Turning Coopers into a real lager

[Cshep87]

Hello Everyone

I plan to take on a project and attempt to turn a “Coopers Original Series Lager” kit in to a real lager. I know this may get me laughed out of the forum but I enjoy American light beers during the summer such as Coors Light and bud light so I hope to create something along those lines. Below is my plan:

- Mix Coopers kit with 2L of boiled water, 750g of dextrose, 250g of Maltodextrin then top off to 23L
- Toss away yeast from the kit (which is an ale yeast) and pitch Saflager S23 11.5g packet into my wort which should be around 20-22C (68-72F)
- Stir in pitched yeast for about 1 minute and cover with lid and airlock
- After 24 hrs if fermentation has begun, move fermenter to cold storage and lower temperature to 13C (55F). Leave for 1 week or until I get 2 steady hydrometer readings (will take one every 2nd day after 1 week mark)
- After fermentation is confirmed to be complete I will raise my temperature back to 20-22C (68-72F) for 2-3 days to compete a diacetyl rest
- After 2-3 days, transfer beer to a secondary glass carboy and place back in cold storage at 13C (55F) for 1 week
- After 1 week I will batch prime then bottle my brew while maintaining 13C (55F)
- Will leave bottled beer in cold storage at 13C (55F) for at least 3 months before tasting

My questions are:
- Has anyone ever tried this with a Coopers kit? Is the kit designed to last this long before being bottled or will it go bad before then?
- Will this result in an American light like lager? If not, is there another Coopers kit that would work better? Keep in mind I don’t want any heavy malt flavor in this beer
- Am I pitching the S23 yeast correctly? I have never used a starter and would like to avoid doing so if possible. Can I just pitch the yeast on top of the wort and stir it in or should I rehydrate it first and then stir it in?
- Will my bottles carbonate at 13C (55F)? Or do I need to raise temperature to kick off carbonation?
- How does the plan look in general? Any improvements I can make? Keep in mind i do not do any all grain brewing or anything with adding extra hops. I’m not quite there yet and don’t plan on starting with this batch. I pretty much like to stick with the coopers/Morgan’s/muntons kits plus adding dextrose/Maltodextrin/Coopers brew enhancers/Coopers light dry malt.
- Reminder, this is an attempt to create something tasteless and light like a bud/coors lol

Thanks
-C

 

[mredge73]

It is very difficult to make an american light lager, almost impossible from an extract kit.
Mixing it in cold is the right thing to do, you don't want to boil the HME.
You don't need the maltodextrin, you want a thin body.
You want your OG under 1.05 and your FG under 1.005.
Do not pitch at 72, pitch at 55.
Pitch the correct amount of yeast, check an online calculator like brewers friend. You usually need twice as much lager yeast than ale yeast.
After prime allow it to rise to room temp for 2 weeks to carbonate.

 

[Cshep87]

It is very difficult to make an american light lager, almost impossible from an extract kit.
Mixing it in cold is the right thing to do, you don't want to boil the HME.
You don't need the maltodextrin, you want a thin body.
You want your OG under 1.05 and your FG under 1.005.
Do not pitch at 72, pitch at 55.
Pitch the correct amount of yeast, check an online calculator like brewers friend. You usually need twice as much lager yeast than ale yeast.
After prime allow it to rise to room temp for 2 weeks to carbonate.

Thanks for the info, once I go to room temp to carbonate should I go back to cold storage if I am leaving in the bottle for 2-3 mo this?

Also, I’ve been looking more into the diacetyl rest and believe I should do that once fermentation slows after ~5 days then leave at room temp for 2-3 days.


Incorporating your info I would Rack to a secondary once diacetyl rest is complete then go back to cold temps for 2-4 weeks. Bottle the beer and raise to room temp again for 2 weeks to carbonate. Once carbonated move back to near freezing temps ?

 

[mredge73]

Once it is carbonated up it is ready to drink, cheap beer is best served ice cold!

Yeast produce most off flavors during the growth phase while oxygen is present, this is why you don't want to pitch warm.
The diacetyl rest is used to increase yeast activity after the growth phase to clean up some of the mess they made during the growth phase.
So it is debatable if you need to do it at all, but yes it is best to do this on the yeast cake at the end of fermentation. Be careful with moving it; you don't want to introduce oxygen that will make this entire step pointless.

Transferring to a secondary is only necessary if you are doing a longer lagering process (6-8 weeks) to reduce the risk of yeast autolysis.
However oxygen picked up during the transfer is more detrimental than yeast autolysis, especially if it is only sitting for 2-4 weeks.
Sparkling yellow water shouldn't need a very long lagering time.

Commercial breweries use a very short lagering time and filter the crap out of it.
Without a kegging system you will have to bottle condition.
You cannot filter because live yeast is necessary for bottle conditioning, they will contribute to taste making it very hard to replicate a tasteless BMC beer.

 

[Cshep87]

Once it is carbonated up it is ready to drink, cheap beer is best served ice cold!

Yeast produce most off flavors during the growth phase while oxygen is present, this is why you don't want to pitch warm.
The diacetyl rest is used to increase yeast activity after the growth phase to clean up some of the mess they made during the growth phase.
So it is debatable if you need to do it at all, but yes it is best to do this on the yeast cake at the end of fermentation. Be careful with moving it; you don't want to introduce oxygen that will make this entire step pointless.

Transferring to a secondary is only necessary if you are doing a longer lagering process (6-8 weeks) to reduce the risk of yeast autolysis.
However oxygen picked up during the transfer is more detrimental than yeast autolysis, especially if it is only sitting for 2-4 weeks.
Sparkling yellow water shouldn't need a very long lagering time.

Commercial breweries use a very short lagering time and filter the crap out of it.
Without a kegging system you will have to bottle condition.
You cannot filter because live yeast is necessary for bottle conditioning, they will contribute to taste making it very hard to replicate a tasteless BMC beer.

That makes sense. Good info. After more research I’m thinking of using W40/70 yeast now.
So I think I will mix my wort with 1kg of dextrose only at normal temps of 22C then allow temp to drop to about 15C. Once temp is dropped I will pitch my yeast.
I tried using the calculator but it’s a little complicated to me, I plan to make a 23L batch with an OG of ~1038. So I’m wondering if one 11.5g package of yeast is good for this? I don’t make starters so I would rehydrate the yeast for 30 mins like the package says then pitch it. Do I stir it in or just leave it on top?
When fermentation is near complete I will transfer to a secondary and bring temps back to 22C for 3 days for the diacetyl rest as well as to allow some more sediment to settle out.
After those 3 days I will batch prime and bottle at 22C for 2-3 weeks. Once carbonation is complete I will cold store my beer back around 15C

So my questions are:
- is one pack of 11.5 W40/70 yeast enough to pitch at 15C after it has been rehydrated?
- do I stir in the rehydrated yeast or leave it floating on the top?
- does this plan sound more reasonable than the last?

 

[CRZ]

I couldn't find w40/70 yeast, I did find w34/70 is this what you meant?
Also instead of using the coopers kit you can go full extract like the link below. I wanted to try this but have to order in the rice syrup solids making it very expensive to do.
Coors light clone i created ended up being very awesome....take a look

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=230070

 

[mredge73]

That makes sense. Good info. After more research I’m thinking of using W40/70 yeast now.
So I think I will mix my wort with 1kg of dextrose only at normal temps of 22C then allow temp to drop to about 15C. Once temp is dropped I will pitch my yeast.
I tried using the calculator but it’s a little complicated to me, I plan to make a 23L batch with an OG of ~1038. So I’m wondering if one 11.5g package of yeast is good for this? I don’t make starters so I would rehydrate the yeast for 30 mins like the package says then pitch it. Do I stir it in or just leave it on top?
When fermentation is near complete I will transfer to a secondary and bring temps back to 22C for 3 days for the diacetyl rest as well as to allow some more sediment to settle out.
After those 3 days I will batch prime and bottle at 22C for 2-3 weeks. Once carbonation is complete I will cold store my beer back around 15C

So my questions are:
- is one pack of 11.5 W40/70 yeast enough to pitch at 15C after it has been rehydrated?
- do I stir in the rehydrated yeast or leave it floating on the top?
- does this plan sound more reasonable than the last?

Do your diacetyl rest before transferring to secondary; you need the yeast to work during this period.

Do your lagering phase next, transfer to secondary (or leave it in primary) and store cold for a few days to a few weeks.
The lagering phase is done in bulk with live yeast; I think you are wanting to lager in the bottles.

Next bottle and carbonate at room temp for 2-3 weeks. After carbonation, store cold and drink.

Yeast:
Calculator says you need 3 packs.
You need 300B cells, each pack is about 100B.

If all you have is one pack you should make a starter; however someone will yell blasphemy in the next post for using a starter with dry yeast.

If you under pitch it will stay in the growth phase for a long time, this will produce flavors that are undesirable for a clean crisp beer.
Again, it isn't easy to make an American lager.

 

[z-bob]

2 liters, or 20 liters? (nevermind, I found the 23L in a later post)

What exactly is in the Cooper's kit? (how much malt syrup, etc) As much sugar as you're adding, the maltodextrose is probably a good idea. But you might end up with a better beer if you use less sugar and less water.

Cooper's yeast is actually supposed to be pretty good if it's fresh.

 

[Cshep87]

I’m actually considering using the “Morgan’s Canadian light” kit instead of a coopers. Problem is with both of these kits it contains an ale yeast so I will switch it out for W34/70 (previously written W40/70 was a typo). I’m not looking create a somewhat light beer like coors not something with a heavy beer taste.
Looks like I will need 3 packs. I need to do some practice with the calculator so I can figure these things out myself. Thanks for all the info.
If I rehydrate the 3 packs and pitch in do I stir it into the wort? Or leave it sitting on the top for fermentation?

 

[CRZ]

Some info on the w34/70 yeast.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/12/06/yest-review-saflager-w-3470-dry/

 

[mredge73]

I’m actually considering using the “Morgan’s Canadian light” kit instead of a coopers. Problem is with both of these kits it contains an ale yeast so I will switch it out for W34/70 (previously written W40/70 was a typo). I’m not looking create a somewhat light beer like coors not something with a heavy beer taste.
Looks like I will need 3 packs. I need to do some practice with the calculator so I can figure these things out myself. Thanks for all the info.
If I rehydrate the 3 packs and pitch in do I stir it into the wort? Or leave it sitting on the top for fermentation?

If you rehydrate in water first it really doesn't matter if you stir it in or not.

 

[Cshep87]

Thanks everyone for the info. According to the link posted above I need 2 packs of 34/70