain. Sometimes I let it rest over night before milling. I'm a believer in conditioning the malt and I do it routinely now for every batch.
 
Like I said in my previous post, after reading the article in BYO I thought grain conditioning would be the bomb. At the time, I was new to all grain and needed to work on my consistency. Now that I have graduated to understanding my system and have been getting 70-74% efficiency every time, I might try and revisit the grain conditioning technique at some point in time, with my eye on properly split grains.

Catt22, when you spray the grain going between the (2) buckets, do you have someone helping you? Or do you just pitch some in bucket 2 and spray, and repeat? I guess it would be nice to have a large flat surface which you could evenly spread the grains over and then coat with your 2-3% water (heated water might even be better).

I used my steeping bag, hung in my boil kettle with a small amount of water in it. I brought the water to a boil and 'steamed' the bag, occasionally mixing the external grains with the internal ones. I really had no way of telling how much water was added. The steeping bag held about 7 lbs of grain and I would boil/steam for about 20 minutes for each 7 lbs.

Any comments would be appreciated. Improvements in efficiency helps save some grain for next time and we homebrews always like to save a buck.

BB
 
bbbrew,

I usually do not have a helper available, but it's not at all difficult to do it by myself. I just balance the bucket containing the grain on my thigh with one hand and use a household spray bottle to wet the grain. The spray bottle has oz volume gradations on the side, so it's easy to measure the water fairly accurately. You could also simply spray the surface of the grain in the bucket. Dump some grain and repeat. I usually dump back and forth several times and I use a third bucket if I am doing a large or high gravity brew. It is not at all critical to spray the grain evenly. Malt has a very low moisture content out of the sack and a strong affinity for moisture. Letting it stand for awhile or overnight will allow the moisture to disperse evenly throughout the grain. It will not feel wet after you add the water. The grain gets sort of a silky feel to it when it's about right. IMO, you are going to a lot more trouble than necessary using the steeping bag hung in the boil kettle method. I would also be concerned about heating up the grain with the steam doing it that way. I also think that spraying the malt will distribute the water more evenly. You really don't even have to use a sprayer. You could just as easily dribble the water into the grain as you dump it between buckets. The water will disperse on it's own. Obviously, you would not want to just pour all of the water in at once, but you get the idea I am sure. No need to spread the grain out on a flat surface or anything like that. You are working too hard at this.

Your 70-74% efficiency is fine. I usually get about 75-80% and more often the former than the later. IMO, knowing what to expect is much more important than how high the numbers are. We are talking about a trivial difference in the cost. It's not worth stressing over. Some say that the quality of the wort may be higher when your efficiency is not. I don't have an opinion one way or the other on that, but I'm totally happy getting about 75% most of the time. I can grind the malt finer and push it up, but I'm running a RIMS and I need a high flow rate and I like to avoid a stuck mash. A coarser grind helps with that.
 
A bump for this great thread since the SWMBO picked up a Micheals Pasta Roller for me the other day.

I had a brilliant idea while sleeping on the bus commute this morning. I'm going to wrap the rollers in skateboard grip tape. It comes ready to go with great adhesive and is pretty durable. I'm going to pick some up from the local skateshop sometime this week and give it a go. Going to have to disassemble the thing to put it on properly though.

I'm 90% done with my woodworking design for the box as well. Going to make it fully enclosed to minimize dust. I'll probably start a thread with pictures once I get started on the build.
 
Mischief Brewing,
I'm not a skate boarder myself but if that stuff is anything like the tape on my kids scooters I'd be kind of leary about the grit that might come off when crushing something hard like crystal. My 2 cents.
BB
 
bbbrew said:
Mischief Brewing,
I'm not a skate boarder myself but if that stuff is anything like the tape on my kids scooters I'd be kind of leary about the grit that might come off when crushing something hard like crystal. My 2 cents.
BB
Click to expand...

I've been skating for over 33 years. I'm imagining the tape on your kids scooters is low quality crap. The good grip tape takes years of use to wear down, and I've never seen any of the grit coming off on my hands or shoes, or skin...

Even if it did lose a little into the grain, it would never make it into the boil kettle and I'm pretty confident that it wouldn't affect the flavor any...

It's worth a try right?
 
hey i tired this and mill keeps moving and shaking while I grind. I havent found comfortable effective and practical way of doing this.
 
Mine is finally completed and tweaked. I removed the side plates and the feet so I could screw it to a piece of plywood that has a hole in it. I sit in on a bucket and go.
Build a quick hopper and what not to direct the grain into the bucket. Holds about 5lbs at a time

I powered is using a modified paddle bit on my 14.4v dewalt set on low. Just grind off the tip. I hade an extra 1/2" that need a little extra grinding.
 
cklages said:
Are you using the handle or the 11/32 masonry bit in a drill? Also, have you tried conditioning the grain?
Click to expand...

No! is that what I need? Im using twist drill bit.

yea the vice that came with the pasta mill I do have it but its kinda small...
 
Well, the masonary bit works for me, the little 'wings' on the nose of the bit engage the slots, so it doesn't slip, and the bit requires no modification. People have also ground down spade bits to fit the slots, but it wouldn't use a standard twist drill bit as i would think it will slip and eventually wear down the mechanism. I would definitely try to permanently affix the base to something solid, i could see how frustrating this could be without that.
 
I actually just cut the end off the hand-crank, it was just long enough to work. I also had some trouble with the clamp that came with the roller, like WCrane I built a hopper and base and the whole contraption attaches securely on top of a 5gal pail. One trouble i have run into is the knob for the gap adjustment has stripped out, anyone else run into this problem?
 
McCheese haven't had that problem but the way i built the base, i cut a hole for the knob and makes it a pain to pull out and adjust.

I also found using angle brackets to attach my hopper assembly to the base. the assemby just about slides over the roller mill. This makes it sort of easy to take apart and clean it.
 
IMG_8534.jpg

Skateboard grip tape on

IMG_8537.jpg

View from the bottom.

The metal guides dragged on the tape so I left them off. Don't think it'll be an issue.

Going to start the wooden crushing station in a few days. I'm going to have it fully enclosed to minimize dust. Planning a huge wooden hopper to hold upwards of 30# grain...

I'll probably start a new thread for that build though...
 
Mischief_Brewing said:
The metal guides dragged on the tape so I left them off. Don't think it'll be an issue.

Going to start the wooden crushing station in a few days. I'm going to have it fully enclosed to minimize dust. Planning a huge wooden hopper to hold upwards of 30# grain...

I'll probably start a new thread for that build though...
Click to expand...


Any chance of running a few grains through there to see how well it crushes them? Curiosity about that grip tape doesn't like to wait for you to build the rest of the thing hah. ;)
 
IslandMike said:
Any chance of running a few grains through there to see how well it crushes them? Curiosity about that grip tape doesn't like to wait for you to build the rest of the thing hah. ;)
Click to expand...

I've got some grains in transit, will crush a handful when they arrive. I'm the same way, if I had any in the house, I would have run them through already...

My fingers are pretty raw after messing with that grip tape for a while, I have a feeling it's going to work pretty well.
 
03cafdcc.jpg

8e9401e1.jpg


Definitely a work in progress...

The hopper holds 24lbs of grain.

Sad to say that the skateboard grip tape did not survive the 28lb grain bill I just finished crushing. I'll attack the rollers with a drill bit tomorrow before I crush the 30lbs for my IPA.

There's a decent amount of griptape pieces in the grains, but i'm sure it won't be noticeable. Guess my honey irish red will be a griptape irish red...
 
I just did a search on Michael's website for "pasta" and didn't get any hits. Do they definitely carry these in-store? There is a Michael's right next to the place I am going for lunch and really don't want to sound like a big dummy when I ask about pasta machines. LOL

What section of the store would it be in?

Thanks,

John
 
johnodon said:
I just did a search on Michael's website for "pasta" and didn't get any hits. Do they definitely carry these in-store? There is a Michael's right next to the place I am going for lunch and really don't want to sound like a big dummy when I ask about pasta machines. LOL

What section of the store would it be in?

Thanks,

John
Click to expand...

Its next to the clay
 
Brief update:

As I posted, the grip tape didn't work very well. This version of my Irish red will definitely be a skateboarder ale...

I roughed up the rollers pretty good with a dremmel, but halfway through a 28# crush, it wasn't picking up anymore grain. I'm pretty sure the dust from the crush was caked around the rollers and preventing them from gripping the grain. I scooped it out and went at it with a drill and have had no problems since. Not the fastest crusher out there, but it is well worth the effort.
 
OK...here is my completed monstrosity! LOL While ugly as hell, it should be effective.

IMG_1775.jpg


The cabinet I used was an old cheap-o wine rack that was collection dust in the basement.

I roughed up the rollers using the drill method. I had a piece of 1x10 laying around so I cut it down to the zize I needed to be able to mount the crusher and also leave enough room for a permanently mounted motor. I cut a hole in it and seated the roller/crusher. I then mounted a 3.25" x 10" vent on the bottom to help guide the grain to the bucket.

IMG_1764.jpg

IMG_1763.jpg

IMG_1766.jpg


I then cut holes in the top and middle shelves of the wine rack and mounted the board with the crusher. I made the hopper out of particle board (cheapest solution I could come up with). I really don't expect to have to take this thing apart so I just siliconed all of the gaps.

IMG_1773.jpg

IMG_1778.jpg

IMG_1771.jpg

IMG_1769.jpg

IMG_1777.jpg


Like I said...UGLY!!! I'm off to my LHBS to get a pound of 2 row and test it out.

John




I'll use a trash bag around the funnel and bucket to control dust.
 
I have a few questions now that I think of it...

  1. What size paddle bit works best?
  2. Any suggestions for a motor? What RPM? I assume variable speed would be optimal.
  3. For those of you that have the model that has 7 thickness settings, which one have you found works best?

John
 
Cool project, I have an Imperia machine that I've only used a couple times so figured why not try to get some use out of it. Here's what it looks like so far just using materials I already had on hand. The 2L bottle hopper is just temporary.

1273-mill-bucket-cover-temp-hopper.jpg


Took it apart and roughed up the rollers using a 1" course sanding wheel in a drill.

1274-roller-close-up.jpg


Don't have any grain on hand at the moment but it handled a scoop of rice just fine.

Haven't read all of this thread yet, but I'm wondering if an infinite adjustment mod is worth bothering with or will the 6 adjustment settings be enough? Suppose I'll figure that out after picking up a bag of grain (and one of those masonry bits).
 
After 52 pages I went out bought 1 at jo ann fabrics for 13.00 with a 50% off coupon. Hoping all goes well but if not I'm not out much. Thanks a million for this thread:tank:
 
I'm going strong with 15 brew run though my now (250+lbs). I did take it apart about half way and greased it up with some silicon lube. It seems to be running just as good as new (knock on wood).

I did pick up a back up some where along the line from the craft store and tried it out. It didn't last long. This one had 'Darice' engraved on the cover.

The one I have been using has 'Atlas' engraved on it. I know it came from my aunt and uncle as a wedding present 15 years ago. I think we used it once over that time for pasta. Now I use it (2) a month.


JohnoDon,
See my post #467 for some further information on the setting. I don't go by the setting # as much as the opening between the rollers. You will know when you are crushing to much.

To your comment above about the quarter round, sometimes its nice to be able to get your hand below and check and see if is the way you want it and not all powder and dust.

Good Luck,
BB
 
I got my rollers knurled and a hopper made. the hopper didn't turn out to well but better than nothing. ran some grain through tonight to test and it looks pretty good for a $20 mill. I'll try to get a pic up

moddedpastamachine.jpg



and here is the grind.

pastagrind.jpg


Hopefully the pics worked.

Thanks for all the info on this thread!!!
 
I know there were questions about longevity with these. I paid $12.50 for one in 2009. I've run 34 batches through it in that time. The last 6 batches I've been having efficiency problems. So I asked for a Barley Crusher for x-mas. Not sure if the mill crush was a part of my efficiency problems or not. I'll know soon though.

For a $12.50 investment 2 years ago that's not bad, and I'm still not sure its my mill causing problems. The new crusher is nice though. I blinked and a pound was crushed very nicely. The crusher was 10 times the price of the pasta mill.
 
I guess I should check in on this thread. I made my pasta crusher a few months back. It has worked fine. The first two batches through I turned by hand. Then as I started the third I just quit after 5 minutes, brought the crank in the garage, straightened it out and cut off the end, then attached to drill. Finished much faster that way.

I will take the award for most ghetto looking mill. I used some junky scraps I had laying in the garage. I am cheap.

IMAG0213.jpg


IMAG0214.jpg


IMAG02151.jpg
 
I have to report that my grain mill has seen better days. I built it 23 months ago, ran god knows how much grain through it (at least 50 lbs last month alone.) probably hundreds of lbs of grain. And I think its time to retire it. :( Its getting harder and harder to mill the grain and its taking upwards of a half hour for even 12lb grainbills. The mechanics are getting sloppy, the rollers don't stay a constant distance apart.

I may keep it around for sentimental value but I am going to probably need another mill before I can brew again.

Thanks for the memories this thread inspired.
 

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