Unreasonable Sense of Entitlement. The scourge of modern society.

[Bobby_M]

I'm old enough (gasp) to remember the era of mailorder "as seen on TV" ads where the fast talking dude at the end would say "allow 6 to 8 weeks for delivery". Now, I realize we're in the same day Amazon Prime delivery era so we've come a long way.

I got an email today from a disgruntled customer who is upset that USPS estimated delivery yesterday but it's tracking several states away. It's obvious that USPS made a gross sorting error and it's taking longer than expected. I understand being disappointed about that. I've been on the receiving end of that many times.

What really took me back was the closing line of the email. "Will think twice before ordering from you again."

I replied with an explanation of what likely happened and that I was disappointed that he'd consider not using me as a vendor in the future due to a shipping carrier mistake. On what planet is this kind of opinion reasonable?

PSA to everyone. When you fire off an email to a vendor, please understand that it's a human on the other end. I put in 70+ hours a week trying to make everyone as happy as possible. I'm honored to have this career but there are days when I get two or three of these people busting my balls for similar issues.

Ok, just venting. Shots all around!

 

[MaxStout]

Yep, some people get a little too accustomed to instant gratification.

If it's a USPS delay, it's certainly not on you, though the customer chose to take it out on you, because, well, they can't argue with the Post Office and you're the next best target. And the crazy weather along the east coast has created delays with postal shipping, so they can't really blame USPS, either. If they get their panties in a twist over receiving their order a day or two late, then nothing you do is going to satisfy them anyway. You have lots of satisfied customers.

BTW, I just got my order from Brew Hardware yesterday (2 days early--yay!), so I'm one of those happy customers! But if it came a few days late, it'd be the same to me.

 

[Homercidal]

Maybe you don't want that idiot ordering from you again? What happens if a truck gets caught in a snowstorm or something? You can't risk it!

In any case, I've always had great service from you, Bobby. Cheers.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I'm old enough (gasp) to remember the era of mailorder "as seen on TV" ads where the fast talking dude at the end would say "allow 6 to 8 weeks for delivery". Now, I realize we're in the same day Amazon Prime delivery era so we've come a long way.

I got an email today from a disgruntled customer who is upset that USPS estimated delivery yesterday but it's tracking several states away. It's obvious that USPS made a gross sorting error and it's taking longer than expected. I understand being disappointed about that. I've been on the receiving end of that many times.

What really took me back was the closing line of the email. "Will think twice before ordering from you again."

I replied with an explanation of what likely happened and that I was disappointed that he'd consider not using me as a vendor in the future due to a shipping carrier mistake. On what planet is this kind of opinion reasonable?

PSA to everyone. When you fire off an email to a vendor, please understand that it's a human on the other end. I put in 70+ hours a week trying to make everyone as happy as possible. I'm honored to have this career but there are days when I get two or three of these people busting my balls for similar issues.

Ok, just venting. Shots all around!

And the reality is they prolly ordered from the "next town over" where they could have just drove in and gotten their order in an hour.

 

[jimmayhugh]

Bobby,

I have ordered many. many items from you, and have always been impressed with your prompt courteous service. The one time it took longer than normal to deliver a product that I ordered, it was due to a shipping problem on product coming to you. You offered to build the product yourself, rather than have me wait while you sorted out the delivery on your end.

We often take good prices, good product and good service for granted, but you've always gone above and beyond.

Thank you.

 

[Sadu]

I had some stuff run out of stock over the xmas break and had to email customers saying I'd be shipping their orders on the 5th.

At 12:01am on the 5th I got a demanding email asking if the order had been shipped yet or not, then another one at 2am berating me for crappy service.

I was blown away.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm laughing at this because I have an order from you, fulfilled last week, that's lost in limboland somewhere. I presume it was swept up in the bomb cyclone. It's been "In Transit to Destination" for several days now.

I'm trying to figure out how berating you might speed it up, but I'm at a loss.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I'm laughing at this because I have an order from you, fulfilled last week, that's lost in limboland somewhere. I presume it was swept up in the bomb cyclone. It's been "In Transit to Destination" for several days now.

I'm trying to figure out how berating you might speed it up, but I'm at a loss.

Be sure to do it in a comically french accent and throw in some berating comment that someone in his family smells of broccoli.

 

[mongoose33]

Be sure to do it in a comically french accent and throw in some berating comment that someone in his family smells of broccoli.

Bobby, yur shippair USPS cannot 'andle bomb'a cyclones, et wairse, yur mothair steenks of brocculi!

 

[myndflyte]

As hard as it might be, don't sweat it. I'm sure the vast majority of your customers are understanding in why shipments get delayed. We all want our stuff now (thanks Amazon) or if there is some error, people think they are entitled to something for free. I'm sure it's hard to be courteous to those kinds of people in situations like that.

 

[Konadog]

Bobby, yur shippair USPS cannot 'andle bomb'a cyclones, et wairse, yur mothair steenks of brocculi!

And you forgot

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

We all want our stuff now (thanks Amazon) ...

Maybe it's just my zip code, and lack of an operating local warehouse (soon to change) but Amazon has been one of the worst with regard to "instant gratification" IME. Too often an order will sit for days with no shipping confirmation. Have lost count of how many times I've had an order deliver before it even shows to have shipped.

 

[SanPancho]

not to go too far down the hole, but this is a serious issue with some of the young'ns these days. we're in SF, ground central for millenials with tons of money from google/facebook/twitter jobs and a complete lack of awareness of their assholery. among other businesses we have a dirty little dive bar/nightclub that has been in business for nearly 20 years, and i cant tell you the number of times we get threatened with bad yelp/google/facebook posts - as if we care. or get berated by these little punk customers because they cant do/have/get whatever it is their little hearts desire.

granted, alcohol is involved, so maybe these folks are nicer when they arent drinking, but i think most are just as entitled and completely lacking the understanding that the world doesnt revolve around them.

i dont want to paint an entire generation with too broad a brush here. i just think its particularly evident/bad in this generation as they are also the first real internet generation. all of us are starting to move in this direction now that we've been accustomed to wifi on planes, googling the answer to literally any question conceivable, amazon and other deliveries to our door, and the instant gratification of internet piracy/movies/music/porn/etc.

we are all being infantilized in a sense as the internet enables us to have things either frictionless or even on demand. my baby boy gets hungry- he cries like a banshee- we rush to feed/change/hold him until he stops.

he doesnt care if its raining, im sick, if its out of my control or if its someone else's fault i cant get him food immediately, etc. because hes a baby.

the parallels are significant. its a problem for all modern society. no idea how to fix it. just noting that the younger you are the more likely you are to have grown up with on-demand satisfaction being the norm/expected.

 

[myndflyte]

Maybe it's just my zip code, and lack of an operating local warehouse (soon to change) but Amazon has been one of the worst with regard to "instant gratification" IME. Too often an order will sit for days with no shipping confirmation. Have lost count of how many times I've had an order deliver before it even shows to have shipped.

Yeah it probably helps I have a distribution center about an hour south of me.

@SanPancho you make some good points. I think something else the internet has done is reduce the amount of face to face or even voice to voice interaction that people have these days. I wonder if a person that says nasty things in an email/online would do the same over the phone to the owner or even face to face. The anonymity that the internet provides doesn't help the situation.

 

[cubalz]

Bobby, your customer service and shipping has always been top notch. Here are some of the issues with people: ludicrous sense of entitlement but also they can hide behind anonymity which the internet provides. Most people would never say things to another persons' face in a million years but will gladly do it from 300 miles away.

 

[OpenSights]

I ordered three stout kits from some company on eBay. Guaranteed delivery 1/6/18. Still not here. I’m looking forward to trying one, but the world as we know it isn’t going to end. Saturday is going to be boys day and my 9y/o and I are going to brew 4 gallons of root beer from a kit and a stout. I have a chocolate chili stout if the ones on order don’t arrive in time.

My local USPS is well known for poor service.

AFA my customers go, they know my rules. Ice or 4”+ the cube doesn’t leave the driveway. If they have a backed up bathroom sink and I get a call with 6” of sewage in the basement, they don’t mind rescheduling.

 

[BruceH]

I'm old enough (gasp) to remember the era of mailorder "as seen on TV" ads where the fast talking dude at the end would say "allow 6 to 8 weeks for delivery". Now, I realize we're in the same day Amazon Prime delivery era so we've come a long way.

I got an email today from a disgruntled customer who is upset that USPS estimated delivery yesterday but it's tracking several states away. It's obvious that USPS made a gross sorting error and it's taking longer than expected. I understand being disappointed about that. I've been on the receiving end of that many times.

What really took me back was the closing line of the email. "Will think twice before ordering from you again."

I replied with an explanation of what likely happened and that I was disappointed that he'd consider not using me as a vendor in the future due to a shipping carrier mistake. On what planet is this kind of opinion reasonable?

PSA to everyone. When you fire off an email to a vendor, please understand that it's a human on the other end. I put in 70+ hours a week trying to make everyone as happy as possible. I'm honored to have this career but there are days when I get two or three of these people busting my balls for similar issues.

Ok, just venting. Shots all around!

The bad vibes are being directed your way for something that is out of your control. Let the other party keep the bad vibes.

All too often in today's society there are those who will try to manipulate a situation for their own advantage. Don't know if that's the case here but I wouldn't be surprised if they asked for some sort of compensation for the usps delay.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Teleportation should be a thing. Not so our crap gets to us faster, but so you can appear, slap, and disappear for those deserving. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberry!

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

@SanPancho you make some good points. I think something else the internet has done is reduce the amount of face to face or even voice to voice interaction that people have these days. I wonder if a person that says nasty things in an email/online would do the same over the phone to the owner or even face to face. The anonymity that the internet provides doesn't help the situation.

My fiance works in the healthcare industry, and has to deal with patients in over-the-phone and face-to-face encounters regularly... Often patients that she's known for years.

Based on her stories, it is absolutely NOT just an internet/anonymity thing.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

i dont want to paint an entire generation with too broad a brush here. i just think its particularly evident/bad in this generation as they are also the first real internet generation. all of us are starting to move in this direction now that we've been accustomed to wifi on planes, googling the answer to literally any question conceivable, amazon and other deliveries to our door, and the instant gratification of internet piracy/movies/music/porn/etc.

I was going to accuse you of a "GET OFF MY LAWN!" comment here, but you're in SF where nobody can afford enough room to have a lawn

 

[jleiii]

I blame your local USPS sorting facility. My last order went to CA enroute from north jersey to south/central jersey. And if they don't mishandle it it still takes 2 days for a 1 hour driving distance. Before they 'streamlined' priority mail, or some such process change it was 1 day.
I own a small mfg business, and the USPS facility in Philly can be a black hole for up to a week. UPS gnd for us is 1 day for south to VA, west to OH, and I believe north into CT. Yeah, its 25-50% more, but rarely is late, or lost.

 

[jekeane]

I have had very good experiences ordering from you and most online homebrew stores.

In general I only order specialty type items that my local shop can't stock.

I have fussed (politely) at a few companies for their delivery practices and stopped using them since. They were all repeat offenders with company policies that say 2 day shipping guaranteed and the packages arrived a week and a half later. If I make a order on a Sunday and you say it will take 2 days to get to me it should be at my house by the end of the week unless there is a natural or store disaster.

Amazon expectations are unreal for any homebrew shop (except maybe the one Inbev owns...)

 

[Pappers_]

My fiance works in the healthcare industry, and has to deal with patients in over-the-phone and face-to-face encounters regularly... Often patients that she's known for years.

Based on her stories, it is absolutely NOT just an internet/anonymity thing.

Agreed, the deterioration of general civility is a big issue, at both the inter-personal and societal levels, imho. Somehow, its become ok or even a positive to be a rude jackass.

 

[SanPancho]

I was going to accuse you of a "GET OFF MY LAWN!" comment here, but you're in SF where nobody can afford enough room to have a lawn

Not true. I havea deeded rear lawn in the new condos we are building. Suck it SF real estate market!

I really dont want to sound like a crazy old coot. But i really do think this is a generational distinction. And as i studied demographics at UC Berkeley im not just talking out of my ass here. There really is a changing level of expectation as we become more technolgy-reliant. My son is 18 months and he looks confused when he couldn’t swipe the ipad to get to his baby videos - it was frozen. At what point does that become annoyance/anger and hes the little **** talking smack about Apple on the internet? He will grow up in a world where he can have information/media/entertainment at his instant desire, food/booze/weed at his door in under 30 minutes, his laundry picked up and returned, shopping delivered the next day, and a car to take him wherever he wants at anytime of the day or night. What happens when that person suddenly doesnt get what they want when they want it?

I also agree that the decrease in face to face or at least verbal/phone communications isn’t helping. The risk that you may get your ass beat has a strong inverse correlation with tendency to be an a hole.

So in that light, i prpose that if the Big Cheese wants to really Make America Great Again he needs to tell DARPA to drop everything and work all-out on Teleportation-based ***** slaps. I think a small, highly trained team of teleporting drag queens and/or old black grandmothers could ***** slap american back into civility.

@TANSTAAFB you are a genius Sir.

 

[Pappers_]

I got an email today from a disgruntled customer who is upset that USPS estimated delivery yesterday but it's tracking several states away. It's obvious that USPS made a gross sorting error and it's taking longer than expected. I understand being disappointed about that. I've been on the receiving end of that many times.

Bias disclosure - my youngest son is 23 and has worked for UPS for three years and is now a full-time driver and teamster. He gets paid well enough to support himself, gets full benefits and is treated decently. He works like a dog, though - his days are never shorter than 10 hours and often more. But for a young man who did not want to go to school, its a very good job.

That being said, I often ask vendors to ship me items via UPS for two reasons: my experiences have been good (they deliver to my office, they will put packages on my back porch, their tracking system is great and dependable, when I have had trouble they resolve it fairly and quickly) and because they treat their workers well.

If UPS isn't available, I'll go with USPS, but have had a few issues with them, mostly having to do with my local neighborhood post office.

You might consider using UPS instead of USPS.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Yeah, that's a customer that "doesn't get it". Kinda funny, I've had three recent bad experiences with the handling of packages sent USPS. One purchase from Amazon was shipped from California to Utah, by way of Tennessee. The second was a t-shirt shipped from The Bruery in California to Utah, but it also made a trip through the East coast before making its way to Utah. Last one was this week, eBay-purchased parts to upgrade my fermentation chamber. That package made it straight to Utah, but spent three days here going from one side of the valley to the other and back before it was finally delivered. I just figure if something is shipped USPS, I'm probably saving money because their rates are lower, but they definitely don't have as good a track record or as good of tracking info as UPS and FedEx. But that's not the vendor's fault. In fact, I appreciate it when vendors offer multiple shipping options, including USPS.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

So in that light, i prpose that if the Big Cheese wants to really Make America Great Again he needs to tell DARPA to drop everything and work all-out on Teleportation-based ***** slaps. I think a small, highly trained team of teleporting drag queens and/or old black grandmothers could ***** slap american back into civility.

@TANSTAAFB you are a genius Sir.

And you, Sir SanPancho, have made a good idea brilliant. A teleporting ***** slap squad of drag queens and old black grandmothers...now THAT'S a world I'd like to live in! [emoji16][emoji482]

 

[Roland_deschain]

My wife and I are self employed as dog groomers. Just yesterday I needed to reschedule some dogs for the wife as she was VERY ill and needed to rest. 9out of the 10 were fine with it, but the one kept on about how this was unprofessional and was very inconvenient for her..........

 

[Murphys_Law]

My wife and I are self employed as dog groomers. Just yesterday I needed to reschedule some dogs for the wife as she was VERY ill and needed to rest. 9out of the 10 were fine with it, but the one kept on about how this was unprofessional and was very inconvenient for her..........

Well come on, man! You can't expect the customer to actually wish your wife good health and simply reschedule, can you! Geez...that is so 1940's!

 

[schematix]

To be fair, you will also be judged by the performance of your business partners. I can't speak to your experience with the USPS as a whole, but personally I've had far more issues receiving USPS packages than UPS/FedEx. My USPS packages always arrived beat to hell, while my UPS packages generally look like someone took it off a store shelf and put it on my porch. I know when I order from you (which i've done quit a bit of) that i need to be thinking 2-3 weeks ahead, or be willing to shell out another $10-20 for shipping if its urgent.

If I have a deadline to get something, i will choose the vendor who offers UPS or FedEx at a reasonable rate. If it's something I can wait for though then i'll hope for the best and go USPS. More often than not it's just fine.

Amazon is FAR from perfect as well. They give 'Guaranteed Delivery by' dates at checkout. In my experience it's 50/50, but when they're late, they refund all the shipping charges, even when it's not their fault.

Customers can be real ashholes sometimes!

 

[passedpawn]

Yea, bobby's right 100%, but this is a new age of shopping and best to get onboard or get left behind. Shipping is a big deal with online shopping. It's THE deal. IMO (and I'm no businessman) the thing that made Jeff Bezos a gazillionaire was getting a handle on shipping times and costs. It's the main impediment to online shopping. Remember when he was just selling books?

I don't know the answer for small online sites. Maybe there's no answer right now. Sure, you can just brush it off and blame the shipper (that's the truth). But you'll lose customers, because there is a new norm, like it or not. Maybe sell through Amazon? No idea what that entails.

 

[jleiii]

Maybe sell through Amazon? No idea what that entails.

We used to do this when they had their 'pay per click' model. When they stopped that we were left behind, although it was barely a few % of sales. Now you can sign up to sell direct, or through the 'Fulfilled by Amazon' program. The former does have benefit over your own website (the cust pays Amazon, and Amazon pays you minus fees, but they set the shipping charge IIRC, you still have to process and ship it), plus putting you in front of a gazillion people, but many will skip you for the instant gratification that FBA can provide. For us the FBA program does not really help. We manufacture every item we sell (glass tube heating elements), and would need to build and ship 25-50 (or more?) of every item we contract for, to sit on their shelf, plus pay rental on that space. We know our hot sellers, but it would still be a HUGE investment to stock their shelves. We're still debating if we will do either.

 

[BruceH]

To be fair, you will also be judged by the performance of your business partners. I can't speak to your experience with the USPS as a whole, but personally I've had far more issues receiving USPS packages than UPS/FedEx. My USPS packages always arrived beat to hell, while my UPS packages generally look like someone took it off a store shelf and put it on my porch. I know when I order from you (which i've done quit a bit of) that i need to be thinking 2-3 weeks ahead, or be willing to shell out another $10-20 for shipping if its urgent.

If I have a deadline to get something, i will choose the vendor who offers UPS or FedEx at a reasonable rate. If it's something I can wait for though then i'll hope for the best and go USPS. More often than not it's just fine.

Amazon is FAR from perfect as well. They give 'Guaranteed Delivery by' dates at checkout. In my experience it's 50/50, but when they're late, they refund all the shipping charges, even when it's not their fault.

Customers can be real ashholes sometimes!

I avoid everything Amazon if I can. Many reasons but mainly I don't like purchasing from a middleman for a middleman for a middleman, et al.

The USPS thing must be regional. It's my preferred method of shipping if it will fit in a Priority Mail flat rate box.

True story and it's happened more than a few times. UPS will have the package at the local facility and put it on the truck for delivery but it's a day or two before it's supposed to be delivered. At the end of the day they will update tracking info from "out for delivery" to "returned to xxxxx facility due to not delivery date".

On the other hand FedEx delivers on Saturday and they have no problem giving me faster service than what was paid for.

 

[mongoose33]

One thing that is very different is the ability of consumers to express their dissatisfaction online. Yelp, dedicated forums like this one--not too many businesses can afford to have very much negative feedback online. Same thing with reviews at places such as Amazon.

On balance, I think that's resulted in better service. In a way, it's not terribly different from what we see in a small town with face-to-face interaction with local merchants and tradespeople. Whereas once we knew people personally by their reputations, today we know them by their online reviews.

 

[schematix]

One thing that is very different is the ability of consumers to express their dissatisfaction online. Yelp, dedicated forums like this one--not too many businesses can afford to have very much negative feedback online.

So true.

In fact i had the absolute worst experience in my entire life with Auber Instruments. Years later it still boils my blood. Evil, crooked, worthless mthfckrs. They were so awful to me i still can't help but tell everyone on these boards what pieces of garbage they are. I hope they go out of business for what they did to me. Crooks.

OK deep breath. Nope.... not enough: worthless mthfckrs.

 

[Inkleg]

So true.

In fact i had the absolute worst experience in my entire life with Auber Instruments. Years later it still boils my blood. Evil, crooked, worthless mthfckrs. They were so awful to me i still can't help but tell everyone on these boards what pieces of garbage they are. I hope they go out of business for what they did to me. Crooks.

OK deep breath. Nope.... not enough: worthless mthfckrs.

Interesting as I had great customer service from Auber Insturments years ago. I had a SS braided pid cable arrive with a kink in it and wires poking through. A quick email and a picture and I had a new one in my mailbox two days later with a postage paid envelope to send the other back in.

 

[Pappers_]

That's odd, I order routinely from Farmhouse and they ship via UPS and i'd estimate that 75% of the time UPS delivers before the estimated date of delivery. Often the day after it was shipped.

. . . True story and it's happened more than a few times. UPS will have the package at the local facility and put it on the truck for delivery but it's a day or two before it's supposed to be delivered. At the end of the day they will update tracking info from "out for delivery" to "returned to xxxxx facility due to not delivery date".

On the other hand FedEx delivers on Saturday and they have no problem giving me faster service than what was paid for.

 

[MaxStout]

I often use comments as a crowd-sourcing tool to get a rough idea of an online product--if there is a large number of reviews overall (for statistical validity). If there are 25 reviews and most are 4 and 5-star, I don't pay much heed to the one or two 1-star reviews, as those are probably outliers, some disgruntled customers. I pay attention to the 3-stars, as those are often well-articulated critiques that may be helpful and not necessarily make it a deal-breaker to me. Of course, some people may hone in on the few negative reviews. That's why a bad review can impact an online vendor. It's unfortunate, but no vendor is going to please everybody, and the ones who are unhappy now have a platform to air their grievances.

 

[schematix]

Interesting as I had great customer service from Auber Insturments years ago. I had a SS braided pid cable arrive with a kink in it and wires poking through. A quick email and a picture and I had a new one in my mailbox two days later with a postage paid envelope to send the other back in.

No doubt they handle the simple shipping and product defects just fine. My situation was a bit more complex due to the volume of stuff i had purchased from them. They really screwed up an enclosure i bought from them and wouldn't take responsibility for it (wrong size holes and holes in wrong location). Long story short, when i talked to them on the phone they hung up on me and refused to communicate further even via e-mail (for like a week IIRC). Wasn't until I disputed the entire charge with my credit card company that they came back to the table. Still didn't resolve to my satisfaction either.

 

[Bobby_M]

I've been reflecting on this a few more days and have come up with some observations.

First, it seems to happen more during high volume times and around holidays but the truth is, negative situations are still happening at about the .1% rate but it's just more often due to the higher order rates. I have to keep that in perspective.

As the owner of the company, I have to especially work to keep from responding in a defensive way. When I put those 70-80 hour weeks in (now the norm), I have a shorter fuse than I normally would. I may react as if the disgruntled customer should know better that the 99.9% satisfaction rate I have is due to all the hard hours I put in. Great, but their order was messed up somehow and it doesn't matter to them what I do for anyone else. This is so true and so hard to swallow at the same time.

I have to also consider that not everything is fair. Maybe the way it works is that I have to take that .1% and just eat it. If the customer ends up acting like an entitled brat about something, maybe you just take the loss instead of standing on principals or policy. As long as it's a rare, it's not going to affect anything really. It's just that principals matter to me as a person but that doesn't always make for good business.

Ok, enough self reflection and more example.

I list First Class Postage as an option but I'm extra careful to be clear that it's slow, unpredictable, and although they do put tracking scans on them, it's not great. It's also not insurable so if it's lost I have nothing to fall back on. I offer this because people ask for it due to how many tiny orders come in because someone forgot one close nipple. On a daily basis, I get calls asking why it's taking so long (like 5 days across the country). I usually just respond with a link to the shipping policy page.

This week I heard from a customer over 800 miles away upset because the pack of liquid yeast he ordered on New Year's Eve is just arriving now. I was concerned and then found that he selected First Class postage and didn't even request an ice pack. On principal, it was a poor choice. The way to really fix the situation would be to just eat the cost of yeast AND priority shipping and just get it out again. Ugh.. it's not fair but....

I'm rambling already but last thing. I remember posting this thread 9 years ago: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/holy-bad-customer-service-batman-stpats-of-texas.37406/

I'm not at all saying that they way I was treated by the vendor was right, but I am starting to understand just a little bit.