Two step mash, will this work?

[Simonh82]

I like the dry finish that the highly attenuating US-05/West coast ale yeasts give but I like the fruity esters I get with traditional English ale yeasts, which generally finish sweeter.

I've made APAs and IPAs with a good wack of crystal malts which have attenuated well, finished quite dry but still retain a bit of sweetness and flavour from the crystal malt, which I like.

Could I essentially check all these boxes and get a dry beer with good attention and nice fruity esters and some crystal flavour? My thought is that by using a grain bill which has plenty of crystal malt and is mashed at a low temperature (62oC) for 45 min before raising it to 68oC for 25 min to ensure complete conversation. Then pitching an English ale yeast.

I tried a step mash on my last brew with a 20 minute rest at 62oC and then 40 minutes at 68oC. I saw an improvement in attenuated over the suggested figures for the yeast strain. With a longer rest at the low temperature could attenuation be improved further while still retains the crystal flavour and fruity esters?

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Simonh82]

Just giving this a little bump.

Any thoughts?

 

[TurnipGreen]

I'm mostly commenting so that some one with more experience replies. And I've been trying for the same thing.

On my last APA I mashed pretty low, I don't have my notes in front of me but I think it was around 142-145 for a long time. I also didn't have any older APA to directly compare. the low and long mash temp definitely got me a dryer beer. I feel like it sacrificed some of the body. I think my recipe had maybe a third of a pound of 60 L crystal malt. I think much more 60 L crystal would have darkened the beer more than I want. I was thinking about using more of a lighter crystal to buy back some body?

I also want to get more of tha English yeast profile, but I'm starting to think WLP023 is just a better choice over wlp002 or 007. I wish that was available year round.

 

[porterpounder]

Sounds reasonable. The flavors of crystal malts shouldn't be affected by rests one way or the other. The may be a bit fuller due to a drier finish, but if you're looking for a more defined, brighter flavored beer, then maybe play with the pH a bit to sharped things up. The ester formation with an English ale yeast also should not really be affected by step mashing as the ester formation is a result of fermenation temperature and/or yeast stresses. If you're looking for more crystal character, add more crystal malts. Try different levels of kiln to adjust th etypes of flavors that come through. Some malts such as caramunich can increase fruitiness slightly as well.

 

[RocketOtter]

I don't think a step mash as you have described is going to dry out the beer. To dry it out try mashing low and long like around 64ºC for at least 90 minutes (you can step it up without negative effects but that won't affect how dry it gets). 62ºC is a bit low but could work given enough time for the enzymes to do their thing. You could also add dextrose or table sugar to dry it out.

You can get good attenuation and fruity esters from english strains doing this but if they fall short just pitch in a good ole 'merican strain to get the fg down. There are various things you can do to increase ester production, google is your friend on that one.

Good attenuation shouldn't impact the crystal flavor. Many of the sugars in crystal malt are caramelized and nonfermentable.

 

[Simonh82]

Thanks everyone. I think I will give this a go on my next beer, which is planned for next weekend.

My intention is not to get over the top esters from the yeast, which I know I can influence be fermentation temperature. Rather just to get a pleasant ester profile similar to an English bitter and with a similar about of crystal flavour but with a drier finish than you usually get with an English strain.

I have some favourite strains which I really like but the normally finish at about 70% attenuation.

With a short rest at 62oC I managed to bump this to 73-74% on my last brew. I'm hoping I can increase this further with a longer rest at a low temperature.

 

[TurnipGreen]

I really like that wlp 023 Burton ale if you can wait until it's available again. I think it has a pretty unique flavor. Not sure if that's what you're going for.

 

[Horseshoot]

Going out on a limb here.... But for AMERICAN Pale Ales, and AMERICAN IPAs, I have decided that fruity flavors are not what is wanted. There are so many other styles that I can do this with. If making American Pales or IPAs, I shoot for a dry, very pale, hoppy concoction. In my case I shoot for not overly bitter, yet hoppy in flavor and nose. This is just my two cents worth.

Mike