Turning an infection into a good sour?

[jtmartino]

Hello all,

I have seen a couple threads on this, but no definitive answers, so I thought I'd throw it out there. About a week and a half ago I brewed a pumpkin ale using fresh pumpkin and a recipe similar to Thunderstruck.

Fermentation was aggressive and prolonged (about three days nonstop.) I had to use a blowoff tube at this time. When everything slowed down, I switched back to my normal stopper and airlock. I started getting a funky smell in the room where the carboy is. When I pulled the stopper off, the beer smelled pungent and sour. After a quick taste, it was definitely a bit sour (and dry) but surprisingly not bad tasting. Not sure if it's Acetobacter, but there is definitely something abnormal going on. Nothing is really growing on top of the beer, but it seems cloudier than normal.

I racked to another carboy to get the beer off the large amount of trub, and let it sit another few days. It smells less pungent now, and the sour taste is mild and actually pretty good. On the recommendation of the local homebrew store, I dropped about 5 campden tablets into the brew to stop any further souring that may occur. Here's my predicament:

Is it worth doing anything further to the beer to turn it into something worthwhile? I picked up a vial of Brett and a packet of Wyeast Roselare, in hopes that they can salvage this beer.

Should I add more sugar and pitch the Roselare? Should I just pitch the Brett and cross my fingers? Or not pitch anything and let it sit for a while?

Any advice would be helpful, as I'd really like to turn this beer into a nice sour pumpkin ale.

Cheers,

Josh

 

[cfonnes]

Does not sound like an infection to me.

If you pitch the roselare it will take many months for it to sour. You could notice effect of the Brett within a few months.

What strain of Brett do you have?

 

[jtmartino]

Does not sound like an infection to me.

If you pitch the roselare it will take many months for it to sour. You could notice effect of the Brett within a few months.

What strain of Brett do you have?

I have the White Labs Brettanomyces Lambicus WLP653. What makes you think that it's not a sour? I'm a big fan of sour beers, and this one definitely has an acetic flavor.

 

[cfonnes]

I have the White Labs Brettanomyces Lambicus WLP653. What makes you think that it's not a sour? I'm a big fan of sour beers, and this one definitely has an acetic flavor.

Every sour that I have seen or heard of had something growing on the top.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

So after four days you decided the beer was sour? Fermentation wasn't even complete. Some yeast strains blow out sulfur and other undesirable smells. Doesn't mean it was sour. You're also likely to get some strange smells using pumpkin. Again, doesn't mean it's sour. It does not sound like you have an infection.

The fact that you stopped fermentation after four days and want to pitch souring bugs and/or brett means you might as well assume this beer is going to sit for a couple of years to get to terminal gravity.

If I were you I would repitch yeast and let it ferment as usual. If it ends up being sour then you can think about pitching all that other stuff in there.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I have the White Labs Brettanomyces Lambicus WLP653. What makes you think that it's not a sour? I'm a big fan of sour beers, and this one definitely has an acetic flavor.

An acetic flavor is not going to show up four days after you pitched the yeast.

 

[jtmartino]

I noticed the sourness about 7 days after pitching the yeast, which is when I racked to the secondary. Not sure where you got the four days number. Also, a buddy brewed a similar recipe, and his beer was not sour at all after a week.

For reference, I measured gravity, and it's around the 1.012 mark, which is lower than the expected FG on the recipe (expected is 1.015). To have a gravity that low after a week means either I had a good starter, or something else is in the fermenter.

It's possible that an infection occurred and there was something on the surface, but it was hidden by the Krausen in the primary. Then it didn't have enough time in the secondary to grow again before I hit it with Campden.

I don't think repitching yeast is going to help at this point, because there's probably not a whole lot of sugar left in the beer. Unless you guys think pitching more yeast would do something else. So should I toss in Roselare? Brett? Both? I have no experience with sours, so any advice would be helpful.

Thanks.

 

[McCheese352]

If you've added campden to stop fermentation, wouldn't the environment still be toxic to the new yeast/bugs/whatever you're adding? Or are the active ingredients in campden volatile and lost after x amount of time?

My gut says there's no point in tossing more good ingredients after bad.

 

[SenorPepe]

Campden is volatile if that's the right word. Otherwise you'd never be able to use it pre-fermentation. I think you give it 24-48 hours to "blow off" or dissipate or whatever the technical term is.

 

[ArtVandelay]

Beer was probably just Green. Let it be for a couple weeks

 

[McCheese352]

Campden is volatile if that's the right word. Otherwise you'd never be able to use it pre-fermentation. I think you give it 24-48 hours to "blow off" or dissipate or whatever the technical term is.

In relation to eliminating chlorine in water, wouldn't that be a different chemical process? The campden and chlorine binding and becoming somethig inert? I dunno, i'm certainly no chemist.

 

[jamest22]

Wasn't adding that campden a bad idea? In my experience using campden with wine, it takes months for the aroma and flavor of the metabisulfite to dissipate.

 

[jtmartino]

Campden is volatile if that's the right word. Otherwise you'd never be able to use it pre-fermentation. I think you give it 24-48 hours to "blow off" or dissipate or whatever the technical term is.

Right. I was told by my homebrew store owner that the beer would be safe for yeast or other bacteria about 48 hours after dropping the Campden tabs.

 

[SenorPepe]

In relation to eliminating chlorine in water, wouldn't that be a different chemical process? The campden and chlorine binding and becoming somethig inert? I dunno, i'm certainly no chemist.

Could be. As you might have caught from my terminology, I don't know what the hell is really going on chemically, either as a stabilizer or chlorine neutralizer or whatever it does to chlorine.

 

[jtmartino]

Wasn't adding that campden a bad idea? In my experience using campden with wine, it takes months for the aroma and flavor of the metabisulfite to dissipate.

People use it all the time in making cider to stop fermentation or kill of baddies. It was really the only thing I could do to kill any current infection, short of pasteurizing (which doesn't work well without proper equipment.) Not sure how long it takes to dissipate, but I'm in no hurry (which is why I'm considering the Brett or Roselare.)

I've already brewed a new batch so I can have something for Christmas.

 

[jtmartino]

Beer was probably just Green. Let it be for a couple weeks

Perhaps, but that doesn't explain why my buddy's batch of beer with the same recipe tasted normal after a week, and mine was sour. I'll know for sure on Tuesday, since I replicated my recipe and the second batch will be done in the primary by then.

 

[Zamial]

Perhaps, but that doesn't explain why my buddy's batch of beer with the same recipe tasted normal after a week, and mine was sour. I'll know for sure on Tuesday, since I replicated my recipe and the second batch will be done in the primary by then.

I have been following this tread a`s I have a "bad batch" that has a wild infection. It does not taste bad just sour. (I really should check on it again soon) I am 100% sure I know what caused the infection and all of my equipment was replaced or autoclaved. If you DO have an infection and you did mnothing to kill it off/clean your equipment you may have an ongoing issue. This is more of a "heads up" than anything else.

I do agree that you reacted WAY to soon. As for the "my buddies batch with X time" Time is not an indicator of anything other than age. Get a hydrometer and use it because that is the ONLY way to know what is going on with a fermentation.

 

[jtmartino]

I have been following this tread a`s I have a "bad batch" that has a wild infection. It does not taste bad just sour. (I really should check on it again soon) I am 100% sure I know what caused the infection and all of my equipment was replaced or autoclaved. If you DO have an infection and you did mnothing to kill it off/clean your equipment you may have an ongoing issue. This is more of a "heads up" than anything else.

I do agree that you reacted WAY to soon. As for the "my buddies batch with X time" Time is not an indicator of anything other than age. Get a hydrometer and use it because that is the ONLY way to know what is going on with a fermentation.

I do have a hydrometer. As stated earlier, gravity after a week was 1.012. Expected FG for this recipe was somewhere around 1.015.

I've scrubbed and soaked everything in oxiclean, scrubbed and soaked it in a strong bleach solution, rinsed excessively, and soaked again in StarSan. Hopefully I got everything .