Thistle honey for first mead?

[tedzap]

I’ve been brewing beer for a few years now, and would like to try mead.

I usually go about things backwards, and without a real plan I have assembled the following items:

15# of Star thistle honey
2 packets of mangrove jack m05 mead yeast
Fermaid O
Go Ferm

any suggestions on a recipe? Should I go traditional? Melomel?

I can change the yeast, but would like to use some/all of this honey. What does thistle honey do best? Should I augment with a stronger honey like orange blossom?

I plan to make a 5 gallon batch.


A friend of a friend keeps bees and thistle is one that she had available. It is mild but a great flavor IMO.


Thanks in advance!

 

[Maylar]

I would suggest a traditional. 11% (1.085), no more. It's far easier to balance the end product at that level. Trust me on this.

Get these too:

One 15 gram pack of this (Opti White)
https://morewinemaking.com/products/optiwhite.html

one six gram pack of this (Booster Blanc)
https://morewinemaking.com/products/booster-blanc.html

Use them at full recommended dose. They help a lot, especially with mild honey.

one 2 oz bag of oak cubes for aging after fermentation -
https://morewinemaking.com/products/...rican-med.html

Add 1 tsp per gallon of this (dry) after fermentation starts: (Bentonite)
https://morewinemaking.com/products/bentonite.html

Ferment at the lower end of your yeast's range.

Where are you? I thought star thistle was a Michigan honey. I have a 12 lb jug destined for a traditional too.

 

[tedzap]

I would suggest a traditional. 11% (1.085), no more. It's far easier to balance the end product at that level. Trust me on this.

Thanks! I will try it as you suggest.

Questions:

about how many pounds of honey get me to the 1.085 range?

add opti white & booster blanc when I pitch the yeast?

add bentonite when I start getting bubbles in airlock?

add oak cubes when I go into secondary (glass carboy)? Leave them until I bottle? How long until, or under what conditions do I bottle?

they appear out of American medium oak cubes. Should I go American med+ or French medium?

I assume you mean the lower end of the yeast temp range?

Where are you? I thought star thistle was a Michigan honey. I have a 12 lb jug destined for a traditional too.

Southwest Virginia. She called it thistle, was lighter/milder than her clover. She also had wildflower and tulip poplar, which was similar to molasses.

 

[Maylar]

About 2.5 lbs honey per gallon.

Yes, the additives go in at pitch.

Yes on the bentonite. Be sure you have some head space in your bucket and add it slowly, the dry powder will make FOAM.


I assume you're familiar with the nutrient protocol? https://www.meadmaderight.com/tosna.html

3 oz of oak cubes for 5 gallons in secondary. medium plus American is OK. It takes 3 months for full extraction.

Yes - that yeast makes esters at the low end of its temp range.

I made a mesquite traditional with this process a year ago and broke some out for the holidays. It's also a mild honey and was a bit disappointing when bottled, but after 10 months it's awesome.

 

[tedzap]

Getting familiar with the nutrient protocol.

So three months with oak cubes. Do I prep/sanitize the oak before putting it in the secondary?

Seems that some people boil the must, and some don’t. Do you recommend a boil?

Thinking about using a corny keg as the secondary, seems this would minimize the chance of the airlock drying out over three months.

 

[Maylar]

No boiling, ever (for me). Oak cubes (or Xoaker spheres) only need a rinse in hot water to wash off any dust. Most of us start with a higher volume than needed and rack to smaller containers for aging. A corny that's purged of air should work fine, if you can spare one that long.

I keep a variety of carboy sizes handy to split batches for aging with minimal head space. This was a 5 gallon batch that ended up being 4 gallons after 2 rackings (and taste trials):

 

[bernardsmith]

Regarding oaking, tedzap, I would add oak to the secondary in a muslin bag and taste every week or two. Depending on the amount of oak and the volume of the mead you can very easily over-oak in as short a period as a month. You want to be able to easily either remove the oak from the mead or remove the mead from the oak when the alcohol has extracted all the oak flavors and tannins that you want.

If you add the oak to the secondary then the alcohol and acids in the carboy will act to kill off any volunteer microbes that might otherwise gain a toe hold in your mead. Others may disagree but sanitizing the oak before you add the cubes to the mead will remove some of the key flavor characteristics of the oak. What you might choose to do - if you are anxious about bacterial infection - is soak the cubes in vodka for a month or too and so add enough of this tincture rather than the cubes to provide the oak profile you want, but that will require bench testing because you could very easily add too much oak.

Boiling the must will almost certainly destroy most of the volatile flavor compounds of the honey. Sure people used to boil the must before they used modern methods of collecting and filtering the honey but today those who boil their must might as well use table sugar in place of honey. It's certainly far less expensive and will likely have no discernible difference in the flavor profile after boiling.

 

[Maylar]

Oak cubes - not chips or spirals - don't give up their flavors quickly. The manufacturers say it takes 3 months to fully extract what's inside. I've found that 0.5-0.6 oz per gallon will not over oak anything.

 

[bernardsmith]

Thanks Maylar. Always learning. This is good to know but I have used cubes and extracted an enormous amount of color and flavor after a month, though perhaps the ABV of the "wine" I was oaking was a little higher. It was a vodka I was flavoring with fruit.

 

[Maylar]

Yup, the color does change. There's also an interaction with proteins that's an interesting side effect in mead - if you stabilize and back sweeten a mead with honey, you get a haze from the honey. Oak will actually help that clear and drop out.

My experience is with cider and meads, so I can't say if it applies to spirits.

 

[tedzap]

Excellent input folks, thank you. I put in an order with my local homebrew supply store for the items.

If I go the cornelius keg route, would Argon be better than CO2 for displacing oxygen in the headspace? I think it has lower solubility than CO2, and I have bottles of it in my garage.

Maybe get a corny keg lid with a port with a diffusion stone? It would seem nitrogen or argon added through a diffusion stone would degas well.

 

[AzOr]

OP- keep us posted on flavor profile of your mead.
I have 3lbs of star thistle as well. Just waiting for a couple of brew projects to finish up.

 

[madscientist451]

any suggestions on a recipe? Should I go traditional? Melomel?

I can change the yeast, but would like to use some/all of this honey. What does thistle honey do best? Should I augment with a stronger honey like orange blossom?

I plan to make a 5 gallon batch.

Things that I recommend:
-Honey is somewhat expensive, when you are just starting out, make 1 gallon batches, experiment with different things and go with larger amounts after you figure out what works for you.
-Beer strength meads are a good way to get started and they are ready to consume faster.
-Use an online recipe calculator, there are several available
-Heating the water helps dissolve the honey, but boiling will drive off aromatics and change the flavor. Don't heat the honey above 100F, unless you are making a Bouchet, which uses carmelized honey.
-Look up staggered nutrient additions and degassing and follow the steps.
-Use 1 packet of yeast per gallon or if making larger batches start 1 gallon fermenting and then step up the volume as the yeast gets going.

 

[tedzap]

I have acquired opti white, booster blanc, bentonite and oak cubes. I also have a pound of orange blossom honey, should I consider adding this, or keep it all thistle?

 

[AzOr]

My vote is on all thistle honey. For the simple reason of being able to taste that variety.

 

[AzOr]

I still have 3lbs of thistle and coriander that I need to do something with.

 

[Maylar]

When you get through primary fermentation and rack for aging on the oak, have a taste. Likely you'll want a bit of sweetness, as some meads are tart (acidic) when totally dry. Stabilize it and add just enough honey to where you can detect the honey presence. You can add more before bottling if needed. Here you can decide if the orange blossom or thistle gives you the best flavor. A couple of 6 oz samples and a half teaspoon of honey in each will give you an idea of which direction to go.

Note that the yeast derivatives (opti white and booster blanc) will impact the body, mouthfeel, and perception of sweetness. A buddy of mine made a tupelo traditional using those adjuncts, and he said it tasted like 1.008 right out of the fermenter and needed no back sweetening.

 

[tedzap]

thanks. potassium sorbate for stabilizing?

 

[Seamonkey84]

That and sulfite