Thrifty RIMS tube: elements reviews?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
T

Toadies

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Messages
87
Reaction score
12
Hello, I pre-ordered the Thrifty RIMS tube from Norcal and pretty excited on receiving the product.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=596116&page=2

However while waiting, i'm getting buyers remorse because there is very little on the heating element or PID controller.

Has anyone used either of these products in a RIMS tube setup?
Heating Element:
https://www.morebeer.com/products/2200-watt-stainless-steel-heating-element.html
is it true 1100/2200 watts heating element?
Is this safe in a rims tube (I read everywhere about low density watts)?

PID Controller:
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=471
Will reliability be an issue with it not being SSR? I'd imagine the element clicking a lot in a RIMS tube setup.
Is it plug-in play with 240V dryer plug?

Thanks for any input you guys can provide!
 
Well, whoever did the math on the element did it incorrectly. 2200W at 220V is not going to be 1100W at 110V. It will be 550W. Unless they did the math incorrectly backwards, in which case a 1100W at 110V element will be 4400W. Need to get that answered first. I think jaybird did a test so need to have him confirm how he powered it. My bet is at 110V it has a very low watt density. I would be more concerned about laminar flow in the tube. It might help to wrap a spiral of stainless wire around it, though that adds cleaning complexity.

The controller has a mechanical relay, so it will have limited longevity compared to a properly sized SSR/heatsink. I wouldn't worry about it - it should last a couple of years at least, as long as you are switching the 110V / 1100W load.
 
I'd be concerned about using that controller at the speeds necessary for RIMS tube control - the cycle time defaults to 20s, and the manual says to only set at that for use with the relay, while I think the cycle time needs to be closer to 1s for RIMS control. That's going to affect the relay life a lot. It looks fine for sous-vide or even HERMS HLT control, but a RIMS tube might need a faster response that it can be set up for, while maintaining a reasonable lifetime.

You can get a Mypin PID and SSR kit on eBay for much less than the Auber kit, probably cheap enough to let you build a complete (if simple) controller for similar costs. And this is probably where you don't want to skimp _too_ much, or you may end up ruining batches with scorching while saving less than the cost of ingredients for a batch.
 
Jaybird's test was 110v. I believe it achieve 60-160* in 2.5 hours?

I'm going to follow-up with him to see if he can do a test temp fluctuation if set to 150* for 1 hour.

I really want to kit to work, I feel the price is right at $250 and keeps my head from exploding trying to figure out if I got everything!
 
I posted the error in wattage in Jaybirds thread, he could determine the wattage by measuring the current draw. I emailed morebeer a couple days ago to clarification on wattage but have heard back from them.

Looking at the time it took to heat the water to strike temp seems like it might be 1100W at 110V. If that is true would the wattage density be too high to use at 220V without dialing back power somehow?

I am interested in getting a RIMS to do step mashes, can you use the time to heat water in a system to estimate it performance with grain? And what be would a desirable increase in temp vs time to determine acceptable performance?

@Brundoq, could you put a spiral inside the tube but not on the element to get the same effect? That might be easier to clean.
 
BrunDog said:
Ooh, didn't see 20s cycle time. Yes, that is far too long.
Click to expand...

It _can_ be set to 1s, but I'm not sure how well it will work there - the manual reads as though the I and D parameters can only set in whole seconds as well, if that makes a difference.

Of course, with a mechanical relay, 1s cycle time is not a good idea for longevity, particularly at very low or very high proportional outputs, where the relay will try to switch on and off in fraction of a second.
 
Mechanical relay not a great idea here, but if managed to, let's say a 5 second window, it might be OK. Won't last forever, but its only going to run for an hour or so every now and again.

I really doubt this element is going to burn anything, even if it were 4500W at 220VAC. But as will all RIMS you need to make sure good turbulent flow around the element pulls the heat out. I mashout in my RIMS at 5500W and ensure the flowrate is at least 2 GPM, and have had no issues (visible residue) on the element. My element is a foldback with "interwoven" stainless wire wrapped around it. Not great for catching junk and cleaning, but effective at creating a disturbance and heat transfer (pic here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7285005&postcount=88).
 
Toadies said:
Hello, I pre-ordered the Thrifty RIMS tube from Norcal and pretty excited on receiving the product.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=596116&page=2

However while waiting, i'm getting buyers remorse because there is very little on the heating element or PID controller.

Has anyone used either of these products in a RIMS tube setup?
Heating Element:
https://www.morebeer.com/products/2200-watt-stainless-steel-heating-element.html
is it true 1100/2200 watts heating element?
Is this safe in a rims tube (I read everywhere about low density watts)?

PID Controller:
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=471
Will reliability be an issue with it not being SSR? I'd imagine the element clicking a lot in a RIMS tube setup.
Is it plug-in play with 240V dryer plug?

Thanks for any input you guys can provide!
Click to expand...

the watt density on that will be very high...

something like this would be better.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Watlow-L18A...570468?hash=item5d64a62c64:g:0kIAAOSwRjNXNf0D


if you own a drill and are confident in drilling out a compression fitting the sky is the limit as far as length and watt density... I use a 36" long 2000w cartridge heater in this fashion in my rims.

something like this would be good.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ITW-Dynatec...323796?hash=item3f6f8b0e54:g:KYoAAOSw44BYLxK2

or http://www.ebay.com/itm/FAST-HEAT-C...302176?hash=item5b18839ba0:g:l-IAAOSwHmhV7gDz just search "cartridge heater 240v" on ebay.
 
augiedoggy said:
the watt density on that will be very high...
Click to expand...

Too high at 220V or 110V?

Just taking the outside area of the cartridge side I get about 40WPI if it was 1100W (11.5in length, .75 diameter). Did I do the math wrong.

I heard back from morebeer, turns out this element is 2200W at 220V so 550W at 110. That would make the WPI even lower.
 
ba-brewer said:
Too high at 220V or 110V?

Just taking the outside area of the cartridge side I get about 40WPI if it was 1100W (11.5in length, .75 diameter). Did I do the math wrong.

I heard back from morebeer, turns out this element is 2200W at 220V so 550W at 110. That would make the WPI even lower.
Click to expand...

well I assumed you would be using it at 240v with 2200w
 
ba-brewer said:
OK looks like the email response from morebeer does not match what jaybird measured with the actual part.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7821399&postcount=77

Makes me wonder about long term issues if you toast the element and need to find a replacement.
Click to expand...

so why not just get one of the many universal 120v more powerful lower watt density cartridge heaters? Why so dead set on this element even though it will be severely underpowered at 120v and not uldw at 240v? Theres nothing really ideal about it except it looks cool and has a clean mounting setup devised for it. . you can get a 1000w or 1500w 120v element for like 20-30 shipped that you can easily replace if something went wrong of you wanted to go bigger. even a standard 4500w lwd element at 120v would be better...
 
ba-brewer said:
I agree. I just wanted to comment on the contradiction of my email from morebeer and what was measured.
Click to expand...

No problem was just trying figure out you reasoning if you where still pursuing it for 120v.. I believe you can use other elements easily with the rims tube
 
I did some number crunching and the cost of the thrifty tube and element assembled comes in about $40 to $50 less than the brewhardware solution or norcal's triclover RIMS solution. Using the thrifty tube and a brewhardware pod and off the shelf element is about $15 more, but is a move universal solution. So at that point why not spend $25 more and get a 1.5" tube to improve heat transfer.
 
ba-brewer said:
I did some number crunching and the cost of the thrifty tube and element assembled comes in about $40 to $50 less than the brewhardware solution or norcal's triclover RIMS solution. Using the thrifty tube and a brewhardware pod and off the shelf element is about $15 more, but is a move universal solution. So at that point why not spend $25 more and get a 1.5" tube to improve heat transfer.
Click to expand...

I don't believe 1.5 or 2" will make a big difference. The main thing I wish the thrifty tube had was a one piece tube, but that would have cost more. I'm excited to be receiving this product.

I'll probably regret not upgrading the controller due to its constant clicking of the relay. My solution? "Alexa, louder" problem solved!
 
Toadies said:
I don't believe 1.5 or 2" will make a big difference. The main thing I wish the thrifty tube had was a one piece tube, but that would have cost more. I'm excited to be receiving this product.

I'll probably regret not upgrading the controller due to its constant clicking of the relay. My solution? "Alexa, louder" problem solved!
Click to expand...
hope you have a couple extra relays for the controller... switching mechanical relays like that causes the contacts to burn up and fail rather quickly and its one of the reasons Solid state relays exist...
 
Toadies said:
Only time will tell.
Click to expand...
Oh but it has... Hence the invention of the SSR and the fact that you will never find a commercially designed device using mechanical relays in a fast switching manner such as this. The failure rate would be VERY high.
:mug: depending on how much you use it you might get some decent beers out before it fails while your not looking and makes a mess out of one of your mashes.. Its your risk to take though.

You should be able to find out the coil voltage on the mechanical relay in your temp controller and swap it out with an ssr like the guys who use the stc1000= units do when they convert them to be used for this purpose.
 
Is it possible to make the elements cord longer? Would be nice to be able to locate the controller way a bit.
 

Similar threads

WesBrew
RIMS element for 240v controller
Replies
2
Views
175
Bobby_M
Bobby_M
P
Is this 240v GFCI working on my setup?
Replies
11
Views
1K
mac_1103
mac_1103
E
RIMS tube with electric
Replies
10
Views
2K
doug293cz
doug293cz
S
For Sale Reduced - TurnKey Electric HERMS System - 15g Homebrew Brewing
Replies
1
Views
874
SeMorganjr
S
J
Using external element - need advice
Replies
1
Views
492
Bobby_M
Bobby_M
InkBird 300

Latest posts

Back
Top