Treehouse Brewing Julius Clone

Williams 728
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But, "Milkshake IPAs" are a thing now, so there really is no right or wrong answer as to what is suitable. I'm just pointing out the linguistic difference.

Lemonade is hazy, milk is opaque.
You beer is actually beautiful to my eyes - that color is gorgeous, and I don't mind the opacity, but make no mistake, based on that picture, it is not hazy, it is opaque. That's all.
And I'm sure it's delicious.

I'm a writer, so words mean things to me, and accurate use of descriptors is important. If you called it a blue IPA, I might also correct you that it isn't blue. :mug:
 
I'd like multiple people to chime in on this, but when you say "Dry hop on day 3" are you counting the day you brewed as Day 1 or the following day as Day 1?

Cavpilot2000 said:
Sure thing.

5 gallon batch
8 lb 2-Row Pale Malt (56.1%)
3 lb Vienna Malt (21.1%)
1 lb Flaked Wheat (7%)
1 lb Flaked Oats (7%)
1 lb Honey (7%)
4 oz Honey Malt (1.8%)
Note: The honey is 7% by weight, but it contributes much more than that to the fermentable sugar percentage.
FWIW I use WLP007 for yeast. With this recipe it got me from 1.074 to 1.013 (8% abv and super-drinkable).

I tweak my hops schedule every time, but here is the one that was most like a Green/Julius hybrid:
1 oz Simcoe - 15 min boil
1 oz Citra- 5 min boil
1 oz Mosaic - 0 min flameout
1 oz Citra day 3 dry hop
1 oz Galaxy day 3 dry hop
2 oz Citra day 6 dry hop
2 oz Galaxy day 6 dry hop

On another I used just Galaxy/Citra/Azacca in equal parts.
My next iteration will be ABC (Azacca/Bravo/Citra). I'm really digging Azacca for tropical fruit flavors, possibly even more than Galaxy.

Picture: Julius on the left, mine on the right.
I call it "I Like Big Hops (and I Cannot Lie)"
Click to expand...
 
I usually just wait around 60 hours after I pitch would be 2.5 days technically after yeast is pitched. Just wait for the krausen to start subsiding and a decrease in airlock activity. That's usually when you're within a few points of FG and ready for your first round of dry hops. I'll then wait for the airlock activity to slow way way down to add the larger second round of DH to keep those aromas in the beer and not out in the bubbles
 
Anyone have experiments or studies on dry hop times/amounts? I know Scott jannish gots some good stuff and maybe brulosophy guys?
 
Gustatorian said:
I'd like multiple people to chime in on this, but when you say "Dry hop on day 3" are you counting the day you brewed as Day 1 or the following day as Day 1?
Click to expand...

It's more important to target an attenuation %, that will be somewhat specific to your system. But to answer you question, I usually do days post pitch, so day 1 is 24 hours after brew day.
 
isomerization said:
It's more important to target an attenuation %, that will be somewhat specific to your system. But to answer you question, I usually do days post pitch, so day 1 is 24 hours after brew day.
Click to expand...

This USC the plan I follow also. So if I pitch Friday at 5pm then Saturday at 5pm would be 24hrs later and I consider that day 1 so Monday would be day 3 and that's when I would do the first rd of dry hops.
 
olotti said:
This USC the plan I follow also. So if I pitch Friday at 5pm then Saturday at 5pm would be 24hrs later and I consider that day 1 so Monday would be day 3 and that's when I would do the first rd of dry hops.
Click to expand...

The yeast you are using makes a big difference too, as some can be quite fast, like London III needs an addition at like day 1.5
 
isomerization said:
The yeast you are using makes a big difference too, as some can be quite fast, like London III needs an addition at like day 1.5
Click to expand...

Yes, I found this to be true with the 1318 I just racked to keg. The entire fermentation process only took 4 days and I added dry hop addition #1 on day 2. Had I waited until day 3, I would have missed it.
 
Jmash said:
I'd like to introduce some Nelson hops into the mix.
My last batch was:
30 min whirlpool of:
2 oz. citra
2 oz. mosaic
1.0z simcoe

Dryop @4th day of:
2 0z. citra
1 oz. mosaic
1 oz. simcoe

Same dryhop @ 10th day

Which hop additions would you recommend swapping for Nelson? I have 4 oz. on hand.


;
Click to expand...

I ended up bittering for 60 minutes with .5 oz warrior, and doing 2 oz mosaic/1 oz simcoe/1oz citra/1oz Nelson at 160 degrees whirlpool for 30 minutes
Dry hop day 4. 1 mosaic/1 citra/1 simcoe/1 Nelson
Dry hop day 11. 2 citra/1 mosaic/1 simcoe.

Beer is way too bitter after 4 weeks in the bottle. :( Not sure if the 2 oz of nelson is to blame
 
I think following attenuation/gravity reading makes more since than choosing the day to dry-hop. But pulling gravity reading with a hydrometer will waste a lot of beer. Any way to follow it with a refractometer? Any suggestions at what gravity to do the first dry hop? I assume the 2nd dry hop would want to be within 4-5 points of hitting FG.
 
Gustatorian said:
I think following attenuation/gravity reading makes more since than choosing the day to dry-hop. But pulling gravity reading with a hydrometer will waste a lot of beer. Any way to follow it with a refractometer? Any suggestions at what gravity to do the first dry hop? I assume the 2nd dry hop would want to be within 4-5 points of hitting FG.
Click to expand...

I prefer to just look at the fermentor and notice when it seems to have died back a bit. That way you don't have to expose the beer to oxygen. I really don't think a few days difference is going to be significant, but I could be wrong. You can use a refractometer to measure gravity anytime during the fermentation. You just have to have the original refractometer reading and a conversion equation (readily found online.)
 
Has anyone tried doing a (somewhat) scientific side-by-side comparing dry hopping by pre-loading (I.e. When pitching yeast) versus at say 80% of the way to total attenuation? Would simplify things a lot if there isn't much difference!!
 
I've been following this whole thread so thought I should chime in with my first attempt. Pretty pleased overall - flavor is excellent, aroma is good, color is good but a little more translucent than I wanted, mouthfeel great but could maybe be a little softer (will probably try higher Cl:SO4 next time)

For 5.5 gallons (only 65% efficient ��):
9.5lb Maris otter
2lb flaked oats
1.25lb carafoam
1.25lb white wheat
0.5lb honey malt

Did hop addition of 1oz each citra, Amarillo, mosaic at flameout, whirlpool 30 min at 170, dry hop at high krausen, and dry hop for 3 days after fermentation complete

100:100 chloride to sulfate

I wanted to do closed co2 transfer but it was failing so exposed to oxygen then as well as AGAIN when keg tube got clogged up, the hops are maybe less sharp bc of that I would have no idea but I at least haven't had any bad flavors from that happening (yet anyway)

Overall favorite beer I've ever made and will be trying a lot more iterations!

20170514_191620.jpg
 
Used a little bit of info from a few different clones and a recommendation from my LHBS guy for the Irish pale malt.
This recipe is fantastic. Try and enjoy
Poland springs water and additions:

Water Additions to each 5 gallon mash and 5 gallon fly sparge water:
CaCl 1 tsp
Gypsum 1/2 tsp
Kosher salt 1/8 tsp
Epsom salt 1/4 tsp
1/8 tsp citric acid.
PH 5.20

Mashed @ 154 degrees for 60 minutes and fly sparged

10.64 gal Poland Spring (R) Water 1
7 lbs Irish Ale Malt (2.8 SRM) Grain 2 38.4 %. I truly believe this malt makes this recipe
7 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 38.4 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Oats, Malted (Thomas Fawcett) (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.8 %
1 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 5 5.5 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.7 %
8.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 7 2.7 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 8 2.7 %
4.00 ml HopShot [10.00 %] (ISO Extract) - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 15.6 IBUs
8.0 oz Turbinado [Boil for 10 min](10.0 SRM) Sugar 10 2.7 %

2.5 oz citra
2.0 oz mosaic
1.0 oz simcoe. Whirlpool @160 degrees for 30 mins

Dryhop # 1 on day 3 or 4
1.5 citra
1.0 mosaic
.75 simcoe

Dryhop #2 on day 12 in dryhop keg
1.5 citra
1.0 mosaic
.75 simcoe.

O2 free transferred to serving keg and forced carbed on day 14
 
Few questions...

1. With ~18+ lbs malt and sugar on top of it, what sort of OG are you calculating here? Or are you simply compensating for poor efficiency. If this is a 5 gallon batch I'd assume something near 1.09+

2. What are your water ppm that you're shooting for then with the tsp additions listed?

3. Yeast? Ferm temps?

Thanks for the share, btw
 
1) 7.5 gallons post boil
6.25 or so into fermenter.
5 gallons into corny keg
OG 1.072
FG 1.013

2) No math figured for water ppm. Just random internet info and average recommendations

3) 1318 w 1.5 liter starter 48 hours in advance. I use the same ferm temp technique as Braufessor uses in his epic Northeast IPA thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=568046


Braufessor said:
I tend to start fermentation off around 62 at let it free rise to 66-68 degrees through the first 3 days or so of fermentation. At that point, I like to move it somewhere that it can finish off in the 68-70-72 range.
Click to expand...
 
braindead said:
So has anyone got the perfect recipe yet.
I`m just about to purchase my malt and hops.
Do you think Golden promise pale Malt would be a good base
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=17

Please someone post an updated perfect 5 gallon recipe as i`m brewing it for my wedding

Thanks
Click to expand...

Golden Promise is my go to base malt. Love it. Especially in this style. It's a little sweeter so you can finish a bit drier without it seeming dry (if that makes sense). I actually have one finishing up with GP and a little oat. All mosaic... I guess you could say my take on Mosaic Promise. Just added my dry hop and took a gravity reading. Taste from that was damn good. Really looking forward to it.
 
Little_Lebowski said:
11# golden promise
3# white wheat
1# carapils
1# flaked wheat
6 oz honey malt

Citra/Rakau/Galaxy in that order of percentages
7 oz between 5min and whirlpool
8 oz dry hops (2 as ferm slows and 6 post ferm)
Gigayeast VT
Click to expand...

Hey LL I really like the look of this recipe. I purchased the grains today for it. Any chance you can elaborate a little more on the recipe? Batch size? Mash time and temp? Ferm schedule? Also not quite sure how to break down the hop schedule by percentages. Any input on that? Newer to advanced brewing. Thanks in advance for anymore insight.
 
cgreene said:
Hey LL I really like the look of this recipe. I purchased the grains today for it. Any chance you can elaborate a little more on the recipe? Batch size? Mash time and temp? Ferm schedule? Also not quite sure how to break down the hop schedule by percentages. Any input on that? Newer to advanced brewing. Thanks in advance for anymore insight.
Click to expand...

Yeah sure thing:

11# golden promise
3# white wheat
1# carapils
1# flaked wheat
6oz honey malt
4oz corn sugar (15 min remaining in boil)
.25 whirfloc tablet (15 min remaining)

Water:
Distilled water 9 gallons
I throw all salt additions into one gallon of room temp distilled water the night before to get everything nice and dissolved (Mark cap with a sharpie to make sure it gets added to mash water)

10 grams calcium chloride
2 grams gypsum
2 grams Epsom salts
I've been using this as my go to IPA addition for sometime so I can't recall the exact concentrations of each but I'm pretty sure it's around 200:100 chloride to sulfate. All additions are added to the mash. I add in 1-2mL lactic 88% to bring the pH into sweet spot. I don't get super crazy about these numbers anymore but more ballpark

Mash 5 gallons at 164F for a 152F mash for 60 min
Batch sparge 3.75 gallons at 175F

Add whirfloc and corn sugar at 15
1 oz each citra/Rakau/galaxy at 5
2 oz citra 1 oz rakau 1 oz galaxy 180F whirlpool 20 min

2L starter of Conan pitched at 67F

Day 3 or once krausen starts to fall add first round of dry hops
1 oz citra
1 oz galaxy



Wait till activity COMPLETELY stops. Usually around a week or so
Drop temp to 60F
Add 2nd round of dry hops
4 oz citra
2 oz Rakau
Dry hop for 3-4 days

WORK SUPER HARD AT COLD SIDE OXYGEN EXPOSURE!
Try your best to keep sampling and cracking that carboy lid to a bare minimum. This I have found to be the biggest aroma killer

I keg my beers and kegged this one around day 8-9. Took a few days to carb up but I found this REALLY shined at about 10 days after being kegged.

Feel free to message me or ask for any other pointers about this one. Good luck! Excited to see how it goes for you
 
Hi there, french brewer here..

Little lebowsky, dont you find some "orange peel" in the Rakau too? I used it for a while right now, and combined with Waimea it's a truely bitter orange (Orange flower, orange peel, whatever)
I thought about not using it in my next DIPA... but focus on citrus, resinous, passion fruit stuff.
Here is my next brew (translate for 5.5 Gallons, i'm brewing on 20bbl):

Grist :
Pale Ale 60%
Flakes oat : 18%
Pilsen 16%
Dextrose : 4%

I was aiming 44 IBU (on the bittering side) with waimea... but after some reads on that topic, maybe it would be a bad idea?

Waimea @FWH 44 IBU

Mosaic 1oz @flameout 20min
Galaxy 1oz @flameout 20Min

Mosaic 1oz @Dry Hop (High krausen) => 10/14 days
Galaxy 1oz @Dry Hop (High krausen) => 10/14 days

Mosaic 2oz @Dry Hop 5 days - Cryo


155°F mash - 60min

Water profile :

Ca 91.4
Mg : 2.2
Na 10.4
Cl 144.4
SO4 53.8
HCO 0

If you have some advice...
 
My Rakau recipe above, although in the Julius thread (I know and apologize), wasn't necessarily a clone. The malt bill surely is a great base to try and nail down the hop combination for julius, but as for mine with the citra galaxy and Rakau it was not necessarily going for Julius. It was very peachy and apricoty from that's rakau. First time I used it and I loved how it came out.

As for your recipe... I'd do a straight swap out the pilsner for wheat malt to help in the appearance and body. Back the flaked oats down a bit and do a 50/50 addition of flaked oats/carapils. Lastly I'd save yourself 3-4% for a little c15-c20 for a little color and sweetness.

As for the hops... you've got basically 2 oz in the entire hot side of your brew. Not saying there's anything wrong with that but if you decide to keep it there I'd massively increase your dry hop additions. You could keep the fermentation addition at 2 oz, I personally don't like to waste a huge addition while there's so much airlock activity. That second addition though after fermentation is complete you could easily get away with at least a 6 oz addition. I'd do 2 oz each of your galaxy and mosaic but toss in an extra 2 oz of citra as well.

I've never bittered with Waimea so can't comment on that. For a safe bet though either toss in an oz of Columbus or magnum or warrior at 60min or do a .5 oz FWH with Columbus. You definitely have room in your kettle for the IBUs
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
Okay, so I'll post my hop schedule with a BIG caveat:
this batch has much more bitterness than my last one, largely due to going too big on the flameout addition. Then after about a month in the keg, when the volatile fresh hops was fading, I closed-loop transferred it to a 2.5 gal keg with 2 more oz of Galaxy dry hop. The result: while the flavor is spot on to what I was aiming for (and fresh once again due to the second keg dry hop), the bitterness is approaching west coast IPA bitterness. I left that out of the description because it was an error on my part that doesn't take away from the flavor and aroma.

Also, it was my first time using Azacca. I used it because it supposedly adds tropical fruit, and I wanted to move away from the dankness I got from my previous batch (further below). I did not get a strong dankness from the Galaxy. A little, but not on par with Simcoe.

Here is what I did:
1 oz Azacca - 15 min boil
0 min flameout:
1 oz each: Azacca, Citra, Galaxy
Dry Hop - H Kreusen:
1 oz each: Azacca, Citra, Galaxy
Dry Hop - Post-ferm:
1 oz each: Azacca, Citra, Galaxy
Next time I would only use Citra in the flameout and either push the other two ounces into dry hop or even keg hop.

The batch before was also excellent, but a little more dankness than I wanted. But here it is:
1 oz Simcoe - 15 min boil
1 oz Citra- 5 min boil
1 oz Mosaic - 0 min flameout
1 oz Citra day 3 dry hop
1 oz Galaxy day 3 dry hop
2 oz Citra day 6 dry hop
2 oz Galaxy day 6 dry hop
Click to expand...


What would you say your target bitterness is? I know beersmith doesn't calculate whirlpool hops or dry hop residual bitterness (debated topic) very well or at all, but without those factors i'm getting pretty low numbers. It's basically a pale ale bitterness (~31 IBU) with a slightly higher ABV.

Also do you whirlpool or just flameout & chill?

I'm sorry if you've repeated this before, I've gone through 30 pages and couldn't find an answer! Cheers :mug:
 
My last few batches. Ive used 4mil hopshot at 60 min and not added anything until 160 degree/half hour whirlpool. 2 dryhop additions the same. No aggressive bitterness. I was planning on adding an oz of galaxy in the closed loop transfer if needed but I dont think the beer is going to last long enough ha.
 
GreenCheek said:
What would you say your target bitterness is? I know beersmith doesn't calculate whirlpool hops or dry hop residual bitterness (debated topic) very well or at all, but without those factors i'm getting pretty low numbers. It's basically a pale ale bitterness (~31 IBU) with a slightly higher ABV.

Also do you whirlpool or just flameout & chill?

I'm sorry if you've repeated this before, I've gone through 30 pages and couldn't find an answer! Cheers :mug:
Click to expand...

I actually do aim for low bitterness (30-40 IBU) because my favorite versions of NEIPA (Julius, Green) are very low on bitterness.

I have done both. Usually I like to fo flameout and chill, but on this last version (the too bitter one), I did an actual whirlpool (with the boil hops staying in for the ride).

It's worth noting that while I got a lot more bitterness than I wanted, it still wasn't an aggressively bitter beer. I'd say it was in the 50-60 IBU range. But I don't want my NEIPA bitter, I want it smooth and quaffable.
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
I actually do aim for low bitterness (30-40 IBU) because my favorite versions of NEIPA (Julius, Green) are very low on bitterness.

I have done both. Usually I like to fo flameout and chill, but on this last version (the too bitter one), I did an actual whirlpool (with the boil hops staying in for the ride).

It's worth noting that while I got a lot more bitterness than I wanted, it still wasn't an aggressively bitter beer. I'd say it was in the 50-60 IBU range. But I don't want my NEIPA bitter, I want it smooth and quaffable.
Click to expand...

Julius and Green are over 100 IBUs, the goal in attempting to close Julius and Green is getting a smooth bitterness, not a low bitterness. Supposedly extracts play a role here.
 
IBU is a very relative and subjective term. Any calculation that puts Julius at 100+ IBU is both flawed from the conventional concept of what IBUs are supposed to measure (perceived bitterness) and is working solely on a formula measuring amount of hops involved, not isomerization of acids or perceived bitterness.
Drink a Julius next to a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and tell me which one comes across as more bitter on the palate. I'll give you a hint, it's not Julius.
 
Little_Lebowski said:
My Rakau recipe above, although in the Julius thread (I know and apologize), wasn't necessarily a clone. The malt bill surely is a great base to try and nail down the hop combination for julius, but as for mine with the citra galaxy and Rakau it was not necessarily going for Julius. It was very peachy and apricoty from that's rakau. First time I used it and I loved how it came out.

As for your recipe... I'd do a straight swap out the pilsner for wheat malt to help in the appearance and body. Back the flaked oats down a bit and do a 50/50 addition of flaked oats/carapils. Lastly I'd save yourself 3-4% for a little c15-c20 for a little color and sweetness.

As for the hops... you've got basically 2 oz in the entire hot side of your brew. Not saying there's anything wrong with that but if you decide to keep it there I'd massively increase your dry hop additions. You could keep the fermentation addition at 2 oz, I personally don't like to waste a huge addition while there's so much airlock activity. That second addition though after fermentation is complete you could easily get away with at least a 6 oz addition. I'd do 2 oz each of your galaxy and mosaic but toss in an extra 2 oz of citra as well.

I've never bittered with Waimea so can't comment on that. For a safe bet though either toss in an oz of Columbus or magnum or warrior at 60min or do a .5 oz FWH with Columbus. You definitely have room in your kettle for the IBUs
Click to expand...

Thanks mate !
I dont have any carapils :(
 
melville said:
Julius and Green are over 100 IBUs, the goal in attempting to close Julius and Green is getting a smooth bitterness, not a low bitterness. Supposedly extracts play a role here.
Click to expand...

Double post, but I meant to quote in the first one.


IBU is a very relative and subjective term. Any calculation that puts Julius at 100+ IBU is both flawed from the conventional concept of what IBUs are supposed to measure (perceived bitterness) and is working solely on a formula measuring amount of hops involved, not isomerization of acids or perceived bitterness.
Drink a Julius next to a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and tell me which one comes across as more bitter on the palate. I'll give you a hint, it's not Julius.
 
So this was my second attempt at Julius. It's been a year since I had the real thing, so not sure it's spot on, but it's damn tasty. Did a 10 gallon batch and split into 2 fermenters. One with 1318 and the other with my standby 1968 ESB. They are very different beers. 1968 isn't remotely close to a New England style in appearance, nose or fruitiness. The beer on the left is 1318 and the right is 1968

Julius clone-2nd version
10 gallons

22lbs Maris otter
4lb white wheat
5lb carafoam
1.5lb flaked oats

Mash water-9 gallons at 165 degrees for mash at 154. Rest for 60. Sparge water 9 gallons at 170. Collected 13 gallons

OG- 1.076

1oz mosaic-45
1oz Amarillo-45
2oz each citra, mosaic Amarillo- 15
2oz each citra, mosaic Amarillo - 10
1oz mosaic, Amarillo and 2oz citra- 5
2oz each mosaic, citra, Amarillo 30 min steep at 170 degrees

Wyeast 1318 and 1968 in different fermenters

On day 4 of fermentation, 1oz each into each fermenter
FG on 1318 was 1.016

image.jpg
 
fatnhappy said:
So this was my second attempt at Julius. It's been a year since I had the real thing, so not sure it's spot on, but it's damn tasty. Did a 10 gallon batch and split into 2 fermenters. One with 1318 and the other with my standby 1968 ESB. They are very different beers. 1968 isn't remotely close to a New England style in appearance, nose or fruitiness. The beer on the left is 1318 and the right is 1968

Julius clone-2nd version
10 gallons

22lbs Maris otter
4lb white wheat
5lb carafoam
1.5lb flaked oats

Mash water-9 gallons at 165 degrees for mash at 154. Rest for 60. Sparge water 9 gallons at 170. Collected 13 gallons

OG- 1.076

1oz mosaic-45
1oz Amarillo-45
2oz each citra, mosaic Amarillo- 15
2oz each citra, mosaic Amarillo - 10
1oz mosaic, Amarillo and 2oz citra- 5
2oz each mosaic, citra, Amarillo 30 min steep at 170 degrees

Wyeast 1318 and 1968 in different fermenters

On day 4 of fermentation, 1oz each into each fermenter
FG on 1318 was 1.016
Click to expand...

Interesting how yeast can change the beer's color so drastically. It's like due to a number of things (flocculation differences, malt/hop interaction). I recently brewed my house pale with 095 (burlington) instead of 1318 –
totally different beer.

On another note, can we try to have people post grist percentages instead of actual weight of different malts? I think it will allow us to hone in on the actual grist bill and make it easily applicable for the variation between everyone's systems.
 

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