Unboxing the Nano from CO Brewing

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Horseflesh said:
I scorched my first batch, but just barely. You can taste if when it warms, but it's subtle. There was about 1 square inch of pure black on the element and it took a PBR soak and some scraping to remove it. Batch 2, pictured above, seemed fine and was pretty easy to clean. Whew!
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I'm about to do my batch on the system too, and want to avoid scorching it. What caused it? Any tips to avoid it?
 
molson said:
I'm about to do my batch on the system too, and want to avoid scorching it. What caused it? Any tips to avoid it?
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IMO, the wort can't get recirculated fast enough to avoid it to some extent. I spent a while Sunday scrubbing and soaking my element to still not get all the crust off. I am still on the fence about how awesome or mediocre this system is. Tempted to use the system for my HLT and BK and continue to use my old cooler as the MT and batch sparge again. Haven't thrown in the towel just yet.

I was hoping for a single kettle system, no sparging and ability to go above 1.050 for a 10 gallon batch and that is not possible.
 
I don't have this system, rather my own recirculating eBIAB setup. When do you think things are getting scorched? Do you dial the power level back on the element at all during your process?
 
molson said:
I'm about to do my batch on the system too, and want to avoid scorching it. What caused it? Any tips to avoid it?
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Keep a really close eye on the level of liquid outside the basket. Or get up to temp, shut element off, and put the lid on it.

30Bones said:
IMO, the wort can't get recirculated fast enough to avoid it to some extent. I spent a while Sunday scrubbing and soaking my element to still not get all the crust off. I am still on the fence about how awesome or mediocre this system is. Tempted to use the system for my HLT and BK and continue to use my old cooler as the MT and batch sparge again. Haven't thrown in the towel just yet.

I was hoping for a single kettle system, no sparging and ability to go above 1.050 for a 10 gallon batch and that is not possible.
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With the 25 gallon kettle that should be pretty easy. I just did it in my 20 gallon two brews ago no problem too, 1.061 no sparge and a 10 gallon batch. We did 1.072 last batch and held back 2 gallons, I poured it over the basket quick and was done. I'd say 1.060 is pretty easy with no sparge, 1.070 would be pushing it but doable.
 
02RedWS6TA said:
Keep a really close eye on the level of liquid outside the basket. Or get up to temp, shut element off, and put the lid on it.



With the 25 gallon kettle that should be pretty easy. I just did it in my 20 gallon two brews ago no problem too, 1.061 no sparge and a 10 gallon batch. We did 1.072 last batch and held back 2 gallons, I poured it over the basket quick and was done. I'd say 1.060 is pretty easy with no sparge, 1.070 would be pushing it but doable.
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Forgot to mention I target a fermenter volume of 11 gallons as well. I could dial that back to up my OG I guess. 20 gallon kettle here
 
jimyson said:
I don't have this system, rather my own recirculating eBIAB setup. When do you think things are getting scorched? Do you dial the power level back on the element at all during your process?
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I think I got minor scorching on my first batch because I had the element power on too high during the boil... about 75%. On my second batch, with boil at 60% (and about 7.5 gal in the kettle) I only got one small brown spot as in my photo, and that appears to be fine.

In both batches I was using the pump pretty aggressively, but saw good motion in the mash... so I don't think I starved the pump and exposed the element.

This brings up another topic which I have not yet broached on the thread because I don't think there are other users here with the touchscreen... I'm wondering if there's a bug in the anti-scorch boil feature. It is also possible I just have incorrect expectations for a 5500W 20 gallon electric kettle, so I am really curious what you PID users are experiencing.

This is how boiling works with the touchscreen: you put in a target temperature which is a few degrees under boil, and an element power percentage. When it hits the target, it reduces element power from 100% to the cruise value. That is pretty cool, right?

However, even testing with water, I could not actually get my kettle to 212F. I could barely hit 210F with 80% element power and just 8 gallons of water!

The boil feature definitely reduces power when it hits the target temperature... You can hear the element get quieter and the temperature stops climbing so quickly. But I wonder if there's a bug in the software and it's not doing exactly what it says it's doing.

I was so surprised that I could not easily boil water that I verified my true boiling point (211.8F), verified water temperature with a Thermapen, verified voltage at the wall socket, and verified voltage at the element connection on the control box. I also verified the time to change water temperature by a certain amount, to make sure I was getting 5500W of juice into the kettle. Everything looked fine.

Then, I did my first batch and chose 75% power to maintain boil. That was apparently too much, as I got a burned spot... but it also didn't get the wort temperature above 208-209F.

Second batch, I backed down to 60%, which got the kettle to 207-208F, but no objectionable burning.

In all cases the water or wort is definitely roiling, and you can see vapor bubbles coming off the element. But the temperature of the whole body of liquid was nowhere near the actual boiling point.

I decided not to worry about it too much. They make beer in Colorado and the boiling point is just 203F. But I wonder why my kettle doesn't get as hot as I expect. Is it just because it's an uninsulated kettle with a giant surface area in a 56F environment? It could be that simple.
 
I've had my system 20 gal/hard sided basket since June this year. Although I've only brewed on it twice, I'm loving it. Brew day is about 4.5 hours with step mashes. I came from a 3V Hermes electric brewery with diy panel, which now has 2x the pids and sensors I need for this simple set up.

I think I have my water absorption rate and boil off rate down, my efficiency I'm not sure because I missed my target volumes both times. I really like this type of system and wish I would have been able to step from propane to this instead of building a value conscious version of the electric brewery.

I'm chilling with a 50' ss immersion chiller, and having decent success, 1/2 hour or so to 68F. This thread has been a good source of info and look forward to others experiences.
 
did anybody ever sort out the max capacity of the grain basket? I know there was some discrepancy about the 15g vs 20g mash capacity on BS and COs profile. Just interested to find out what the top limits are (without having to do a sparge).
 
sgraham602 said:
did anybody ever sort out the max capacity of the grain basket? I know there was some discrepancy about the 15g vs 20g mash capacity on BS and COs profile. Just interested to find out what the top limits are (without having to do a sparge).
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For the 20 it'll completely depend on your end batch Size but let's stick at 10 gallons. Id say you're going to max around 28lbs for a finished 11 gallons of wort. 30-31 would be possible but you'd really have to be on your game and no flaked oats or wheat. At least in my experience, 8 brews since August.

I have a 30lb grain bill with hopes of 15 gallons of wort at the end scheduled for Dec 17th but I'll be doing a sparge.
 
anyone received their COBS with the touch screen panel? I'd be interested to hear how it works. After using my system for a year, there are one or two things I wish I'd done differently. Didn't have the option for the touchscreen when I ordered, but I'm not sure I would have gone that way anyhow.
 
I have the touchscreen. To make a long story short, it works OK, but it has a number of very irritating bugs and user interface issues.

For example, when you are editing a recipe, there is a "clear" button. If you push "clear" it immediately, and without warning or request for confirmation, deletes all recipes in the computer. There's no good reason for a "nuke all my data" button to be in the recipe edit mode, danger close to the "save" button.

There's another place where you can enter a target temperature for boiling. When it hits the target, it drops element power to a maintenance level you specify. Nice! But the target temp field will only accept values up to 100. So, if you want to operate in F and not C, you need to change the preferences to C, enter a boil temperature like 99, and then switch back to F. So, there's easy workaround, but it's definitely a bug.

You can enter all of your hop steps and timers into a recipe, and it will beep and put up a message so you know what to drop into the pot. This is cool. What is not cool is that the screen doesn't show you a countdown to your next step. It only shows the longest timer, the boil time. So you STILL need to have a timer in your pocket, unless you are sitting by the kettle the entire time. Which, in a commercial setting, could be the case. Not great for a home user, though.

I could go on. I actually sent them about 4 pages of detailed bug/usability reports with repro steps and suggested changes. I know they are making the software themselves and I hope they keep improving it.

That all said I am glad I got the touchscreen. It's easy to set up a multi-step mash, and really cool to be able to walk away from the kettle for more than an hour while it does the magic for you. Setting a PID manually isn't exactly hard, but it is sure nice to automate things.

Here's a thread where I posted pictures: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7765196
 
I haven't heard from Tim, but to be fair I prefaced my big bug report with, "this isn't a complaint, I am just trying to help, and I don't need a point by point reply." I didn't want to sound like an angry customer, because I'm not. If they actually evaluate the material I sent, that is all the thanks I need.

I do think they can save themselves effort by investing a little time into things like writing a manual... Just a page, even. I had to ask a question on the forum about something really basic, which turned out to require an invisible button press... Write that stuff down once and send it with the unit, instead of fielding questions over and over, ya know? But I think they are more focused on welding than software. Can't blame them if that's where the money is.

On their official forums I did suggest making an official release thread listing changes, and an official bug reporting thread. No nibbles on either. They may be reluctant to do things like that because a few loud customers could cost them a lot of time, or even generate ill will if that time isn't invested. I understand the challenges, having worked in similar circumstances.

When I buy a gadget, my philosophy is that I better be happy with what I get and software upgrades are a bonus. I would certainly like them to improve the PLC's most irritating issues, but even if they never do, I am glad I have it.
 
Horseflesh said:
I haven't heard from Tim, but to be fair I prefaced my big bug report with, "this isn't a complaint, I am just trying to help, and I don't need a point by point reply." I didn't want to sound like an angry customer, because I'm not. If they actually evaluate the material I sent, that is all the thanks I need.

I do think they can save themselves effort by investing a little time into things like writing a manual... Just a page, even. I had to ask a question on the forum about something really basic, which turned out to require an invisible button press... Write that stuff down once and send it with the unit, instead of fielding questions over and over, ya know? But I think they are more focused on welding than software. Can't blame them if that's where the money is.

On their official forums I did suggest making an official release thread listing changes, and an official bug reporting thread. No nibbles on either. They may be reluctant to do things like that because a few loud customers could cost them a lot of time, or even generate ill will if that time isn't invested. I understand the challenges, having worked in similar circumstances.

When I buy a gadget, my philosophy is that I better be happy with what I get and software upgrades are a bonus. I would certainly like them to improve the PLC's most irritating issues, but even if they never do, I am glad I have it.
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Such logic.
 
sgraham602 said:
anyone received their COBS with the touch screen panel? I'd be interested to hear how it works. After using my system for a year, there are one or two things I wish I'd done differently. Didn't have the option for the touchscreen when I ordered, but I'm not sure I would have gone that way anyhow.
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I have a "Down Under" on order. What would you have done differently besides the touchscreen? I didn't go with the touchscreen, I like the simplicity of manual controls.
 
jahlinux said:
I have a "Down Under" on order. What would you have done differently besides the touchscreen? I didn't go with the touchscreen, I like the simplicity of manual controls.
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I had them build a track on mine similar to the bigger systems that they make, that way I can slide the mash basket away from the kettle and lower it onto the ground. It works great (one I added counter weights), but the only downside is that you have to remove all of the fittings in order to get the kettle off of the stand. Makes clean up a little tough.
 
Could you post up a picture of your setup. :)


sgraham602 said:
I had them build a track on mine similar to the bigger systems that they make, that way I can slide the mash basket away from the kettle and lower it onto the ground. It works great (one I added counter weights), but the only downside is that you have to remove all of the fittings in order to get the kettle off of the stand. Makes clean up a little tough.
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Have scroched two brews in a row now. Ditching the straight 304 stainless element for a ripple 804 element. Going to go nuts if I ruin another 15 gallons.

99% it's happening during the boil.
 
Will do. I've added an agitator to deal with any stuck mash. So 99% it's happening either during the heat up or boil. Edit: it's the 5500 watt ulwd element from electric brew supply. The 804 stainless version, not the shiny 304.

Heat up I run at 100%, maybe 20 gallons is too much for this element? Dial back to 70% once at boil until it boils enough off I can turn it to 80% which is where my boil off calculations using the CBS water load thing works the best. Twice now about half way through the batch I could smell the scorched element.

Agitator is in the newest video. So is the defeat in my voice. Paddles are a little bit big for the motor speed but doing some modifications and will run the batch one last time with the new element and new paddles.

https://youtu.be/6tkWYO19iyg
 
I've had good success with my 20 gallon system. My procedures / techniques are improving with every brew session. One change I made right away was to replace all the barbed hose connections with cam locks. I think it's easier to use the cam locks to move my hose around than to wrestle with tri-clamps.

Oh - important safety tip: when you're cleaning your basket, don't casually run your hand around the bottom edge. Check for stray wires sticking out from the screen. They can really tear you up - ask me how I know...
 
akgator said:
I've had good success with my 20 gallon system. My procedures / techniques are improving with every brew session. One change I made right away was to replace all the barbed hose connections with cam locks. I think it's easier to use the cam locks to move my hose around than to wrestle with tri-clamps.

Oh - important safety tip: when you're cleaning your basket, don't casually run your hand around the bottom edge. Check for stray wires sticking out from the screen. They can really tear you up - ask me how I know...
Click to expand...

I picked up a cheap electric power washer to use in the brew area. Just throw the 15* tip on and run it around the edge with the basket upside down. It knocks the little stranglers stuck it there right out. It also makes it way easier to clean everything up.
 
pgk said:
Could you post up a picture of your setup. :)
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:mug:

ImageUploadedByHome Brew1463447057.390698.jpg
 
Does anyone on this forum have the 15 gallon CBS Nano Home system? I am torn between ordering the 15 or 20 gallon system. I brew 6.5 gallon recipes so I get a full 5 gallons in the kegs. The largest grain bill I currently have for my recipes is about 17 pounds. Will the 15 gallon system handle that without needing to sparge? Could I brew a medium gravity 10-11 gallon batch with the 15 gallon system.

I don't want to have a largeer kettle if I really do not need it.
 
Irish-Brewer said:
Does anyone on this forum have the 15 gallon CBS Nano Home system? I am torn between ordering the 15 or 20 gallon system. I brew 6.5 gallon recipes so I get a full 5 gallons in the kegs. The largest grain bill I currently have for my recipes is about 17 pounds. Will the 15 gallon system handle that without needing to sparge? Could I brew a medium gravity 10-11 gallon batch with the 15 gallon system.

I don't want to have a largeer kettle if I really do not need it.
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I have a CBS 15 gallon system and just did a Heady clone last weekend grain bill came in at 18 total pounds and there were no issues . I scale all my recipes to get 6.5 gallons into the fermentor . Have not done any 10 or 12 gal batches as of yet , but i think 12 would be rather ambitious when you factor in total water volume and grain space .
 
I asked them the same question and they definitely recommended going larger. You can still make 5 gallon batches or double them with no issues. And big grain bill smaller batches will also not be an issue. My 2 cents
 
Thanks. I was concerned that doing 6.5 gallon batches (in the 20 gallon kettle) which would require about 8 or so gallons of water in the kettle would create an issue since i was guessing about 2 or 3 gallons of that would be below the mash basket. I did not know if there would be enough liquid above the basket to get the mash recirculating and cover all the grains. Still trying to decide between CBS or Brew-Boss but I am leaning towards CBS. As previously stated in a previous post, I would probably request that CBS use an ULWD element. Maybe the Camco 02965 that is recommended by Kal at The Electric Brewery.
 
I have the 20 gal Nano and I have to put in 4 gallons of water to get the bottom of the basket wet. I've been able to do 5 gallon batches OK, but I did have to rig an extension on the recirc arm.
 
Horseflesh said:
I have the 20 gal Nano and I have to put in 4 gallons of water to get the bottom of the basket wet. I've been able to do 5 gallon batches OK, but I did have to rig an extension on the recirc arm.
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With that in mind are you able to keep the efficiency in the high 70s to low 80's?
 
My best mash efficiency so far has been 72%. However, I am crushing at the LHBS. They tell me the gap is .045, which is what CBS recommends... but there is no way to know what their mill actually produces.
 
Irish-Brewer said:
Thanks. I was concerned that doing 6.5 gallon batches (in the 20 gallon kettle) which would require about 8 or so gallons of water in the kettle would create an issue since i was guessing about 2 or 3 gallons of that would be below the mash basket. I did not know if there would be enough liquid above the basket to get the mash recirculating and cover all the grains. Still trying to decide between CBS or Brew-Boss but I am leaning towards CBS. As previously stated in a previous post, I would probably request that CBS use an ULWD element. Maybe the Camco 02965 that is recommended by Kal at The Electric Brewery.
Click to expand...

That's what I ordered to replace the stock element, will be here tomorrow, hoping to brew Wednesday morning.
 
02RedWS6TA said:
That's what I ordered to replace the stock element, will be here tomorrow, hoping to brew Wednesday morning.
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How hard is it to change it out to the new one? Do you have to adjust anything with the PID?
 
Those were my questions too.

The stock element is assembled with a triclamp holding the element into thou housing, so it looks easy to take apart... Might be harder to put it back together... Looking forward to someone else's pictures. :)
 
fireantz said:
Tried searching this to find it but what is the biggest grain bill / OG you can do for a 10/11 gallon batch in in the 20 gal kettle setup?
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Looking at my notes it seems like the most I've done is a 25.75 lb grain bill for a 10g batch. FWIW, my largest 5g was a Wee Heavy that was 22.5 lb grain bill which I think was a serious challenge but I managed to pull it off.

I also think I calculated that under the basket was about 4g of water/space. However it should be noted that this was for a full volume mash. I'm not sure what would happen if I tried to hold back water for a sparge. If you wanted to do the math I assume you could calculate the mash thickness by subtracting 4g from the total. Maybe you could use an online calculator and enter a 16g kettle as the starting point, then start adding grains to see where it maxes out before you get too thick of a mash.
 
After a long break I finally had the time to brew again with some new parts. The brew session seemed to go better than expected but I am not sure yet what made the difference. Some of this might help with the recent posts I've seen so here is a quick summary.

Over the holidays I collected 4 major toys. First was a Monster Mill 3 to replace my Barley Crusher. Then I got two items from SS Brewtech including some brew buckets and the mash manifold. The brew buckets obviously have no effect on my brew day numbers but I have to say I do like them so far. But I have to reserve judgement until I take a batch all the way to the end. I also got a King Cobra IC from Jaded which doesn't affect my mash numbers but does help me avoid some frustrations I was having with my plate chiller and change some of my post boil numbers.

I did see a boost in my numbers this batch but I am not sure if it was the new mill or the new manifold. I suspect it must be the mill. The manifold worked well and I was able to run full speed during the entire mash. But I have to say that I also used a full pound of rice hulls. This has become a standard for me and until I run more batches it will stay that way.

In response to some recent posts let me say this was a 5g stout recipe with large grain bill of 18 lbs. As I said before I did include 1 lb of rice hulls but I was surprised that I ran the pump full speed the entire time. I did fiddle a ton with the new manifold before I left it alone. At first I had it near the bottom but then my mash was nearly dry on top so I fished it up until it was about 1 inch below the mash surface at which point it worked great. I assume this helped with my mash temp but I didn't test that. It should be pointed out that the SS Brewtech manifold has a very narrow inlet of 3/8" which I assume helps avoid pump/scorching issues.

What I need to figure out in the future is which variable has helped the most in my mash. I might be able to cut back on the rice hulls if the mill or manifold is doing a better job. Hard to tell without some trial and error. Plus I need to see what happens with a 10g batch. Hope this helps others.
 

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