Treehouse Brewing Julius Clone

[TxBigHops]

So I went back to the section of this thread where we were discussing flour, and I found this:

yeah. Ive used it (flour) in 2 IPAs and a hefe so far with good results. I figure its really not much different than just having excessive ground malt flour at the bottom of your grain container. It may not be what the pros do, but there is a hell of a lot of flour that gets made in those giant mills theyve got.

Makes sense. So even if they don't use a bag of milled flour from the grocery store, good chance there is still some pretty finely milled grains in there, which could contribute some to the haziness. Don't see how adding a bit more hurts anything. BTW, since asking my original question, I've found several other posts discussing the addition of flour, and it looks like folks are using around 4 oz per 5 gallon batch, so not too big of a deal. I am still curious whether those that do are accounting for any additional gravity points from it in their recipes. On one that I put together, I just noted 4 oz of flaked wheat to account for the flour. No idea if that would be close or not.

 

[KindofBlues71]

When I drink from TH I notice different "waves" of flavor. I believe they use the same malt profile for all of their hoppy beers and simply alter the hopping for different beers. Some of their packaging and site / blog / twitter information that's available was taken into consideration. The rest was done by the taste buds. For example:

I did a side by side with julius, curiousity 23, alter ego, and green the other day with a few seasoned brewers.

Consensus was that Julius was all citra. Keep in mind this beer started life as "Nate's Citra". With how secretive they are about their processes, it doesn't surprise me that they change the name to throw off cloners like us.

Green started with the citra flavor and finished with what we believed to be galaxy or possibly some moteuka (I cannot verify as I've never used moteuka).

Curiosity 23 started with how green finished, which lends itself to galaxy. It's finish was amarillo.

Alter ego started like Julius (citra) and had a very reminiscent finish to curiosity 23.

Researching the one recipe that I have found from nate from beer and brewing (https://beerandbrewing.com/VUKlMSgAABcrKfnm/article/hoppy-thing-recipe) it wouldn't surprise me if that grain base is extremely similar to what they actually use. Paired with a high flocculation yeast, I think this would be amazing.

I'm curious why you (and others in this thread) think Julius is all Citra. In that same issue Nate says that Julius is a "proprietary blend of hops". I posted the following excerpt from the article on the 2nd page of this thread:

Julius is brewed with a proprietary blend of hops. Lanier says many fans try to get him to reveal his secrets, but he won’t even confirm whether they guess right. “I spend a lot of time drinking Julius, evaluating it,” says Lanier. “No one really knows the blend [of hops]. It’s a blend. People try to guess and a lot of people think it’s a single hops. It’s absolutely not a single hops.”

 

[KindofBlues71]

Sorry for the duplicate post.

 

[Ruckusz28]

Through what internet research I could do I've come to many similar conclusions. Awesome tasting!

Julius - All USA Hops - Citra
Alter Ego - Julius base - Dry Hop: Mosaic and Amarillo
Haze - Any ideas? - "hops we currently have plenty of access to" - treehouse
Green - Australian and USA Hops - Citra? Galaxy/Motueka?
Sap - Mostly Chinook, Simcoe, Columbus

I recall watching a video a while back on youtube and seeing that they have some home grown hops. Perhaps that's what they consider having "plenty of access to".

 

[m00ps]

So I went back to the section of this thread where we were discussing flour, and I found this:



Makes sense. So even if they don't use a bag of milled flour from the grocery store, good chance there is still some pretty finely milled grains in there, which could contribute some to the haziness. Don't see how adding a bit more hurts anything. BTW, since asking my original question, I've found several other posts discussing the addition of flour, and it looks like folks are using around 4 oz per 5 gallon batch, so not too big of a deal. I am still curious whether those that do are accounting for any additional gravity points from it in their recipes. On one that I put together, I just noted 4 oz of flaked wheat to account for the flour. No idea if that would be close or not.

I'll use 4-8oz in the mash for anything I want to make hazy and lend some body (no conclusive evidence of this, but it does seem to contribute). I'll usually then add 2tbsp or so during the boil cause of something I read on the madfermentationist blog. I usually use wheat flour from the store for this purpose so I just count it as 4oz of wheat added to my mash

 

[kaz4121]

I recall watching a video a while back on youtube and seeing that they have some home grown hops. Perhaps that's what they consider having "plenty of access to".

Definitely not based on the volume they brew at. My guess would be more of the traditional American hops - Centennial, Columbus, Cascade, Chinook, etc with some of the newer American hops for flavor - Amarillo, Simcoe, Citra, Mosaic, etc

 

[kaz4121]

I'm curious why you (and others in this thread) think Julius is all Citra. In that same issue Nate says that Julius is a "proprietary blend of hops". I posted the following excerpt from the article on the 2nd page of this thread:

Julius is brewed with a proprietary blend of hops. Lanier says many fans try to get him to reveal his secrets, but he won’t even confirm whether they guess right. “I spend a lot of time drinking Julius, evaluating it,” says Lanier. “No one really knows the blend [of hops]. It’s a blend. People try to guess and a lot of people think it’s a single hops. It’s absolutely not a single hops.”

It was all Citra early on. Julius was actually called "Nate's Citra" when they first brewed it. Today it's definitely more than just Citra, they have plenty of dank on that recipe now, but definitely Citra heavy

 

[leesmith]

Thought this quote was interesting:

"Although Lanier says that freshness is the key, Rohan says it’s Lanier’s attention to detail, which is unmatched. “What he does better than anyone is pay attention to details,” says Rohan. “We were brewing a beer once, and we were having trouble getting the heat where we wanted it, so I was working on it. I got it to 158°F and told Nate, ‘It’s ready, let’s mash in.’ He said, ‘No, it has to be 167°F.’ He wouldn’t budge. I said, ‘We’ll have to wait another 25 minutes,’ and he said, ‘Then we’ll wait.’ I needled him about it for weeks after, and then it hit me. Things like that are why we don’t have problems in the brewery and why the beers come out the way they do.”"

 

[drewmarkwith]

Anybody have any clue what the other hop besides galaxy is in Green?

I brewed a CTZ/centennial/Galaxy IPA 5 days ago and my hydrometer sample today tasted very close to green. Will have to see if that changes with the dry hop, which will be the same 3 hops. I live an hour from Treehouse so will post my recipe and side by side with Green once my beer is carbed

 

[sjb523]

I only started brewing about a month or so ago, but I'm going to use this thread as a source for experimentation as I figure out what I'm doing. I went to Treehouse in December and got myself 8 cans of green. I was blown away. Never had Julius, but I'm going to work on that as well.

Anyway, I'm going to start with that recipe that Nate posted and work on some of the alterations and ideas that have been included here. I'm still on extract for now, but I'm going to work my way into BIAB during this process.

I brewed Nate's recipe this past weekend using extract. I had some possible contamination issues (dog slobber) prior to fermentation, so I'm going to taste when I rack to the secondary this weekend, and either run it again or make my first change.

Based on the notes in this forum, it sounds like everyone suspects that the grain bill in Nate's recipe is probably pretty close to what they actually use. If that's the case, I'm going to keep that constant and swap out other stuff. I'm going to start by changing 20 min and dry hop additions to all Citra (I'm using Simcoe as my 60 min because my local doesn't carry hop shots, and I'll probably keep that for the first few rounds). Then I'm going to switch my yeast over from 1056 to 1318, and maybe then move over to Conan.

After a few batches I'll probably move over to BIAB, and then maybe to regular old all-grain (but maybe not, depending on the results with BIAB).

I'm planning on keeping this thread updated as I work through this. Any other suggestions on the path I should follow?

 

[Ruckusz28]

Dog slobber? lol

I brewed by th inspired recipe last night seen earlier in these threads. My strike water was a bit hot and I initially mashed in at 167 (ironically enough). Because of this I missed my og by .020 Following boil I spiked my wort with some dme to get me up to 1.055.

I'm using the TH cultured yeast. And fermenting at 67 degrees currently. Providing it does its thing, I should be coming in right around 5.8% which is a little light.

I also got to try out my new small batch conical.

View attachment 1455549109975.jpg

 

[m00ps]

I brewed Nate's recipe this past weekend using extract. I had some possible contamination issues (dog slobber) prior to fermentation, so I'm going to taste when I rack to the secondary this weekend, and if either run it again or make my first change.

Please, please, please keep us posted

 

[ShyMatt10]

Hey guys, new to this hobby (already hooked bad) and found this thread. Mind sharing your extract recipe for "A Hoppy Thing"? I wanted to try the same, just curious what others have already tried or are trying with good results.

Also, found this recent post By Nate on Twitter when asked about a water profile/treatment. Obviously cryptic and understandably so, but every little bit helps.

https://mobile.twitter.com/treehousenate/status/697190895150592001

 

[TxBigHops]

Thought this quote was interesting:

"Although Lanier says that freshness is the key, Rohan says it’s Lanier’s attention to detail, which is unmatched. “What he does better than anyone is pay attention to details,” says Rohan. “We were brewing a beer once, and we were having trouble getting the heat where we wanted it, so I was working on it. I got it to 158°F and told Nate, ‘It’s ready, let’s mash in.’ He said, ‘No, it has to be 167°F.’ He wouldn’t budge. I said, ‘We’ll have to wait another 25 minutes,’ and he said, ‘Then we’ll wait.’ I needled him about it for weeks after, and then it hit me. Things like that are why we don’t have problems in the brewery and why the beers come out the way they do.”"

Is there a typo in the bolded text above? I would think that even most beginning brewers would know that dough in at 158 vs 167 is not even close to close enough. That's 9 degrees! I get pissed when I miss my mash temp by anything more than 1 degree.

 

[leesmith]

Yeah...not sure what's going on there. Maybe they mash in real high cause the grains cold or he got mash in confused with mash out? Or typo? That was copied and pasted from the article....that's how it is online.

 

[Ruckusz28]

Hey guys, new to this hobby (already hooked bad) and found this thread. Mind sharing your extract recipe for "A Hoppy Thing"? I wanted to try the same, just curious what others have already tried or are trying with good results.

Also, found this recent post By Nate on Twitter when asked about a water profile/treatment. Obviously cryptic and understandably so, but every little bit helps.

https://mobile.twitter.com/treehousenate/status/697190895150592001

Yep! That was me posing a question to him. If I brew his recipe, ideally i'd like it to come out as close to how he intended.

Here's the link to hoppy thing https://beerandbrewing.com/VUKlMSgAABcrKfnm/article/hoppy-thing-recipe

 

[ryancrook]

Is there a typo in the bolded text above? I would think that even most beginning brewers would know that dough in at 158 vs 167 is not even close to close enough. That's 9 degrees! I get pissed when I miss my mash temp by anything more than 1 degree.

Don't forget when you mash in you typically reach for a higher temp to compensate for the grain temp. Perhaps once all their grains are added to the 167 water it'll settle down to the right temp.

 

[leesmith]

Yeah...since I store my grains at room temp my system doesn't need such an extreme strike temp...maybe 4 or 5 degrees....sort of drew a conclusion there without really thinking about it....
I guess the real questions are: What do they typically loose at mash in? If the grain is at room temp and they only loose a few degrees are they are mashing high?
Does this help create their mouthfeel without using wheat or oats?

 

[Snubnoze707]

Seems like he's talking about strike water, but even then a 9 degree difference is pretty substantial.

 

[TxBigHops]

Don't forget when you mash in you typically reach for a higher temp to compensate for the grain temp. Perhaps once all their grains are added to the 167 water it'll settle down to the right temp.

The actual temps and whether they are right or wrong has nothing to do with my point. If Nate wants the mash water to be 167, how could his employee possibly think that 158 was close enough??? THAT is my point.

 

[arp]

Just joining this thread, but thought I'd contribute this - Nate posted a picture of the hops included in a recipe back in August:

https://twitter.com/treehousenate/status/632184058710216705

People with better palates than me can try and figure out which beer that goes with, but something they've brewed in the last 6 months has had that hop blend. And given how fresh they want people drinking their beer it was probably released a few weeks after this tweet.

I find it interesting that he manages his recipes with a spreadsheet, but I suppose Beersmith doesn't scale to commercial volumes.

 

[mbbransc]

BeerSmith does scale to commercial volumes. I've noticed many brewers like having brew logs on paper they can write on and keep with the beer as it moves through the brewery. I imagine Nate will print that out and write on it as the beer is brewed and ferments and moves into packaging.

 

[sjb523]

Just joining this thread, but thought I'd contribute this - Nate posted a picture of the hops included in a recipe back in August:

https://twitter.com/treehousenate/status/632184058710216705

People with better palates than me can try and figure out which beer that goes with, but something they've brewed in the last 6 months has had that hop blend. And given how fresh they want people drinking their beer it was probably released a few weeks after this tweet.

I find it interesting that he manages his recipes with a spreadsheet, but I suppose Beersmith doesn't scale to commercial volumes.

Coulda been In Perpetuity. Looks like the timing is right for that, and it's got Citra and Nelson.

 

[Ruckusz28]

Coulda been In Perpetuity. Looks like the timing is right for that, and it's got Citra and Nelson.

It almost also fits the bill for Green. I'm not 100% about Nelson being in Green, but you never know with the proportions of the bill. Either way, good info for pairing in the future.

 

[bizoneill]

If you are on facebook there is a great group of people working on the same idea. Check it out here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1651130348490612/

Also I believe these are the hops in TH beers.

Julius - Columbus Citra Amarillo
Green - Columbus Galaxy Citra
Haze - Columbus Citra

 

[robopp]

I can't remember why I know this, but I'm pretty confident that Haze is predominantly Amarillo. I think I asked when I was getting a growler filled a couple years back when the were across the street and you could just walk in and out for growlers.

 

[bizoneill]

I could definitely see Amarillo in Haze.

 

[Ruckusz28]

Can't say I've had haze I'd happy take a can if anybody is offering!

I just attempted to join that group. Could you add me?

 

[bizoneill]

Were you already accepted? I didn't see any requests.

 

[robopp]

I just requested access too, but haven't been added yet.

 

[mbbransc]

I just requested access too, but haven't been added yet.

ditto

 

[sjb523]

If you are on facebook there is a great group of people working on the same idea. Check it out here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1651130348490612/

Also I believe these are the hops in TH beers.

Julius - Columbus Citra Amarillo
Green - Columbus Galaxy Citra
Haze - Columbus Citra

That's interesting. Nate's Hoppy Thing recipe has Simcoe as bittering. I was planning on keeping that in there for a round or two once I switch my 20min and dry hops over the Citra and then moving over to Columbus for bittering.

There's Amarillo in that recipe too. Maybe I'll come back around to adding that back in after experimenting with all Citra for a while.

I also noticed that Bear Flavored's list of the # of hops in the best IPAs lists 3 hops in Julius and it says it is based on a confirmation from the brewer.

 

[KindofBlues71]

ditto

Same here!

 

[ultravista]

ditto same here

 

[mbbransc]

I'm in, thx biz!

 

[bg1414]

Transferred to dry hop keg last night. Gravity spot on. Smelled and tasted great.

View attachment 1455892406544.jpg

 

[skibb]

Has anyone degassed a sample of Julius to get an accurate OG/FG to work off of?

 

[robopp]

Has anyone degassed a sample of Julius to get an accurate OG/FG to work off of?

Yes, post #25 of this thread. He even included a picture. The measured FG of Julius is around 1.012-1.013

 

[sjb523]

I only started brewing about a month or so ago, but I'm going to use this thread as a source for experimentation as I figure out what I'm doing. I went to Treehouse in December and got myself 8 cans of green. I was blown away. Never had Julius, but I'm going to work on that as well.

Anyway, I'm going to start with that recipe that Nate posted and work on some of the alterations and ideas that have been included here. I'm still on extract for now, but I'm going to work my way into BIAB during this process.

I brewed Nate's recipe this past weekend using extract. I had some possible contamination issues (dog slobber) prior to fermentation, so I'm going to taste when I rack to the secondary this weekend, and either run it again or make my first change.

Based on the notes in this forum, it sounds like everyone suspects that the grain bill in Nate's recipe is probably pretty close to what they actually use. If that's the case, I'm going to keep that constant and swap out other stuff. I'm going to start by changing 20 min and dry hop additions to all Citra (I'm using Simcoe as my 60 min because my local doesn't carry hop shots, and I'll probably keep that for the first few rounds). Then I'm going to switch my yeast over from 1056 to 1318, and maybe then move over to Conan.

After a few batches I'll probably move over to BIAB, and then maybe to regular old all-grain (but maybe not, depending on the results with BIAB).

I'm planning on keeping this thread updated as I work through this. Any other suggestions on the path I should follow?

Dog slobber not withstanding, my extract Hoppy Thing tasted great when I moved it over to the secondary yesterday. Really sweet and juicy. I'm going to dry hop in about a week and we'll see what happens. I'm also going to convert the recipe over to citra and brew a second batch next week.

 

[tagz]

Dog slobber not withstanding, my extract Hoppy Thing tasted great when I moved it over to the secondary yesterday. Really sweet and juicy. I'm going to dry hop in about a week and we'll see what happens. I'm also going to convert the recipe over to citra and brew a second batch next week.

Why are you letting your beer sit in secondary for a week before you dryhop?