Trying to get the hop-back effect...?

[Richlandbrewer]

No matter what I do (hop stand, dry-hop in primary after initial fermentation is over, hop tea, pray to the gods) I cannot get the hop flavor/aroma I desire. I really don't want to dump the damn hops in my keg. I saw a video of a small commercial operation where they ran the boiled wort through an open pot full of (leaf) hops, mixing it around as the wort flowed through. Of course they could then run it through a heat ex-changer, which I don't have, but since I do have a stn. stl. fermenter, I can just run it into that and use my immersion chiller at that point prior to pitching.

What thinks you all??

 

[IvanBrew]

I've never used a hop-back, so I can't speak from experience. The reason I haven't used a hop-back is that it just seems so close in concept to a flameout addition in the kettle that I can't convince myself it's worth the money/hassle to set up...

I'm doubtful that using one is going to give you what you're missing if you've already tried everything you mention.

Perhaps, though, there's another problem that can be fixed...

Can you tell us more about what it is you're after? i.e. characterize the flavor your missing; give a commercial example, etc...

Also, what's your brew process look like? i.e. all-grain, extract, partial boil, etc. Do you do any water treatment?

 

[BBBF]

What you are suggesting is really still a hop stand, but with extra, unnecessary steps.

With the hopback, the hot wort is going through the hops and immediately chilled. It is sealed the whole time, so the oils can't evaporate.

 

[jfish1183]

When I first started brewing I would dry hop in my kegs using SS tea balls, it worked ok but still did not get what I was looking for. After a lot of experimentation I now always use a flame out addition, and dry hop in 2 stages in my primary. I dry hop for 5-7 days with my first addition and 3 for the second. I can't explain in any technical terms why this works so much better for me but it does. I find I get too much hop aroma sometimes (almost impossible I'm my opinion), I usually add 1 oz dry hop per carboy(5 gal) every addition. Certain hops will produce more aroma then others so I have dialed back the amounts of those hops to get the amount of aroma desired.

On another note....the hops you are using for aroma will make a huge difference. I started out using lots of centennial and cascade (both are bittering and aroma hop) and wasn't getting that aroma I wanted. Got my hands on some citra and Amarillo hops and have been experimenting with those as my late additions and dry hops and have gotten all the aroma I could ask for.


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[sawbossFogg]

I have a Blichman Hop Rocket. What I like a out it is I use gravity to slow run from my kettle to the fermentor through 2-3 of whole cone hops. It adds tremendous aroma and act as an excellent filter of hot break and trub. What I don't like is that the collar which holds the bottom on is made with fine threads which easily stripped and costs $40 to replace. Moreover, Blichmann does not communicate directly with consumers and via my retailer told me to **** off, so they suck. Nonetheless, it works better with a bit of bailing wire anyway. I like it.


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[MrKosen]

If your looking for a DIY option. Here would be a place to start.

 

[bschot]

I've dry hopped with an ounce of whole leaf Citra in the keg, I was worried about the mess of cleaning it up so I put the hops in a 1 gallon nylon paint strainer bag tied shut with a bit of nylon thread. I sanitized the bag and thread with StarSan (probably pointless but it made me feel better) put the hops in tied it shut and threw it on the keg. By the time the keg was carbonated it was sufficiently dry hopped. When the keg blew I opened it up and pulled out the bag, no mess whatsoever. Side note I don't know if pellets would work as well because the fine particulates might make it into the beer.

 

[Richlandbrewer]

Thank you all for your input. To answer Ivanbrew, I do all-grain, water good. For an example I'm really like New Belgium's Ranger IPA

 

[jmichaeldesign]

What's your water like? Do you have your local water report? Adding sulfates helps highlight hops.

 

[IvanBrew]

Thank you all for your input. To answer Ivanbrew, I do all-grain, water good. For an example I'm really like New Belgium's Ranger IPA

Can you describe what it is about Ranger IPA's hop profile that you like and are having trouble trying to duplicate? Is it a particular flavor component, or scent? Is it the brightness/sharpness of the flavor?

I suspect that what you're trying to achieve has more to do with flavors and aromas than it does bittering. If it's actual flavors (spicy vs floral, piney vs citrus, etc.) then the answer is probably in the specific hops bill.

If the "issue" is the brightness or sharpness of those flavors, then the answer gets really complex. Water profile is a good place to start, but how dextrineous the wort is, wort pH, vigor of the fermentation, fermentation temperature, and a LOT of other things will effect beer in ways that change perception of the hops...

 

[heckels]

I've dry hopped with an ounce of whole leaf Citra in the keg, I was worried about the mess of cleaning it up so I put the hops in a 1 gallon nylon paint strainer bag tied shut with a bit of nylon thread. I sanitized the bag and thread with StarSan (probably pointless but it made me feel better) put the hops in tied it shut and threw it on the keg. By the time the keg was carbonated it was sufficiently dry hopped. When the keg blew I opened it up and pulled out the bag, no mess whatsoever. Side note I don't know if pellets would work as well because the fine particulates might make it into the beer.

I use this method with my IPAs but with a muslin bag. Works great. I also soak is StarSan before adding the hops for piece of mind.


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[IvanBrew]

In the interest of, ahem, research I picked up a 6 pack of Ranger, lol.

It's damned tasty stuff. I can see why it's on your list

I also poked around here for clone recipes and read up at New Belgium's site.

It looks like they use three hop varieties: Chinook, Simcoe, and Cascade. Chinook is probably the main bittering hop and (from the website) Cascade is the dry hop. The flavor/aroma boil additions are probably a blend, and that's where you're going to have to experiment.

For the dry hop, my personal success skyrocketed after reading an article here: http://handsonbrewing.com/brewers-reference/process/dry-hopping-the-proper-way/

Before doing things that way I could never get the flavor/aroma that I wanted from dry hopping. If I used enough hops to get the flavor/aroma I wanted, I'd end up with grassy tones I didn't want. If I cut back the qty, I didn't get the flavor/aroma.

Good luck, and thanks for inspiring me to try an IPA I haven't had before

 

[Richlandbrewer]

I guess I want to pour a bottle of my home brew, stick my nose in it, and smell that lovely aroma of hops. Pure and simple. It has never happened. All this input is really good and I appreciate it, and I am a scientist by nature, so I am willing to get more into the science, but I was hoping it wasn't that complicated I have never gotten a water test or report - our municipal water supply tastes perfectly good and I always figured it made good beer. Maybe I am just too chinsy and don't use enough hops or wahterver.

 

[Richlandbrewer]

Ivanbrew - if the only achievement of this post was to get you to try Ranger, I am happy with the response

 

[IvanBrew]

Ivanbrew - if the only achievement of this post was to get you to try Ranger, I am happy with the response

That makes two of us, lol, though I'd be a lot happier if it also moved the bar for you on your pale ales...

Definitely read that article I linked on dry hopping. There's also a good chance you're under-hopping, especially with late additions and dry hops.

Here's another reference I like: http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/08/how-to-brew-better-ipas.html

It recommends 3-4 lb/bbl of hops for an IPA, which is on the order of 9-13 oz in a 6 gallon batch. It goes on to recommend 3-6oz per 6 gallons for dry hop, which is right in-line with my personal favorite IPA recipe.

My favorite pale recipe calls for FW, 15, 10, 5, & 1 minute additions and is then dry hopped in the primary immediately after the krausen begins to fall. I use a total of 26 oz of Citra (at 13.9%) in an 18 gallon batch, 9 oz of which are added as dry hops.

The flavor and aroma of that beer is like nothing I've ever brewed before it. It is, by far, the best beer I make.

I also treat my water. I start out with R/O and build it up using the pale ale profile in the Brun Water spreadsheet. The difference between that and my previous tap water based brews is not huge, but it is distinct. The hops character is more sharp, brighter, for lack of a better description.

 

[Richlandbrewer]

Much obliged. After reviewing the links and your comments, I am definitely under-hopping. And I know how to fix that....