American IPA Trilium Melcher Street Clone

[couchsending]

I use the SS Brewtech Half-barrel Chronical with FTSS for chilling/temp control. It's not designed to handle pressure so not sure I'd be able to do that unless I keep it at say 1-2 PSI (rate at which it says it can handle for pressurized transfers).

How long did you crash for? My recipe calls for 1lb of hops in this dry hop addition so I'll definitely need to drop those out and dump through the cone.

You have the pressure transfer TC adapter they sell then dont you. It has a PRV built into it.

I have three 7g Conicals. I’ve got a three valve manifold I hook up to Co2. Each line has its own pressure transfer fitting attached to it. I’ll often pull the blow off slightly before FG and attach the pressure transfer fitting. Anything above 2.5 PSI gets blown off but it’s less Co2 I need to use. I usually don’t crash below 45 before I transfer and I’ll often do a slow crash, 5* at a time. A day at 45, pull remaining yeast/hops, then transfer with no clogging issues. I’ve put upwards of 14oz in 6 gallons I think.

 

[samandbekah]

You have the pressure transfer TC adapter they sell then dont you. It has a PRV built into it.

I have three 7g Conicals. I’ve got a three valve manifold I hook up to Co2. Each line has its own pressure transfer fitting attached to it. I’ll often pull the blow off slightly before FG and attach the pressure transfer fitting. Anything above 2.5 PSI gets blown off but it’s less Co2 I need to use. I usually don’t crash below 45 before I transfer and I’ll often do a slow crash, 5* at a time. A day at 45, pull remaining yeast/hops, then transfer with no clogging issues. I’ve put upwards of 14oz in 6 gallons I think.

Damn that sounds awesome and promising... Do you have a pic you can share? I want o attempt to rig up something similar but for just one vessel.

Not sure if I'll have enough time to cold crash at that rate, I'll probably have to do it a bit quicker - beer needs to be ready for an upcoming wedding... I'll shoot for that temp and hold for 24 hours (going to require A LOT of ice...)

So you pull the blowoff, add the Pressure Transfer TC adapter and then hook that up to CO2? At what rate? 2 PSI?

 

[couchsending]

Pull the blow off right before FG. Pressure will build but excess will be released by PRV. After a couple days Diacetyl rest you can crash. There will be enough head pressure to start an just open the Co2 slightly so if it drops below whatever the PRV can handle it’ll come on. Leave it on for a little while after you get to crash temps to ensure you maintain positive pressure.

 

[samandbekah]

Pull the blow off right before FG. Pressure will build but excess will be released by PRV. After a couple days Diacetyl rest you can crash. There will be enough head pressure to start an just open the Co2 slightly so if it drops below whatever the PRV can handle it’ll come on. Leave it on for a little while after you get to crash temps to ensure you maintain positive pressure.

Just to clarify, this is the prv I use for the pressure transfers... So the Barb end, I'm assuming you connect that to your co2 tank - but are you turning your gas on or just leaving it off for a couple days, then after diacetyl rest, turn gas on to 2 psi then continue to crash?

 

[couchsending]

Yeah I don’t turn on the gas until starting the crash.. enough head pressure will build if you put it on at the end of fermentation (obviously connected to the Co2 tank but not turned on ) that will stay through diacetyl rest. I have a small dedicated Co2 tank I just leave next to all my Conicals hooked up to the manifold so I don’t have to constantly swap back and forth between kegged beers, etc.

 

[chieftain]

Yeah I don’t turn on the gas until starting the crash.. enough head pressure will build if you put it on at the end of fermentation (obviously connected to the Co2 tank but not turned on ) that will stay through diacetyl rest. I have a small dedicated Co2 tank I just leave next to all my Conicals hooked up to the manifold so I don’t have to constantly swap back and forth between kegged beers, etc.

This is exactly my set up and process. Works great.

 

[samandbekah]

Yeah I don’t turn on the gas until starting the crash.. enough head pressure will build if you put it on at the end of fermentation (obviously connected to the Co2 tank but not turned on ) that will stay through diacetyl rest. I have a small dedicated Co2 tank I just leave next to all my Conicals hooked up to the manifold so I don’t have to constantly swap back and forth between kegged beers, etc.

This is exactly my set up and process. Works great.

Okay fantastic, thanks for the advice, going to try this this weekend... Looking forward to it!

 

[popquizkid]

Have you had success even with pellet hops? If so - up to how much? How do you have these connected - or what tubing/hardware are you using? Has it acted as any sort of filter that has knocked out some flavor/aroma/body?

I have dry hopped 6oz into primary and have transferred without issue. I use PET carboys. I have a carboy cap that has a connector for co2 in in one port and I put a stainless racking cane in the main hole. No screen or paint strainer bag on the racking cane. That is key as it will clog a screen with a large amount of dry hops. Out from the stainless racking cane I have a short silicone hose that connects to the in port on the strainer. I ordered it with hose barbs so it it easy to hook up to my silicone hoses. Another silicone host connects to the out port of the strainer and there is a a swivel nut on the other end that connects to the liquid disconnect on the corny keg. I can grab a picture of the setup if you are interested. It is pretty simple and works great.

As long as you buy a strainer that is not super fine it does not act as a filter or causes any issues with aroma loss that I can tell. Some of my best NEIPAs have been a single 6-7oz dry hop on day two in the fermenter and then transferred out through the strainer on day 10 or so. My next attempt is no dry hops in primary but transfer out with 4 gravity points left and spund in the keg with dry hops. Won't need the strainer for that method, but want to compare to see if there is a large difference.

I quit cold crashing my fermenters a while ago. I started noticing a HUGE dropoff in hop aroma in a couple batches after taking a sample before cold crash and after. I think oxidation was the cause. I know I could also hook up a device to catch the CO2 blowoff and use that to control oxidation with a cold crash, but with the strainer cold crashing in fermenter is totally unnecessary at this point for me.

 

[samandbekah]

Okay fantastic, thanks for the advice, going to try this this weekend... Looking forward to it!

So tried this last night and ugh what a frustrating kegging session... I think if it's going to cold crash, it probably needs a couple days at least... I crashed for about 36 hours, maybe a tad longer, down to 45 degrees and dropped all the hoppy yeast slurry out until the beer was clear... But the tiniest hop particles still were suspended (thinking partially the yeast is to blame for keeping it in suspension) and plugged up the ball lock... I'd take it off, clear it then try again but unfortunately eventually the same result would happen. Beer still smells and tastes great, just hoping I didn't lose too much aroma.

 

[popquizkid]

So tried this last night and ugh what a frustrating kegging session... I think if it's going to cold crash, it probably needs a couple days at least... I crashed for about 36 hours, maybe a tad longer, down to 45 degrees and dropped all the hoppy yeast slurry out until the beer was clear... But the tiniest hop particles still were suspended (thinking partially the yeast is to blame for keeping it in suspension) and plugged up the ball lock... I'd take it off, clear it then try again but unfortunately eventually the same result would happen. Beer still smells and tastes great, just hoping I didn't lose too much aroma.

I know the feeling. A clogged ball lock makes transfers take forever and undoubtedly causes more oxygen ingress than we would want. Alos frustrating as hell. That is exactly why I started using an inline strainer for anything that is dry hopped in the fermenter.

 

[anteater8]

I am fascinated by the all Columbus whirlpool in this beer. I think I got some of the most interesting, layered, dank hop flavor I've ever achieved from this recipe.

It got me thinking, has anyone ever done a massive Columbus whirlpool in a west coast IPA? I am thinking about giving it a go, and also dry hopping with fruity hops but of course with a west coast grain bill and clean American yeast.

 

[chieftain]

So tried this last night and ugh what a frustrating kegging session... I think if it's going to cold crash, it probably needs a couple days at least... I crashed for about 36 hours, maybe a tad longer, down to 45 degrees and dropped all the hoppy yeast slurry out until the beer was clear... But the tiniest hop particles still were suspended (thinking partially the yeast is to blame for keeping it in suspension) and plugged up the ball lock... I'd take it off, clear it then try again but unfortunately eventually the same result would happen. Beer still smells and tastes great, just hoping I didn't lose too much aroma.

I feel your pain. I deviated from my normal process, and tried transferring after 24 hours of dry hopping, without a cold crash...it didn't go well. Ended up racking into the bottom of the keg since the poppets kept getting clogged. I'm hopeful that the yeast still have some sugars to eat, and offset the oxygen ingress.

 

[samandbekah]

I know the feeling. A clogged ball lock makes transfers take forever and undoubtedly causes more oxygen ingress than we would want. Alos frustrating as hell. That is exactly why I started using an inline strainer for anything that is dry hopped in the fermenter.

Yes I completely understand why you would... I'm at a point investment wise in the hobby that I want to start maximizing my efficiency/success using the equipment I got... From what I've read it's definitely possible. That being said, I'm a firm believer that us homebrewers can produce just as good if not better beers than the pro brewers due to size of our batches.

In my case, I think if I wasn't rushing so much to get the beer ready for a wedding, I think this concept would be successful and something I'll definitely do again. I'm hoping to not have to buy additional equipment but if I max out my results with this method l and I'm still seeking greater results aroma/flavor wise then I'll definitely look up your strainer method.

 

[samandbekah]

I am fascinated by the all Columbus whirlpool in this beer. I think I got some of the most interesting, layered, dank hop flavor I've ever achieved from this recipe.

It got me thinking, has anyone ever done a massive Columbus whirlpool in a west coast IPA? I am thinking about giving it a go, and also dry hopping with fruity hops but of course with a west coast grain bill and clean American yeast.

My house IPA uses a West coast malt bill with this similar style hop amount and schedule... I used the California Ale yeast in the past with great results flavor wise, however I never attempted the second day in fermenting dry hop method this recipe calls for with LA3 yeast. Aromas are always solid but not quite what the results everyone here raves about using LA3. Definitely something I want to try with other hoppy beers and yeast strains.

 

[anteater8]

I brewed this with Citra in place of Mosaic and got 1st place in the IPA category in a local competition with a 40/50. Great recipe!

 

[VirginiaHops1]

You want out of the bag aroma you need to dry hop with as little yeast present as possible and dry hop in the low 60s. You either need a Conical so you can cool and dump yeast prior to DH or cool and transfer to another vessel without significant O2 pickup, which is no easy.

I've begun focusing on NEIPA recipes lately and I have 2 in serving kegs right now, different recipes but both to style. One big difference is first batch was crashed and transferred to a dry hop keg then massively dry hopped. The second batch was dry hopped right in the primary fermenting keg. Flavor and especially aroma are much brighter on the first batch. This will probably be my SOP going forward.

This Trillium recipe looks good, definitely adding to my queue

 

[BeerFst]

I've begun focusing on NEIPA recipes lately and I have 2 in serving kegs right now, different recipes but both to style. One big difference is first batch was crashed and transferred to a dry hop keg then massively dry hopped. The second batch was dry hopped right in the primary fermenting keg. Flavor and especially aroma are much brighter on the first batch. This will probably be my SOP going forward.

This Trillium recipe looks good, definitely adding to my queue

I assume you did biotrans in primary, then you are talking about your second dry hop, aka a keg hop?

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I assume you did biotrans in primary, then you are talking about your second dry hop, aka a keg hop?

I actually didn't do a biotrans/early dry hop for either of those batches. I dry hopped after fermentation finished. If by keg hop you mean hopping in the serving keg no I don't do that. When my dry hop was done I crashed again and transferred to serving keg. With the amount of dry hop I used I don't think I'd want my beer sitting in it for a month while I drank it.

I am doing a batch now where I'm doing an early dry hop during tail end of fermentation, then I'll crash and transfer to dry hop keg.

 

[BeerFst]

If by keg hop you mean hopping in the serving keg no I don't do that.
I am doing a batch now where I'm doing an early dry hop during tail end of fermentation, then I'll crash and transfer to dry hop keg.

yeah, serving keg is what I meant. That's just too many kegs to dirty for me. I didnt have a problem with my keg hop going grassy last i did it

 

[VirginiaHops1]

yeah, serving keg is what I meant. That's just too many kegs to dirty for me. I didnt have a problem with my keg hop going grassy last i did it

Another reason I like to use a separate dry hop keg vs serving, maybe the biggest reason, is I don't bag them. I drilled a hole in the metal hop filter and put the keg dip tube through it, so the hops can float free and not clog anything. I've read utilization takes a pretty big hit when bagged, and after how much more intense the aroma was on my first batch using that setup than previous ones I tend to believe it.

 

[BeerFst]

Another reason I like to use a separate dry hop keg, maybe the biggest reason, is I don't bag them. I drilled a hole in the metal hop filter and put the keg dip tube through it, so the hops can float free and not clog anything. I've read utilization takes a pretty big hit when bagged, and after how much more intense the aroma was on my first batch was using that setup than previous ones I tend to believe it.

I'm not bagging either, I either use a clear beer draft system (top draw instead of dip tube) or the scott janish dip tube filter, which is similar to what do you. I typically use the janish filter in the Fermenting keg tho, and then do my second dry hop in the SK with the CBDS. I am fermenting a beer now with the CBDS system in place for primary and intend to serve out of this keg as well, yeast and all. I have read this works well, and if it works for me i will probably get a few more of these.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I'm not bagging either, I either use a clear beer draft system (top draw instead of dip tube) or the scott janish dip tube filter, which is similar to what do you. I typically use the janish filter in the Fermenting keg tho, and then do my second dry hop in the SK with the CBDS. I am fermenting a beer now with the CBDS system in place for primary and intend to serve out of this keg as well, yeast and all. I have read this works well, and if it works for me i will probably get a few more of these.

I use the CBDS in my fermenting keg. I generally like it because it saved me from cutting a dip tube, although I had an issue last batch where I left too much beer behind. I think my tubing was a bit too long and it twisted as it got near the bottom and poked out of the beer. User error I think

 

[BeerFst]

I use the CBDS in my fermenting keg. I generally like it because it saved me from cutting a dip tube, although I had an issue last batch where I left too much beer behind. I think my tubing was a bit too long and it twisted as it got near the bottom and poked out of the beer. User error I think

i have actually only really tried this with the one batch, and after the keg kicked i was also surprised how much beer remained. That said i have had similar trouble with the janish filter, specifically when using some apricot in a beer. Both beers left at least a half gallon left, maybe a whole gallon but the remaining "liquid" was extremely soupy with either hops or fruit depending on the case. I had considered reducing the temp of my cold crash down further before serving to give it some more time to settle the next time i do this, though not sure if it would work.

 

[popquizkid]

Been thinking about brewing this or something like it for a while. Curious about one thing -- with the combination of the dextrose and the low mash temp doesn't this attenuate quite a bit, even more than suggested in recipe? I am okay with that as I really prefer a dry beer in most cases, but without dextrose I often get really good attentuation out of 1318 and other similar yeasts mashed at 155 and they easily attenuate this much in many cases.

I will note I don't typically use carapils in my NEIPA.

 

[OdeCloner]

This usually attenuates into the 1.013 - 1.015 range after many trials.

I tried every which way to do this in traditional carboys and PET bottles, both pressurized and not, and it was so frustrating with clogs as people have noted previously. I had some success by putting a bag over my racking cane, but that was its own unique irritation. I honestly never mastered a proper transfer out of a carboy, or got it to a point where it wasn't a sh*tshow every time.

Ultimately the biggest difference was doing closed transfers from a conical fermenter into a well-purged keg. With the conical, I can now do a pressurized cold crash and transfer under about 10PSI. It sucks that this is an option only available to those who've shelled out a bunch of $$ though. I wish I had something more useful for people who haven't.

 

[secretlevel]

I brewed up a Sleeper Street clone following BYO magazine recipe but I'm not sure if that's quite up to par in terms of color. I see other recipes in this thread using 18-20% wheat instead of 11-12% as in the recipe. However, I also see different pictures of Sleeper Street on the web... The one on Trillium's website matches my clone, but some other pictures on the web match Melcher Street's nice golden haze.

I also had a question about adding both dextrin/lactose AND corn sugar. Doesn't one add body and the other thin it out? This seems contradictory to me, what am I missing?

 

[stickyfinger]

they counteract each other and reduce malt flavor at the same time, as opposed to just using all malt for a given OG

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I also had a question about adding both dextrin/lactose AND corn sugar. Doesn't one add body and the other thin it out? This seems contradictory to me, what am I missing?

I think you're missing that your FG(1.018) ended up much higher than the BYO recipe with corn sugar(1.013). Perhaps you prefer it to finish there, but that would be the reason for subbing some corn sugar on a big grain bill. I don't look at it like they're contradicting each other, each one is independently just doing it's job.

 

[Kold Brygg]

After a Saison next I plan to to a NEIPA or Hazy. I like the hope schedule of this series. If I like, it It's a great base to try new hops and easy to do split batches. Unfortunatly Trillium ain't available here in Norway.

I plan to use hops I have in stock and not buy any new, so I've made som adjustments.
Will a reduced IBU @60 work?

Planned hop schedule.
@60min 0.1 oz/gal Columbus 18 IBU
@10min 0.15 oz/gal Columbus 13 IBU
@WP30min 0.3 oz/gal Comet 10 IBU (I don't have enough Columbus and currently don't have a plan for Comet)
@WP30min 0.15 oz/gal Columbus 5 IBU
@DH 1 oz/gal Nelson or Amarillo (I don't have Mosaic og Citra, I suppose both these would work here).
@DH 0.2 oz/gal Columbus

Will my hopschedule work?

 

[elproducto]

I have to say, Columbus is awesome in NEIPA.

I've started doing 3 oz. of Columbus in whirlpool, and then 6 oz. dry hop of a totally different hop (last time was El Dorado), it was amazing.

 

[Kold Brygg]

I've had 2 spilt batches with the street as a base. Spiltting dryhops between Amarillo (great), Nelson (great) and Yellow Sub (average).

Have anybody tried to add Black Malts or Carafa and just steep while sparging to make an Black Street?

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I have to say, Columbus is awesome in NEIPA.

I've started doing 3 oz. of Columbus in whirlpool, and then 6 oz. dry hop of a totally different hop (last time was El Dorado), it was amazing.

It's a nice, cheap hop to whirlpool with that adds alot of flavor. My last NEIPA that was one of my favorites had 1/3 of the whirlpool Columbus. I bet other c-hops like Centennial and Chinook would deliver too.

I think a lot of people disrespect the hot side on NEIPAs especially whirlpool and weigh it too much towards the dry hop.