Two Questions - Tasting? Oaking?

[SandorClegane]

First,

After primary fermentation of the Mead is complete, when racking it to the carboy for secondary fermentation, is it generally acceptable and/or expected to taste the Mead? Obviously I'd have to be sanitary about it. But that aside, is there a reason not to?

Thanks


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Second,

I ordered some medium toast American oak chips.

I've read some suggestions to boil the chips, dry them, then add them after racking to the carboy for secondary fermentation.

I've also received suggestion not to do this, but instead to simply re-toast the chips on a cookie sheet in the oven at 350 degrees Fahrenheit for 30 minutes, allow to cool, then add to the carboy.

What are you guys' thoughts on either of these suggestions, and/or any other suggestions you may have?

 

[Fathand]

1 I always use an non auto-siphon to transfer so I have no choice but to taste it. I don't believe there are any detrimental effects other than not having as much mead as you had a few seconds earlier.

2 I just downloaded a pdf a few days ago that goes into detail on oak and mead and the effects it has. It states the following....

"If you’re adding cubes to a wine or mead that has already dropped clear they recommend rinsing the oak cubes off with some warm distilled water to remove the wood dust (sawdust) that is produced by the cubes rubbing together in the packaging. Make sure you use distilled or filtered water that has no chlorine in it so as not to impart any chlorine flavor to your cubes. Boiling or simmering in hot water leeches off the oak characteristics and flavor that add to structure and will leave your end product lacking."

I have always just rinsed the cubes in vodka and have thrown them in.

 

[Golddiggie]

You can taste it once it's done fermenting if you want. I'd wait until you've racked it couple more times so that it's improved more. Depending on the OG that could be several more months. Chances are it will be in bulk for the better part of a year, or more. Also, unless you actually ADD more sugars you've just racked to a brite tank for it to start clearing. Plan to do that every 1-3 months until crystal clear. Do NOT bottle until it IS clear.

For the oak, if the mead is above 10% I'd just toss it in. I've done that before with solid results. Plan on more months of aging time after adding the oak too.

 

[SandorClegane]

You can taste it once it's done fermenting if you want. I'd wait until you've racked it couple more times so that it's improved more. Depending on the OG that could be several more months. Chances are it will be in bulk for the better part of a year, or more. Also, unless you actually ADD more sugars you've just racked to a brite tank for it to start clearing. Plan to do that every 1-3 months until crystal clear. Do NOT bottle until it IS clear.

For the oak, if the mead is above 10% I'd just toss it in. I've done that before with solid results. Plan on more months of aging time after adding the oak too.

I was only planning on racking to the secondary once, then letting it sit for couple of months before bottling.

Why do you say not to bottle until it is clear? And why rack multiple times?

I'm not being a smart ass, I literally want to know, since I'm new to this. Thanks.

 

[Golddiggie]

Need to know what you made. OG? FG? ABV%? Honey used? Nutrients? Batch size? Yeast used? When started? What did you do to make the must??

As for why we don't bottle before it's ready? Well, because it's not ready. :cross: I've found that a mead under 14% is best when let go at least 6-9 months before bottling. 14-18% is best when it goes at least a year. Over 18% look for 18+ months before bottling.

There are a few really good reasons for keeping it in bulk for a year or more. For one thing, you can make additions during that entire time as well as move it off when needed. You might decide that oaking for a month was more than you wanted. Bulk aging means it will mellow easier and more evenly. You'll also get more yeast/sediment to settle out during that time. The more that settles out in bulk the less you'll have in the bottles.

 

[SandorClegane]

Need to know what you made. OG? FG? ABV%? Honey used? Nutrients? Batch size? Yeast used? When started? What did you do to make the must??

As for why we don't bottle before it's ready? Well, because it's not ready. :cross: I've found that a mead under 14% is best when let go at least 6-9 months before bottling. 14-18% is best when it goes at least a year. Over 18% look for 18+ months before bottling.

There are a few really good reasons for keeping it in bulk for a year or more. For one thing, you can make additions during that entire time as well as move it off when needed. You might decide that oaking for a month was more than you wanted. Bulk aging means it will mellow easier and more evenly. You'll also get more yeast/sediment to settle out during that time. The more that settles out in bulk the less you'll have in the bottles.

I made a basic honey/water/yeast mead. 1 gallon honey, 4 gallons water, some yeast nutrition, and a packet of yeast (forget what yeast specifically, but one intended for mead).

If I were going to rack multiple times, each time lees settles on the bottom, would I need to ad camden tablets or something each time?

 

[Matrix4b]

Hello again,

Here's what I do with the oak:
1. I use chips, cubes work too, I don't have the money for spirals.
2. I just toss them in the secondary, usually when I know that I have at least 2 months of clearing to do but when it is mostly clear. I leave my chips in a month but I figure that at least 2 weeks is minimum for a mild effect. I have also found that 1 1/2 months is too much for me. It's a taste issue.
3. I like putting it in a muslin bag for easy removal, sometimes a few glass marbles to weigh it to the bottom.
4. I have made myself a Oaking wand out of a broken autosyphon. I chopped it off short to about 1 to 1 1/2 feet long, drilled 1/8 inch holes in it and then I put a string on the end and block up one end. Then I fill with my oak chips and drop in. Makes it easy to remove, a bit harder to get the oak out of the wand when done but I am not struggling with the mead and carboy at the time of removal.
5. I then after removal, sometimes rack and sometimes just wait 2 months till clear then bottle and age in the bottle.

Multiple rackings: No campden or additives for cleanlieness is needed but sanitize your gear before you do. Keep in mind the Must is about 10% at frirst racking, and doesn't need to be steriaized.

1. Your initial racking off of the primary to the secondary is the most important racking. It should be done when the fermentation slows way down. If you are using a hydrometer then I would rack at the point of no change in readings with a week or two inbetween. I usually go by visiual due to multiple rackings.
2. Racking from primary to secondary onto flavors helps preserve the flavors, this does neccessitate another racking to get it off of the flavorings such as fruit or spices. I also sometimes wait for settling after that racking and do so again when it stackes up a bit as this is the pulp that i missed the last time.
3. I have noticed that with multiple rackings the mead clears better and I can do more with it. Sometimes my racking looks like this: A. Primary B. Secondary on fruit C. Rack off of fruit D. Rack onto some sorbate for backsweetening, sometimes I back sweeten at this time as well. E. Rack onto oak F. No racking but removal of oak. G. Bottle, THEN age for 6 months to a year.

I like aging in the bottle due to the fact that I would like to make new batches so I want my carboys clear. This means that I don't Bulk Age like most do. This may be the the slight detrament of my mead but according to some when I bottle it I have aged it some alresdy. You see I wait until my mead is at the "Clear enough to read through" level prior to bottling. This is also a level where there is almost no sediment when I bottle.

I have discovered that it is a weird situation that the must will drop sediment and yeast to make more lees if I rack it about every 2 months or so. I try to time this with other things that I do but the fact is that the mead just gets clearer and drops quicker when I rack it more often. I end up losing a lot of volume, and that is the crux of it. The more you rack the more you lose in the racking. So rather than every month, I have settled on every 2 months or so. For some reason a suspended solution drops that suspension quicker when there is less of a concentration already in the carboy. I don't know how to explain it. Ofcourse when I backsweeten I am adding some water with the extra honey or other sweetening agent such as lactose or malto-dexterin.

I have found that it is also pleasing to the drinker of a bottle of mead when they finish it there is no yeast or yeasty taste at the end. Pure meady goodness is all they get.

As far as tasting, go ahead. I habitually take like 1/4 shot out when racking and taste it. Now don't put much stock in that tasting when you aren't finished with it, unless you have developed your palet to understand that the finished product wont taste like that. My first mead was a sweet show mead and when I bottled it it tasted like antiseptic but it aged out in about a year, fully came into flavor about 1 1/2 year after bottling. The sweetness does come back.

Be patient, you will have better brew. Ofcourse I lack some patients, which is why I wont brew less than a 5 gal batch. If I am going to take that long then I am going to have it for a while.

Happy Brewing
Matrix

 

[SandorClegane]

Hello again,

Here's what I do with the oak:
1. I use chips, cubes work too, I don't have the money for spirals.
2. I just toss them in the secondary, usually when I know that I have at least 2 months of clearing to do but when it is mostly clear. I leave my chips in a month but I figure that at least 2 weeks is minimum for a mild effect. I have also found that 1 1/2 months is too much for me. It's a taste issue.
3. I like putting it in a muslin bag for easy removal, sometimes a few glass marbles to weigh it to the bottom.
4. I have made myself a Oaking wand out of a broken autosyphon. I chopped it off short to about 1 to 1 1/2 feet long, drilled 1/8 inch holes in it and then I put a string on the end and block up one end. Then I fill with my oak chips and drop in. Makes it easy to remove, a bit harder to get the oak out of the wand when done but I am not struggling with the mead and carboy at the time of removal.
5. I then after removal, sometimes rack and sometimes just wait 2 months till clear then bottle and age in the bottle.

Multiple rackings: No campden or additives for cleanlieness is needed but sanitize your gear before you do. Keep in mind the Must is about 10% at frirst racking, and doesn't need to be steriaized.

1. Your initial racking off of the primary to the secondary is the most important racking. It should be done when the fermentation slows way down. If you are using a hydrometer then I would rack at the point of no change in readings with a week or two inbetween. I usually go by visiual due to multiple rackings.
2. Racking from primary to secondary onto flavors helps preserve the flavors, this does neccessitate another racking to get it off of the flavorings such as fruit or spices. I also sometimes wait for settling after that racking and do so again when it stackes up a bit as this is the pulp that i missed the last time.
3. I have noticed that with multiple rackings the mead clears better and I can do more with it. Sometimes my racking looks like this: A. Primary B. Secondary on fruit C. Rack off of fruit D. Rack onto some sorbate for backsweetening, sometimes I back sweeten at this time as well. E. Rack onto oak F. No racking but removal of oak. G. Bottle, THEN age for 6 months to a year.

I like aging in the bottle due to the fact that I would like to make new batches so I want my carboys clear. This means that I don't Bulk Age like most do. This may be the the slight detrament of my mead but according to some when I bottle it I have aged it some alresdy. You see I wait until my mead is at the "Clear enough to read through" level prior to bottling. This is also a level where there is almost no sediment when I bottle.

I have discovered that it is a weird situation that the must will drop sediment and yeast to make more lees if I rack it about every 2 months or so. I try to time this with other things that I do but the fact is that the mead just gets clearer and drops quicker when I rack it more often. I end up losing a lot of volume, and that is the crux of it. The more you rack the more you lose in the racking. So rather than every month, I have settled on every 2 months or so. For some reason a suspended solution drops that suspension quicker when there is less of a concentration already in the carboy. I don't know how to explain it. Ofcourse when I backsweeten I am adding some water with the extra honey or other sweetening agent such as lactose or malto-dexterin.

I have found that it is also pleasing to the drinker of a bottle of mead when they finish it there is no yeast or yeasty taste at the end. Pure meady goodness is all they get.

As far as tasting, go ahead. I habitually take like 1/4 shot out when racking and taste it. Now don't put much stock in that tasting when you aren't finished with it, unless you have developed your palet to understand that the finished product wont taste like that. My first mead was a sweet show mead and when I bottled it it tasted like antiseptic but it aged out in about a year, fully came into flavor about 1 1/2 year after bottling. The sweetness does come back.

Be patient, you will have better brew. Ofcourse I lack some patients, which is why I wont brew less than a 5 gal batch. If I am going to take that long then I am going to have it for a while.

Happy Brewing
Matrix

Wow, thanks for all that info. I read the whole thing from start to finish. Appreciate the time you put into writing this up. Thanks. Very helpful.

 

[Golddiggie]

Without knowing what yeast you used, you're probably going to end up with a DRY mead. at 12# of honey in a 5 gallon must, you probably had an OG of around 1.086. Since it also looks like you didn't bother to take an OG (NOT a good idea IMO/IME, doubly so with mead) you'll never really know now.

As already mentioned, give your FG tests at least 1-2 weeks between them before calling it a final gravity. I'd even go a full month between if there was any doubt.

Depending on the yeast (really important to know what you're using here, since you get a LOT from the yeast with mead) you're probably at FG. Especially since you're looking at only about 11.5% with that amount of honey in 5 gallons. Was that your intent?

Since it IS a low ABV mead, and we don't know the yeast, you'll probably want to give it both more time, and stabilize it before you bottle it up. I would still give it the better part of a year before you stabilize and bottle though.

For oaking, American oak is stronger in flavor. Hungarian (which I use) is more subtle and easier to get what you want, IME. I would probably start with an ounce of American oak, give it a month or two, then taste to see what to do next. Keep in mind, chips are less stable (flavor wise) than cubes, staves, spirals, or honeycombs. They're also more one dimensional in flavor. With the others, you'll get a more complex oak/wood addition to the batch.

I typically toss my wood into the batch loose. This means the cubes will have more freedom to move about and have their character extracted over the time. They'll still settle to the bottom, so there's no worries there. I also don't bother to do anything with the oak in any fermentation over about 8%. There's a high enough ABV level there to take care of pretty much anything. Since I use pre-packaged oak, I'm not too concerned. IF I have any doubt about the safety level of the oak, I boil up some water in the tea kettle and pour enough over the cubes to cover. Then I seal that jar to let it steep. Once it's done to room temperature, I leave it closed up until it's time to pitch. Then everything goes into the batch. Keep in mind, you want to use as little water as possible and include it in the pitch. Otherwise, you're leaving too much of what the wood will give the batch behind.

Right now, I have three mead batches bulk aging. All of them were started in early December (2011). Two are formulated to 14% and have been racked twice so far. The third is formulated for about 21% and has only been racked once. It's been a few months since I racked the 14% batches, so I might do them again this weekend. This time, I will reserve samples for flavor and SG readings. Since I use a refractometer, that means small samplings. I also move the mead (my beer too) via CO2 push. Which means far, far, far less chance of oxidization of the batches. I might rack the 21% batch in another month, or three. I plan on starting the flavor additions in that batch in the fall. It's going to be 18+ months in process before I even think about bottling it. The two 14% batches will be a minimum of 9-10 months, probably closer to 12, before I consider bottling them up. Even then, I'll have to taste them to see IF they're ready.

As for bottle aging, that's all well and good. Only issue I have is if it's not 100% ready for glass by then (good in it's own right) then I'm filling bottles with something that might never go to glass. IMO, that's a waste of more space than an aging vessel occupies. Since I ferment, and age, in stainless kegs, I don't worry about many things others do. I also have enough stainless kegs that I can let several batches age before I need to free one up (6 mead primaries, 3 beer primaries, 1 extra mead aging vessel, as well as two beer aging vessels).

 

[EndlessPurple]

Right now, I have three mead batches bulk aging. All of them were started in early December (2011). Two are formulated to 14% and have been racked twice so far. The third is formulated for about 21% and has only been racked once. It's been a few months since I racked the 14% batches, so I might do them again this weekend. This time, I will reserve samples for flavor and SG readings. Since I use a refractometer, that means small samplings. I also move the mead (my beer too) via CO2 push. Which means far, far, far less chance of oxidization of the batches. I might rack the 21% batch in another month, or three. I plan on starting the flavor additions in that batch in the fall. It's going to be 18+ months in process before I even think about bottling it. The two 14% batches will be a minimum of 9-10 months, probably closer to 12, before I consider bottling them up. Even then, I'll have to taste them to see IF they're ready.

As for bottle aging, that's all well and good. Only issue I have is if it's not 100% ready for glass by then (good in it's own right) then I'm filling bottles with something that might never go to glass. IMO, that's a waste of more space than an aging vessel occupies. Since I ferment, and age, in stainless kegs, I don't worry about many things others do. I also have enough stainless kegs that I can let several batches age before I need to free one up (6 mead primaries, 3 beer primaries, 1 extra mead aging vessel, as well as two beer aging vessels).

after bulk ageing, about how long are they in bottles before you start to open them for drinking?

 

[Golddiggie]

after bulk ageing, about how long are they in bottles before you start to open them for drinking?

Not long... Since they're basically ready to go to glass when I bottle them up, it's more a matter of when do I WANT to drink some of it. IMO/IME, that's the best model/mode you can use.

 

[EndlessPurple]

I can go for that.

 

[SandorClegane]

Thanks for all the info/tips/help, Golddiggie. I truly appreciate it.

In answer to your question of "was I going for 11% abv" - I actualy didn't have a plan of what I was going for. This is my first batch of anything, ever. So I followed a basic recipe I found online, used cheap honey, and figured that doing it this way would leave room to make my beginner's mistakes without ruining a bunch of expensive honey.

Next batch I'll use better honey, use the hydrometer I bought yesterday to get an original gravity, and give it more time in each stage.

Thanks for all the tips.

 

[Golddiggie]

Mead is one of those things that you cannot hide cheap ingredients on easily. A cheap honey base is ok (at best) when you're going to add a lot of other flavor elements to it. You'll still have the cheap honey to deal with under those though.

I went with great honey in my first mead batches and didn't regret it for an instant. I also looked at information on the Got Mead site, as well as posted in the forums before mixing my first batches.

While you don't need to spend a ton of money on the honey, it should at least taste great on it's own. It should also have strong flavors, if you want any to come through in the final product.

I've stopped using hydrometers in favor of refractometers for everything I ferment, now. With the miniscule sample needed for a refractometer, I can take a reading whenever I wish. I can also do it in a single pull with either of my thieves which makes it even easier.