Trying to brew better

[javaking]

Hello all!

Recently I have been on a mission to significantly improve my home brew. I have been brewing for about 5 years, mostly extract, however the extended time in between batches (~4-5 months) has made it so that improvements have been minimal across this time. All in all I've brewed around 11-12 extract batches and recently switched to BIAB, completing my fourth batch this past week. Over the years I've made a few investments such as a fridge for kegging and temp controlled fermentation, a wort chiller, some nice thermometers and pots, etc. I've had a few batches I've really liked and others that were not good at all. So with all of this is mind, I've really wanted to step up my brew game to consistently get beer that I want to drink and share with others.

As I've said, I recently switched to BIAB which I feel has helped motivate me to get better. Not only is it cheaper to buy the grains, but I have stuck with brewing 3 gallon batches making less beer for me to drink before brewing another batch. I'm hoping that brewing more batches will also help me get better. One recent improvement which I feel helped the overall quality of the beer was fermenting out beyond 7-10 days which I often see mentioned as a adequate fermentation period. Now I've been going out at least 2 weeks. Also, I am very satisfied with the flavors and colors of the beers that I am getting with BIAB and definitely feel like I am heading in the right direction. Although I would like to have a bigger set up, living in a small apartment has restricted my setup. I guess I just wanted to share my thoughts on trying to get better and was interested in other brewers perspective on the path to making good homebrew. Is there any advice or thoughts to share with someone (still early on like me) that you feel has helped achieve the next level. I'm not just saying for beer that is drinkable, which I can already accomplish, but something on the next level.

Just to share some info on my last batch, I attempted to brew the northernbrewer dead ringer IPA, but picked up the grains from my local HBS. I did a slightly lower grain bill than what they call for.

5 lbs Rahr 2-row
1 lb Caramel 40

I was on temp during the mash (152 for Sacch' rest and 170 mashout) and added a slightly lower hop bill with just 0.2 oz centennial for the 60 min (I wanted a lower bitterness), 0.6 oz for 20 min, and 1 oz for 5 min. I used the recommended wyeast 1056 which started bubbling in 12 hrs and looks like it's already finishing up after 2.5 days. Now I've just waiting to finish up fermentation before dry hopping, cold crashing, and kegging. Here's a pic of it in the fermenter.

Anyways, It's been a while since I last posted but I wanted to hear from everyone on homebrew talk and share my story.

Cheers!

 

[Amadeo38]

Hard to know how to help you bring your beers to the “next level” without tasting your beers, but I can suggest a couple things you didn’t mention.

1. Do you do any water adjustments? Look around the forum for some good info regarding what supplements to add to get your mash water in prime shape for a good mash.

2. If you’re going to brew 3 gallon bathes consistently, it might be a good idea to get a 3 gallon carboy. The amount of head space you’ve got in the carboy in the picture could lead to oxidation after you uncap it to test the gravity. Especially now that you’re leaving it in primary longer.

3. Along the lines of #2 above, look into ways of reducing oxidation when transferring from primary to keg.

4. Brew more often!

Cheers

 

[bpgreen]

This is for a 3 gallon batch, right?

You used proportionally less 2 row, but kept the C40 at the same amount as for a 5 gallon batch. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but you'll end up with more residual sweetness from the C40.

Since you said you wanted it less bitter, that may have been your intent. I've brewed the dead ringer as is and liked it, but I like bitter beers.

 

[whiskeyjack]

1. Taking good notes is key especially if you go long periods without brewing.
2. You said you were getting into all grain, don't make to many changes at one time. If you run into a not so great batch you may not know the problem.
3. Water additions as mentioned.
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/water-adjustment
This site made my week when I found it

 

[C-Rider]

Don't rush the ferment. I do 2 gal batches in HD 2 gal paint bucktes. I never mess w/my fermenting beer for 3 weeks many times 4 weeks. BIAB doesn't not require mash out. I usually get 3 six packs per brew. KEEP GOOD NOTES.

 

[javaking]

Hard to know how to help you bring your beers to the “next level” without tasting your beers, but I can suggest a couple things you didn’t mention.

1. Do you do any water adjustments? Look around the forum for some good info regarding what supplements to add to get your mash water in prime shape for a good mash.

2. If you’re going to brew 3 gallon bathes consistently, it might be a good idea to get a 3 gallon carboy. The amount of head space you’ve got in the carboy in the picture could lead to oxidation after you uncap it to test the gravity. Especially now that you’re leaving it in primary longer.

3. Along the lines of #2 above, look into ways of reducing oxidation when transferring from primary to keg.

4. Brew more often!

Cheers

Thanks for the input, I have always wanted to adjust my water chemistry but wasn't sure how difficult it is. Whiskeyjack below sent a really nice link that I think will get me started. Also, I hadn't really thought about the head space in the past, but this is probably because I was only fermenting for up to 10 days. I will look to upgrade this as well. Brewing more is definitely my plan!

Cheers

 

[javaking]

This is for a 3 gallon batch, right?

You used proportionally less 2 row, but kept the C40 at the same amount as for a 5 gallon batch. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but you'll end up with more residual sweetness from the C40.

Since you said you wanted it less bitter, that may have been your intent. I've brewed the dead ringer as is and liked it, but I like bitter beers.

Yeah, I altered the recipe quite a bit. I actually added more C40 than what is called for in the original recipe but used about 2lbs less of the 2 row. Then lowered my 60 min boil hop addition because I also figured I was boiling at a lower gravity which would enhance the bitterness. I think this is an area where I can also improve. I've looked into using some of the available software like beersmith to better understand and design beer recipes.

Anyways, I'm interested to see how it turns out.

Cheers!

 

[javaking]

1. Taking good notes is key especially if you go long periods without brewing.
2. You said you were getting into all grain, don't make to many changes at one time. If you run into a not so great batch you may not know the problem.
3. Water additions as mentioned.
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/water-adjustment
This site made my week when I found it

Hey whiskeyjack, thanks for the input. I think I'm starting to realize that taking notes is going to be really important to brewing consistent beer. I know there are some templates out there that I might print out and keep in a binder/notebook. I also agree that making too many changes can make it difficult to nail down exactly what is causing issues in a batch. One of my future goals is to brew a light beer several times where imperfections can't easily hide (like a blonde) and just nail it down. Finally, thanks a bunch for the link, I've heard a lot about the importance of water chemistry, but thought it might be too advanced for an early homebrewer. This link has a lot of great info that I will start looking into for my next batch.

Cheers!

 

[soccerdad]

In your OP, you said that you have had some batches that were not good at all. Can you elaborate? Was it a style you decided you did not like? An off flavor?

If you have temp control, you are well more than halfway there. PH control through water adjustment will get you the rest of he way (IMHO). Then It's consistency which comes from brewing more.

 

[bleme]

I'd add to the above that RECIPE matters. You will get more useful information if you brew a trusted recipe as-is, then make small changes to that in another batch so you can taste what difference it made.

 

[kevin58]

The best thing you can do to improve your brewing is caring for your yeast/fermentation. That means use yeast nutrient... use adequate aeration of your wort prior to pitching the yeast... and controlled temperatures during fermentation.

 

[javaking]

In your OP, you said that you have had some batches that were not good at all. Can you elaborate? Was it a style you decided you did not like? An off flavor?

If you have temp control, you are well more than halfway there. PH control through water adjustment will get you the rest of he way (IMHO). Then It's consistency which comes from brewing more.

A lot of my early issues with extract brewing (I believe) came from the maillard reaction, where extract was caramelizing on the bottom of my pot. Not only was the beer color darker than what I wanted, but I had a consistent sweet toffee/malt flavor in a lot of my beers. Most of these beers were pale ales. I started switching to late extract additions and I think this helped. Since switching to BIAB I have been very happy with the color and haven't noticed this.

I have also had a few issues with diacetyl, and a couple times had an almost grassy/kerosene flavor. I think I've been able to overcome most of these issues through rehydration of dry yeasts and better fermentation temp control. One time I had a beer that finished really dry and didn't have any residual sweetness. I am not sure where that came from. After some of the previous comments, I think I am going to look at my water chemistry (tailored to beer style) to enhance the desired qualities for each batch.

Cheers!

 

[javaking]

The best thing you can do to improve your brewing is caring for your yeast/fermentation. That means use yeast nutrient... use adequate aeration of your wort prior to pitching the yeast... and controlled temperatures during fermentation.

Hey Kevin58, yea I have definitely started thinking about this. I am actually very interested in collecting some yeast from the batch I am currently brewing and storing for next time. I hear that it is not too complicated and they can just be stored in mason jars. I am curious with how much you would need to pitch and what prep is required before pitching when taking this approach. Is it even worth trying or are smack packs/rehydrating dry yeast with nutrients just easier and more reliable?

Cheers!

 

[GnenieGone]

One key to brewing better beer is knowing what you want out of a beer. I taste off flavors big time so everything I've done as a home brewer was to understand what they are and work on eliminating them from my beer. Some ppl like 1lb of C40 on their ipas and others are disgusted by it so recipes are individualistic. I would try A LOT of different beers and A LOT of different styles. Once you get a handle on what beers to focus on, research that beer to death from water chemistry to transfer steps. There's always something to work on. I've glanced through here and see some good ideas. Best wishes!

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

2. If you’re going to brew 3 gallon bathes consistently, it might be a good idea to get a 3 gallon carboy. The amount of head space you’ve got in the carboy in the picture could lead to oxidation after you uncap it to test the gravity. Especially now that you’re leaving it in primary longer.

I'm a 3g Brewer myself, and the problem with 3g carboys is there's not enough headpsace for krausen and whatnot, even with a blowoff. I brew in 5g carboys for primary and in the rare chance I do a secondary, I don't sweat the extra headspace. I know a lot of people who don't sweat this either and have never had an oxidation problem.

 

[GnenieGone]

I use home depot 5gal buckets with a spigot. No issues with 3 or 3.5gal batches.

 

[dnye]

This is the second time recently I've seen people mention the homer buckets. I thought they were not food safe and shouldn't be used for homebrewing? Any concerns?

 

[bleme]

This is the second time recently I've seen people mention the homer buckets. I thought they were not food safe and shouldn't be used for homebrewing? Any concerns?

The simple answer to this is "It depends". There are numerous threads dedicated to this debate. Most agree that the white buckets are safe. Some argue that the orange colorant hasn't been tested so nobody knows. Some won't use plastic at all.

 

[shoengine]

I've almost completely removed plastic from my process (aside from the fittings on hoses and the bottling bucket). Glass and passivated stainless are fairly inert and less difficult to clean properly, and are almost impossible to run via cleaning.

With that said, I'd say the majority of beers on this board are made with a good amount of plastic involved, and they come out great. On buckets, check that they are HDPE. There is some confusion on the net about HDPE and if it is always, generally, or must be specifically noted it is safe.

Here is one note: https://modernsurvivalblog.com/preps/safe-plastics-for-food-and-drink/

 

[GnenieGone]

This is the second time recently I've seen people mention the homer buckets. I thought they were not food safe and shouldn't be used for homebrewing? Any concerns?

Not a damn thing wrong with it. You eat out of food grade HDPE-2 all the time. People who argue about don't know what they are talking about. Only draw back is they do require more cleaning/sanitation and I replace them every 8-12 months or so due to build up. But at $4.75ea, who cares. Phenomenal beer has been produced with buckets. It's the least of my brewing concerns.

 

[GnenieGone]

 

[AZBeer]

Still a relative noob myself, but getting serious about my water has been the biggest improvement in my brews. First batch I made adjustments I saw an improvement.

Taking care of my yeast was another, easy improvement.

Next up for me is tackling O2 issues.

 

[GnenieGone]

Water, fermentation temp control, cold crashing/settling yeast...those 3 things are 95% to better beer. You can add pitching...but for 5gal batches thats hardly an issue. I always brew a 6%er beer to build yeast for an 11%er.

 

[C-Rider]

This is the second time recently I've seen people mention the homer buckets. I thought they were not food safe and shouldn't be used for homebrewing? Any concerns?

I've been using "homer" 2 gallon white buckets for like 5 years. Late last year I had two infections in a row. Threw out the buckets and bought 4 new ones. No infection since. Could be the buckets had minor scratches.

 

[whiskeyjack]

Hey whiskeyjack, thanks for the input. I think I'm starting to realize that taking notes is going to be really important to brewing consistent beer. I know there are some templates out there that I might print out and keep in a binder/notebook. I also agree that making too many changes can make it difficult to nail down exactly what is causing issues in a batch. One of my future goals is to brew a light beer several times where imperfections can't easily hide (like a blonde) and just nail it down. Finally, thanks a bunch for the link, I've heard a lot about the importance of water chemistry, but thought it might be too advanced for an early homebrewer. This link has a lot of great info that I will start looking into for my next batch.

Cheers!

Yea it's way over my head, I use RO or distilled and just build it up a tad using ezwatercalc or brewersfriend water calc

 

[javaking]

Yea it's way over my head, I use RO or distilled and just build it up a tad using ezwatercalc or brewersfriend water calc

Like most cities, Buffalo releases an annual water quality report with specific mineral levels. Would it be better to make adjustments and build from this profile, or just start fresh with distilled/RO water? I usually run my water through a charcoal filter before starting the brewing process.

I guess the big question is whether or not working with RO/distilled water is just better because it's a clean system you can add to, or if city water contains other minerals which are important for flavor that might be lost from the distillation process. Also, on a side note, I was looking at a local grocery store and they actually add minerals back to the RO water for flavor. I'm wondering if distilled water is a better option, or if there is a good place to purchase pure RO water.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

When I resumed brewing last year after almost a 25 year hiatus, I was on a mission to brew the best beer I could. I spent several hours a day for 3-4 months reading. I read "Brew Your Own" cover to cover twice. I read countless posts on this forum. I re-read Papazian's book. I did google searches for recipes. I searched for how to get or avoid certain elements in my beers (how to get a rich mouthfeel for a stout, how to get that great juicy taste in a NEIPA, how to go from good beers to "WOW" beers, etc.).

After all that, I brewed my first beer and focused on a couple things. I did my own recipe, but it was really a blend of a number of recipes, incorporating the elements that I'd gotten from my reading to take my beer where I wanted it. That first beer was really, really good. Here are the things I did:

Fermentation temp - you're already doing this. I haven't brewed without it, but everything I read said it was crucial.

Yeast health - I did a starter for my liquid yeast and used yeast nutrient. I made sure my starter and wort were at the right temp when I pitched. I also took care to ensure adequate oxygen for the little guys.

Water - I used RO water and built a water profile that I put together after reading countless posts and articles. I managed the pH using lactic acid. I use Bru'n water and verified my pH for the first handful of brews, but it's been right on so I don't even check it anymore. I now use acidulated malt if I need to lower the pH.
I'm not a water guru and my eyes glaze over with the chemistry, but you can employ the concepts without understanding the details under the hood.

Notes - I take meticulous notes every time I brew. I record times, gravities and volumes for first runnings, second runnings, pre-boil and post boil. I record any thing that doesn't go to schedule...chiller issues, changes in hop timing, etc.

Sanitation - I ensured everything on the cold side was clean and sanitized...maybe to the point of obsession, but I didn't want to dump 5 gallons down the drain.

Oxidation - I keg, so I made sure I did everything in my power to avoid introduction of oxygen during the transfer to the keg. I'm far from the hardcore LODO guys, but I see no reason not to grab the low hanging fruit on this one. So far, that's been enough for me.

That was really all it took for me. I've gotten glowing reviews on my beers including a 41 at a regional competition.

Good luck and remember, the best thing you can do is read, learn and brew.

 

[whiskeyjack]

Like most cities, Buffalo releases an annual water quality report with specific mineral levels. Would it be better to make adjustments and build from this profile, or just start fresh with distilled/RO water? I usually run my water through a charcoal filter before starting the brewing process.

I guess the big question is whether or not working with RO/distilled water is just better because it's a clean system you can add to, or if city water contains other minerals which are important for flavor that might be lost from the distillation process. Also, on a side note, I was looking at a local grocery store and they actually add minerals back to the RO water for flavor. I'm wondering if distilled water is a better option, or if there is a good place to purchase pure RO water.

My city gives bad water reports, don't show half what I need. Since I do 2.5g batches mainly its just easy to pick a few jugs of water up. If I had good water I would definitly use it without issue

 

[javaking]

My city gives bad water reports, don't show half what I need. Since I do 2.5g batches mainly its just easy to pick a few jugs of water up. If I had good water I would definitly use it without issue

I actually just contacted the water treatment supervisor and it was the same, they don't test for half of the things which are necessary to make adjustments. Instead of sending out a sample to get tested elsewhere, I'm just going to build off of RO/distilled water.

 

[AZBeer]

Yep, that is what I do. I have an RO/DI unit for my reeftank, so I just use the RO output from that. You can get jugs filled at the RO stations outside of grocery stores/ walmart/ drug stores/ etc. Just be mindful of the fact that they may or may not be properly maintained.

Or you can get an RO unit for reasonably cheap. Works out cheaper in the long run. With the amount of water I got through for my tank, it has more than paid for itself.

 

[javaking]

Yep, that is what I do. I have an RO/DI unit for my reeftank, so I just use the RO output from that. You can get jugs filled at the RO stations outside of grocery stores/ walmart/ drug stores/ etc. Just be mindful of the fact that they may or may not be properly maintained.

Or you can get an RO unit for reasonably cheap. Works out cheaper in the long run. With the amount of water I got through for my tank, it has more than paid for itself.

Thanks AZBeer, I didn't realize there were RO stations outside of big stores, I will have to check that out.

Just an update for everyone on my most recent batch. After over 10 days in the fermenter, I finally decided to take a gravity reading and do a taste test to see how the fermentation was progressing. I previously failed to mention that my OG post boil was 1.050 (for slightly over 3 gallons) which was almost exactly on target, assuming ~75% efficiency. According to brewers friend my target FG was 1.015, and according to my hydrometer I hit 1.014 so it seems that everything was right on target. I will give props to the wyeast 1056 yeast because fermentation started very quickly and the majority of the krausen had dropped out by about 4 days after pitching. I also dry hopped 1 oz of centennial after 8 days of fermentation, dropping them directly into the fermenter without a hop bag. After tasting the beer (pre-carbonation) I am very satisfied with the overall flavor profile. It is very clean with just a slight residual sweetness, only slightly bitter (which I wanted), and has a great hop aroma/character. My plan is to cold crash on around day 12, then bottle on day 14 of fermentation. Interestingly, I used my tap water (charcoal filtered) for brewing, and it seems to compliment this beer style pretty well.

Thank you all for your input, hopefully things just keep improving.

Cheers!

 

[wilserbrewer]

Thanks AZBeer, I didn't realize there were RO stations outside of big stores, I will have to check that out.

Just an update for everyone on my most recent batch. After over 10 days in the fermenter, I finally decided to take a gravity reading and do a taste test to see how the fermentation was progressing. I previously failed to mention that my OG post boil was 1.050 (for slightly over 3 gallons) which was almost exactly on target, assuming ~75% efficiency. According to brewers friend my target FG was 1.015, and according to my hydrometer I hit 1.014 so it seems that everything was right on target. I will give props to the wyeast 1056 yeast because fermentation started very quickly and the majority of the krausen had dropped out by about 4 days after pitching. I also dry hopped 1 oz of centennial after 8 days of fermentation, dropping them directly into the fermenter without a hop bag. After tasting the beer (pre-carbonation) I am very satisfied with the overall flavor profile. It is very clean with just a slight residual sweetness, only slightly bitter (which I wanted), and has a great hop aroma/character. My plan is to cold crash on around day 12, then bottle on day 14 of fermentation. Interestingly, I used my tap water (charcoal filtered) for brewing, and it seems to compliment this beer style pretty well.

Thank you all for your input, hopefully things just keep improving.

Cheers!

Just my opinion, in the future I would suggest not opening your fermenter until day 14. Guessing your using a bucket fermenter?

I just feel that exposing the Co2 headspace and your beer to all that air, and to let it sit for another 4 days with likely air / o2 is not worth the data and taste test had.

Others may disagree, but the less you can muck with your beer the better, beer in a fermenter is best served sometimes by being ignored. Just my opinion.

I understand this was part of the learning practice, just felt it was a worthwhile comment.

Thanks

 

[javaking]

Just my opinion, in the future I would suggest not opening your fermenter until day 14. Guessing your using a bucket fermenter?

I just feel that exposing the Co2 headspace and your beer to all that air, and to let it sit for another 4 days with likely air / o2 is not worth the data and taste test had.

Others may disagree, but the less you can muck with your beer the better, beer in a fermenter is best served sometimes by being ignored. Just my opinion.

I understand this was part of the learning practice, just felt it was a worthwhile comment.

Thanks

Hi wilserbrewer,

I can see what you're saying, and I will definitely go out to the full 14 days next time. For this batch I used a plastic carboy, and when I pull samples for hydrometer readings I use plastic tubing connected to a turkey baster to minimize the amount of air introduced into the carboy. Either way, I agree with not messing around too much with beer during fermentation.

Just as a status update, I had bottled some of this beer and put the rest into my keg. I have to say that I was really happy with the results and it's definitely been my best beer to date. I feel that the 1056 yeast did a great job creating a clean beer that really just let the flavors of the hops and grain come through. It was a really simple flavor since I mainly used the Rahr 2-row (with a little caramel) and only centennial hops. I think I will definitely try to brew this one again, maybe using the full northern brewer dead ringer recipe. Appearance wise I thought it looked great and it came out surprisingly clear without even using gelatin. Finally, I did not detect any off flavors so I hope that I am heading in the right direction.

Thank you for all of the feedback and cheers!

 

[Cherokee6]

Javaking,

Glad to hear your brew came out the way you had hoped. It seems you have gotten a lot of good advice from this thread.

I, like you, conduct my brew day utilizing the BIAB method; however, I go even smaller; I brew 1 gallon batches. Dialing in recipes can be challenging since most recipes are built around 5 gallons. I am not sure what brew program you use, but I would recommend to you the BIABacus. You can get this program for free over at BIABrewer. This is a forum of all BIAB brewers and they have really helped me dial in BIAB recipes at such small sizes while maintaining the correct efficiencies. It has been helpful and might do the same for you.

Either way, good luck and drink more beer!