American IPA Trilium Melcher Street Clone

[bdunson911]

Ive made something almost exactly the same a couple times now. The difference maker is dry hopping in the keg under pressure and flushing everything with co2. Love this recipe.

 

[ultravista]

Ive made something almost exactly the same a couple times now. The difference maker is dry hopping in the keg under pressure and flushing everything with co2. Love this recipe.

What temperature are you dry hopping? Have you found a difference between ambient and serving dry hopping.

 

[TheBrewBrotha]

This has been such an informational thread in my attempts to brew a good NEIPA. I think one of the problems I'm having is bottling? Seems everyone is having great success with kegs. My beers come out when bottling bright like pineapple juice per se and superbly aromatic. Maybe about 5-7 days the color changes going a bit darker to almost cider like and this bitterness taste picks up heavy to where I'm just dumping bottles.

 

[bdunson911]

What temperature are you dry hopping? Have you found a difference between ambient and serving dry hopping.

I tried dry hopping and bottling around 9 degrees Celsius, which made bottling a nightmare. I backed down to 5 degrees celsius and had success, kept hop oils in suspension very well (lower temps drop everything out of suspension). I guess if you are going to serve straight from your keg, not sure if it really makes a difference. I dry hop in kegs with a stainless mesh canister, so I lay my keg on its side for the first couples days to increase contact and surface area of hops. will be making this recipe again soon. Cheers!

 

[Beer-lord]

I plan to start the first of 3 or 4 tries at at NEIPA over the next few months and have a few different recipes together already and have read every page of this thread.
It appears that the recipe on page 1 from the OP is a great place to start and I think I'll change my recipe up a bit to come closer to that one.
I plan to start with GY054 Vermont yeast for a few then maybe try either 007 or some other British Ale yeast as I tweak and play. And, I'll also play around with hops as I have lots and lots in the freezer just for these attempts.
Thanks to all for some great ideas and information on this.

 

[brew703]

This has been such an informational thread in my attempts to brew a good NEIPA. I think one of the problems I'm having is bottling? Seems everyone is having great success with kegs. My beers come out when bottling bright like pineapple juice per se and superbly aromatic. Maybe about 5-7 days the color changes going a bit darker to almost cider like and this bitterness taste picks up heavy to where I'm just dumping bottles.

Same thing happened to me when I brew NEIPA's so I quit brewing them. I bottle also and have no closed transfer system. I have no issues with any of the APA's or blondes I brew only the NEIPA's.

I think I may eliminate most of the dry hopping (on the next NEIPA brew)and put everything in a flameout and maybe save 2 oz for dry hopping and see how that turns out.

 

[Oldskewl]

Are you dry hopping during fermentation, say around day 3 or 4. Yeast will consume most of the oxygen during this phase.

 

[grassfeeder]

This has been such an informational thread in my attempts to brew a good NEIPA. I think one of the problems I'm having is bottling? Seems everyone is having great success with kegs. My beers come out when bottling bright like pineapple juice per se and superbly aromatic. Maybe about 5-7 days the color changes going a bit darker to almost cider like and this bitterness taste picks up heavy to where I'm just dumping bottles.

Yeah, honestly, air kills these beers. I wouldn't even attempt them unless you can do a fairly closed direct transfer to a keg.

 

[degivens]

Yeah, honestly, air kills these beers. I wouldn't even attempt them unless you can do a fairly closed direct transfer to a keg.

Agreed.

 

[TheBrewBrotha]

Are you dry hopping during fermentation, say around day 3 or 4. Yeast will consume most of the oxygen during this phase.

I am! But have been doing another charge on or about day 7 as well or when krausen drops.

 

[TheBrewBrotha]

Yeah, honestly, air kills these beers. I wouldn't even attempt them unless you can do a fairly closed direct transfer to a keg.

Good to know! Just ordered a two tap kegerator just for this style as I am looking to perfect it. Plus, I hate bottling

 

[marjen]

So I am going to try and brew the Fort Point Ale. I am basing this off the recipe posted in a magazine by JC. I did make a few adjustments as some of the numbers look off from what it should be. I am still off according to Brewers Friend but going to give this a try, how's it look?? This will be an extract 5 gallon batch with specialty grains steeped in prior and I am also going to do a yeast starter.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/453965/trillium-fort-point-clone

Fort Point Clone
6.6 lb golden liquid malt extract
1 lb wheat dried malt extract
4 oz dextrine malt
4 oz British crystal 22°L

6.5 lb Muntons Light DME
1 lb Briess Bavarian Wheat DME
8 oz Briess Carapis Malt
4 oz British crystal 20-25L

0.25 oz Columbus Hops @ 60 min
0.75 oz Columbus Hops @ 10 min
1 tsp irish moss @ 10 min
2oz Columbus at hop stand @ 180° for 30’

Wyeast British Ale 1098 Yeast @ 70°. Dry hop as krausen begins falling (day 4-5). (Or try 1056) (or WY 1318)

4oz Galaxy + 1 oz Columbus dry hop (after 3-4 days)
Keg on day 7. (3oz galaxy in keg)

 

[degivens]

Going for version 2 this weekend. 5 gal batch.

10 lbs 1.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 68.7 %
2 lbs 9.6 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 3 17.7 %
6.9 oz Carapils (Briess) (1.5 SRM) Grain 4 2.9 %
5.9 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.5 %
5.8 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.4 %
9.2 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 7 3.9 %
4.3 oz Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 8 1.8 %
0.52 oz Columbia [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 8.6 IBUs
1.05 oz Columbia [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 6.2 IBUs

Going to throw in a little lactose to soften it up even more. And this time going to dry hop a bit differently.

4.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
4.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Columbia [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Columbia [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days

Going to go with 150:150 SO4-Cl again, as that seemed to be pretty spot on.

Thoughts?

 

[OdeCloner]

Interested to see how the milk sugar impacts this beer. I've definitely heard of milk sugar in beers before, and in NEIPAs, but I've never tried it before. Please let us know how it goes!!

 

[marjen]

SO I had my first brew day and brewed the Fort Point clone. Used the following recipe:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebre...rt-point-clone

Fort Point Clone
6.5 lb Muntons Light DME
1 lb Briess Bavarian Wheat DME
8 oz Briess caramel malt 40L (by mistake was supposed to be carapils)
4 oz British crystal 15L

0.25 oz Columbus Hops @ 60 min
0.75 oz Columbus Hops @ 10 min
1 tsp irish moss @ 10 min
2oz Columbus at hop stand @ 180° for 30’ (did not do flame out, got confused and kept at 180 which went as high as 185)

Wyeast British Ale 1098 Yeast @ 70°. 1/2 batch and tried WLP 007 in the other half batch. Two different fermenters.

4oz Galaxy + 1 oz Columbus dry hop (after 4 days)
Keg on day 9. (2oz galaxy in each keg)

Cant wait to see how it turns out, had a couple bumps being my first time but I think most of the process went well, the others I will learn for next time.

I do have a question though. I am following the recipe that JC posted but it says it should be 45 IBU but when I type it into brewers friend or beer smith it comes back at like 29 IBU? Not sure why? Also it only comes back at 6.24 ABV instead of the 6.6 it should be. Any ideas?

Also I am planning on dry hopping on day 4, letting that sit in the primary for 5 days then putting it in the keg with additional hops. Does that sound about right for this beer?

 

[degivens]

Quick question for you guys: about to keg my second batch, from the recipe I provided above. I'm debating even taking a FG reading from my carboy prior to CO2 transfer just because i'm so cautious about the O2 exposure. Thoughts?

 

[nnfdcane]

Gave this recipe a try. Used grain bill from OP. Nose is awesome! Loaded with mosaic. Taste is a little on the sweet side and came out very dry despite mashing higher than I wanted @ 158. Used distilled water and added additions that someone recommended back on page 16.

 

[abbysdad2006]

Gave this recipe a try. Used grain bill from OP. Nose is awesome! Loaded with mosaic. Taste is a little on the sweet side and came out very dry despite mashing higher than I wanted @ 158. Used distilled water and added additions that someone recommended back on page 16.

Looks great!!

 

[marjen]

SO I brewed for the first time a couple weeks ago and did the fort point recipe I listed above. I took the wort and split it into 2 buckets. I used WY1098 for one batch and WLP007 for the other. I dry hopped both with 2 oz of galaxy on day 4. I moved to kegs on day 9. I added 2 oz of galaxy in the keg for both. I forced carbed at 30 PSI for 24 hours. I sample on day 10. The WY1098 is in the neighborhood of a trillium taste. Ok maybe like the same county. The WLP007 I find to taste nothing like a trillium beer. I actually have not been able to drink that beer at all, not sure if something else went wrong with that batch, I did have transfer issues so it was not closed, and maybe something got contaminated or something but its not enjoyable at all. I have continued to sample each day to see if it gets better, no luck so far.

The WY1098 is not bad. I has decent smell, the bitterness is similar to a fort point, but the taste is not quite there. It is not fruity at all. Now a made a few errors that first batch, notably messing up my whirlpool, but still was hoping for some better flavors.

Yesterday I brewed my second ever batch. I made a few minor adjustments to the recipe and I am using WY1318 this time. I also changed my whirlpool from 2 oz of columbus to 1 oz columbus, 1 oz citra and 1 oz galaxy. I am going to add 4 oz galaxy and 4 oz citra on day 3 and probably move to keg via closed CO2 transfer on day 7. Only problem I had this time was a crazy high OG reading. I burned through a ton of water, 6 ga went into the boil, just under 4 came out. A couple hours after moving to the fermenter I added about .75 ga to get closer to the 5 gallons I was expected, also the starter had 1 liter so added the whole thing as well. I have a blichmann quick carb so will probably carb this up on day 8 and see what it tastes like, hoping for some better results.

I am doing an extract version, not sure if that could kill some of the flavor? My understanding is most of the flavor should be from the hops so dont think that is the cause of my first batch not tasting up to par?

Here is a pic of the WY1098 version:

 

[OdeCloner]

Hi Marjen,
I can't speak to extract; I've never done this recipe using it.

Go back to the very first few pages and read my versions of the recipe again. Wyeast 1318 is really important to achieving this recipe, as are the massive dry hops. I also think that the pure Columbus boil is critical for achieving the body/base layer of flavor in this beer. The dry hops will take care of all the citrus/fruit flavors you need. I've never brewed this with Galaxy, nor does Melcher Street have any Galaxy in it, so I can't be of any help there.

Glad you're in there trying to get this right! Keep at it!

 

[marjen]

Hey Odecloner. I have read through this whole thread a couple times now Last time i did all columbus boil and whirlpool, this time i did all columbus boil and columbus/citra/galaxy whirlpool. I will probably go back to the all columbus whirlpool next time as I am trying to establish a base beer that I can then change up with different hop combination at the dry hopping stage.

I am also fermenting in a carboy this time and will do CO2 forced transfer. Hoping that helps a little. I did use 1318 this time so will see how that impacts the taste, hopefully for the better. Also going to dry hop on day 3 this time, did day 4 last time and I think fermentation was pretty much done by then.

I was going for a fort point vs a street clone, so recipe is slightly different as they do not use dextrine in fort point, the rest of the malt bill looks the same. Weird that 1318 might work best as JC has recommended WLP007 it seems and to me in my batch that is really far off. The WY1098 is much closer, and will compare to this batch when its done early next week.

I plan on using 8 oz of dry hops, 4 citra and 4 galaxy, let it sit on that for 3-4 days before moving to keg. Still debating if I should add any more hops in keg. I did this time.

 

[marjen]

So it's only about 48 hours post pitch but it looks like the Krusen is already falling. Wondering if I should add the dry hops tonight? I know 1318 is supposed to work fast but dang.

 

[stonebrewer]

I have added hops in day 2. I know others that have added hops before they even added yeast. I think you are okay adding them now...

 

[marjen]

I think I might split the difference and do it tomorrow morning. I was going to split, 1/2 tonight, 1/2 thursday but dont want to open the lid twice. I dont want to be too late with it but dont want to go too early either.

here are pics of what it looks like. This morning that was a nice fluffy 3 inch thick ring, now a big deflated mess

 

[OdeCloner]

Typically most of my fermentation with 1318 is done within 5-7 days. Usually when I dry hop on day 3, I'm dropping the hops into a big, thick, creamy layer of krausen. By day 5, and certainly by day 7 when I keg, it's done. So, depending on your temps, you could be done in a couple days.

 

[degivens]

Here's the final result of my galaxy, mosiac, citra combination with lactose.

Tastes incredible, nose is on point, and the mouthfeel is a lot better from adding a small amount of lactose. Went with 150:150ppm SO4/Cl this time, which to me seems spot on.

 

[marjen]

Dropped my dry hops in this morning. Its day 3 but looks like I am on the tail end of fermentation. I used 1 oz columbus, 3.5 oz Citra and 3.5 oz Galaxy. Plan on moving to keg sometime this weekend depending on how it looks. A couple q's

1. I dont want to open the carboy up again for gravity readings, any reason I can't wait until its pouring from the tap to take a final and see where I landed?
2. I am planning on carbing this with my blichmann quick carb. Could that have any positive or negative effect on hop smell/taste? Was not sure what running it through a carb stone would do to things. Don't want to ruin any hop smells.
3. I am going to push to keg via CO2.
4. Since I know have a total of 12 oz of hops, any reason to add another round in the keg? I was considering throwing another couple oz of each citra/galaxy in the keg, but not sure if that would do much considering I just added 8oz into the fermenter.

 

[degivens]

Dropped my dry hops in this morning. Its day 3 but looks like I am on the tail end of fermentation. I used 1 oz columbus, 3.5 oz Citra and 3.5 oz Galaxy. Plan on moving to keg sometime this weekend depending on how it looks. A couple q's

1. I dont want to open the carboy up again for gravity readings, any reason I can't wait until its pouring from the tap to take a final and see where I landed?
2. I am planning on carbing this with my blichmann quick carb. Could that have any positive or negative effect on hop smell/taste? Was not sure what running it through a carb stone would do to things. Don't want to ruin any hop smells.
3. I am going to push to keg via CO2.
4. Since I know have a total of 12 oz of hops, any reason to add another round in the keg? I was considering throwing another couple oz of each citra/galaxy in the keg, but not sure if that would do much considering I just added 8oz into the fermenter.

No problems taking FG once you keg it, just make sure the beer you take off the tap sits for a bit to remove carbonation that would affect the reading.

I haven't been keg hopping with this recipe -- but from what i've read it seems like a lot of people aren't too fond of it because it gives off an earthy/vegetal hop profile.

 

[marjen]

@degivens

150:150ppm SO4/Cl

Did you start with RO water? I am using RO and wondering how to get to 150:100ppm when starting with RO water. How many tsp or grams/ounces of each. Also I noticed you didnt add any whirlpool hops? Any reason for that?

 

[ultravista]

@degivens Did you start with RO water? I am using RO and wondering how to get to 150:100ppm when starting with RO water. How many tsp or grams/ounces of each.

Great question.

 

[degivens]

I whirlpooled columbus at ~170F for 30 min. Guess I forgot to put that in Beersmith -- oops! Also just noticed I entered in columbia hops vice columbus hops in beersmith ... I need to pay attention more!

I use my cities water, they have a handy website for brewers that gives you all the info you need. I take that info and plug it in to bru'n water excel sheet (if you don't have it...get it!). It tells me how much gypsum and CaCl to add based on my desired water profile. IIRC it was around 2-3g/gal of both in my specific case.

 

[marjen]

You know as I learn more about ingredients and their effect on the beer, I wonder why the BYO recipe for trillium fort point has Irish moss as an ingredient? From everything I am reading it's used to clear up beer, exact opposite of the look of these beers. Does Irish moss do anything else? If not I am going to remove it in the future.

 

[marjen]

And just for the record I am drinking a DDH Melcher St as we speak

 

[marjen]

So I think i am going to move my trillium fort point clone over to the keg today on day 5. Activity seems over or very close. A bubble maybe every couple mins. Everything seems to have settled out. I am not going to do a gravity reading until its in the keg. Don't want to introduce too much O2. Going to do a closed transfer via CO2 if all goes well. Need to work it between the hops on the top and the 2" deep trub on the bottom. Still not sure if I will add another dry hop to the keg? Maybe a couple oz each of citra/galaxy.

 

[marjen]

So not sure what to do. I moved it to the keg tonight. Did a CO2 transfer. Once it was in the keg I did a gravity reading. It is at 1.022. Now it did start really high like 1.096. I did add water to try and bring that down so not sure where it landed.

So should I cool it, warm it? Do to the high OG it still is preobably in the 6% range at the moment. A tasting sample and it tastes pretty good. So what to do?

 

[Oldskewl]

I would have left it on the yeast for a few more days. 5 days is pretty short. You can try warming it into the 72 degree range. But not much yeast left now that you have racked it.

 

[marjen]

So I ran the beer through the quick carb last night and then let it sit in the keg overnight. Don't think the FG will be an issue seeing how I feel after 1.5 pints or so, lol. Taste is definitely improved over the first batch and seeing how its only 7 days post pitch should get better over the next week. I am encouraged. Its not quite a fort point which is what I was going for, but its not bad. Still needs some work. I think the next batch is going to be all grain BIAB vs extract so should be able to dial it in even more.

 

[TomRep]

degivens- the picture you posted last says it's the citra/galaxy/mosiac dry hop batch, but the recipe you posted doesn't list mosiac. Am I missing it somewhere?

 

[degivens]

degivens- the picture you posted last says it's the citra/galaxy/mosiac dry hop batch, but the recipe you posted doesn't list mosiac. Am I missing it somewhere?

No you're not missing it -- I just suck at importing a fully correct beersmith recipe! I added the same amount of mosaic and galaxy for dryhop - 4oz.

When I get home i'll finalize the beersmith info and post a spot on recipe so I don't confuse folks

 

[TomRep]

Okay, thanks. Thought my old age was kicking in!