tube rims/herms idea

[buzzardman]

i got my idea from my wvo diesel car i use to have and was wondering if anyone has tried applying this idea to a brew rig. the basic idea is to take a piece of copper or stainless steel tube, connect silicone tubing to each end, one end goes to a pump the other returns to the top of cooler. then i would insert some .035 stainless steel wire into a fiberglass sleeve and wrap that wire around the stainless tube and wrap with high temp silicone tape. i would connect the wire to a dc voltage regulator to be able to control the temp of the wort coming out of the tube and just manualy control the pump and the temp for now. i would just need to figure out what length of wire to use. i have made this type of thing for a injector line heaters on my veg oil car and they worked great. not sure if it would be considered a rims or herms becuase the heating element is not in actual contact with the wort its more of a heat exchanger. picture of my idea is below.

 

[weirdboy]

I don't get it. You are using the wire as a heating element?

Looks like you're trying to recirculate through an electromagnet to me.

 

[pickles]

There is a thread on here somewhere, that electric heat wrap (used to thaw pipes) was used to externally heat a RIMs tube. I think it was successful.

 

[Cruzn4aBrewzn]

Awesome idea! Let us know if you try it and how it works....

Speak softly and carry a large beer

 

[buzzardman]

yes the wire would be the heating element. basicly its just a big resistor one end goes to positive one end to negative and the temp it heats to can be varied by voltage reg and the length of wire used. i searched the forums and could not find anything. was hoping someone else had done this so that i would not need to figure out amps, wire length, and flow rate to hit the temp range i need. i guess ill get started working on this.

 

[iparks81]

I like the Idea of this, I hope there is more info to come

 

[microbusbrewery]

Looks interesting. My concern would be in regards to efficiency. For example, how much of the heat generated by the wire is actually transferred through the copper to the circulating mash and will it heat evenly along the entire length of your heat exchanger? Generally speaking you're going to have better conductivity if you use a liquid medium for heat transfer. That's why most people build stand alone heat exchangers or use their HLT as a heat exchanger. Another concern, since you don’t have much thermal mass, it seems like it would have a tendency to cycle your element a lot. This would especially happen if you’re trying to increase temperatures for mashout or if you’re doing a step mash. If you’re using a solid state relay to control the element, they tend to generate more heat the more they’re cycled on and off which could mean premature failure, so that’s something to keep in mind.

 

[LordUlrich]

The main concern I have is having enough heating power, plus the typical immersed heating element is far more efficient. Now you could use the same circut with a water heater element (it is just a resistor) although I don't know what you would be gaining vs PWM with ac

 

[buzzardman]

im not too worried about efficiency my main goal is space saving and not needing a Seperate HLT. i know from using this type if thing on a veg oil car that it was capable of maintaining 170 degrees out of veg oil into the engine without the engine being warmed up so im sure it will heat the wort enough for this application.

 

[audger]

if you really dont care about efficicency, you could look into induction heating. pass a high frequency alternating current thru a large-ish gauge wire wrapped around a copper pipe. that would be more of a RIMS as you would be directly heating the copper, but you could easily control it via PWM and some experimentation to dial in exactly how much energy you impart to the copper pipe.

the reason i suggest that over your design is because the electrical insulation (fiberglass sheath) necessary between the heater wire and the copper pipe is a big barrier to heat transfer. with induction, any physical barrier between the induction coil and the copper tube wouldnt have any effect. and you wouldnt need to carefully calculate heating wire gauge, vs ohms, vs current, and it wouldnt "burn out" the way resistance heater wires do.

you would see an almost instantaneous rise in liquid temperature as well, instead of waiting for the resistance heater to warm up, and for the energy to slowly cross the fiberglass barrier.

 

[Clementine]

Like the idea, the length of wire would need to be considerable to max out the resistance. AC elements use back EMF (induce voltage opposing the alternating voltage in AC) to limit current flow. Also I would use Ni-chrome wire instead of SS it has better heating properties.

Clem

 

[ftlstrings]

any movement on this?

 

[rosienej]

any movement on this?

Here is a thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/electric-heating-element-rims-eherms-293810/ which is documenting the build.

I have been brewing with it for about 3 years, it works really well. I am rebuilding to make it look more finished. Here is an old image of my brew setup.

I use 2 pipe heaters for a little over 1200 Watts.

Joel