This Can't Be Good: Last Call At Another Notable Brewery

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I was just looking at BYO's Ten Fiddy clone for inspiration. It makes me wonder how much they lost with local competition and regional distribution. I see a lot of Goose Island, New Belgium, Bells, and other names in mass distribution now that they are owned by large companies.
 
Craft beer scene seems to be at an all time high. Customers are more picky then we used to be with so many good craft beer options and unfortunately, Oskar Blues is not producing great beer anymore.
 
wdavis2003 said:
Craft beer scene seems to be at an all time high. Customers are more picky then we used to be with so many good craft beer options and unfortunately, Oskar Blues is not producing great beer anymore.
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I think this is a lot of it. I am a craft beer nut. I treat my untappd and finding a new beer to try like it's a collection.

That said there is way to much meh beer in the world. As I'm getting older and getting into brewing myself I'm starting to retract how much I try things that might not be great.

It's also amazing to me how beers I used to be really excited about not that long ago when I try the again aren't nearly as exciting.
 
There are thousands of breweries now, and a lot of them make bad beer that is more about marketing than flavor. Kind of like Bud, except Bud doesn't pretend to be a reaction to bad American lager. I think some weeding out is a good thing, although I'm sure some good companies will disappear along with the bad.

A lot of millennials seem to think a clever name and a cute label are all there is to real beer.

I think the world will be better off when people stop trying to manufacture beer because it's cool.
 
You can't swing a dead cat here without hitting a craft brewery. Many are mediocre, some really awful, and a few make stellar beer. Like any commodity, the quality level of the various producers fits under a bell curve, and in the case of breweries, not a symmetrical one. More fall within the low end than the high. Too many times I've spent $8 for a pint I could re-create better at home, while eating a $15 sandwich from the sketchy food truck just outside.

It's unfortunate to see a brewery shuttered. A dream shot down, jobs lost, leases broken, hundreds of thousands in gear being auctioned off, etc. I don't know how some of these places stay in business. How does selling pints and growler fills pay all those wages, overhead and the note on all that shiny stainless steel in the back room? Even if you're canning and distributing, how does one make their product stand out on shelves filled with craft brew?

Before Covid my wife and I would try to visit a different brewery around town once a week. We remembered the places that took pride in making quality beer, and went back to those. We even revisited some places with so-so beer if they had good food on-premises and had a decent vibe. But if the staff acted indifferently or snobby...not coming back. We're not going to drop dough on some place that doesn't make us feel comfortable or welcome, and there's still too much of that hipster nonsense in the brewing world.

Then the pandemic killed off some, including some good ones. Now that things have been open again, we're being a lot more discriminating. We have some places we like within 10 miles or so and we pretty much stick with those. We still go out for beers, just that we concentrate on a few key breweries that we really enjoy. We might check out a new brewery from time to time, but we don't try to do that weekly.
 
I wonder if a lot of kids started breweries without understanding where the homebrewing and microbrew movement came from; that it was a reaction to grocery stores full of terrible beer made from corn and rice. I remember when it was pretty exciting to see both St. Pauli Girl AND Beck's in a store. If you haven't lived through the Budmilcoors years, maybe you might think the difference between bland factory beer and real beer is that people who brew real beer have gauge earrings and stupid tribal tattoos from cultures they know nothing about.

Forty years ago (wow) I handled all the beer buying at the student grocery at Columbia University. I was privileged to get all sorts of interesting stuff for myself and my buddies. Orval, Watney's, Altenmuenster...I can't remember it all. We had parties with kegs of things like Spaten, Whitbread, and Guinness when other students were puking Rheingold and Bud all over the library steps. It was a real joy to be able to get decent beer by the case and keg. I liked it because it was better, not because it was cool. I quit drinking cheap beer in high school because I liked going thirsty better.

The sad truth is that a lot of people got caught up in the idea of craft brew without learning to taste the difference. They wanted to be seen drinking it, but they couldn't tell it from Molson. Same kind of people who drank Killian's Red, which tasted like Coors, because...it was red.
 
This is all pretty predictable. The number one trait of a younger generation coming of age is contrariness. For better or worse they try to separate themselves from their elders by being "against" those things they see as status quo from the one that came before. In other words rebellion. Like it or not there is a very strong air of snotty elitism on the craft beer scene, just as there was in the wine scene before it. There are a lot of folks who live with their nose buried deep in a tulip glass, and who sneer at those who cannot name all twenty hops they smell at twenty paces from the freshly popped top on a can of the latest tootie-fruitie cosmically hazy experience beer. Newcomers don't know all the subtleties of craft beer at the beginning and they don't like feeling left out or belittled by "experts" flouting their prowess! Thus they find other avenues - avenues they can see as their own. Couple that with a mind-boggling array of exotic combinations and a dwindling selection of "gate-way" beers at many outlets and it was predictable that the new generation of drinkers we would want on board would migrate to other items. My kids, my brother and sisters kids their friends, have migrated to bourbon and whiskies. We have had distilleries and tasting pubs for whisky cropping up all over of late. Like craft beer this is now seeing a diversification in options - new flavor additions, table blendings, water additions chilling techniques etc, etc, etc. same as we grew the craft beer drinking scene. It will all come around again - life always does. Kids will discover that not all craft beer is what my nephew calls "a g;ass of murky , bitter perfume and flower water" . I think there will be a move "back" toward flavorful but traditional beers (Think Dortmunder, Guiness, Munich Dunkel, Bitter, etc) Just before Covid a young couple opened a brewery near me that serves very traditional beers, English, and german, and Czech classics, most under 6% - in fact most unde 5%. A single American IPA or PA at a time at most. None of the "trendy" that so dominates. I expected them o buckle when Covid came, but instead they have boomed. And the crowed when you can find a table is surprisingly young most nights. The seating is at long tables, very communal in nature. When your there you here talk about football, politics, community, kids, marriages, cars , hunting, cooking, but not so much about floral aromas, hybrid hop blends, and subtle flavors of blah blah blah. Things change with time. They always will. Exploring english and German classics, gave way to the race for epic IBU's, gave way to "juicy
hazy, murky, gave way to session, summer lagers, lite pilsners, can't wait to see what is next.
 
gunhaus said:
This is all pretty predictable. The number one trait of a younger generation coming of age is contrariness. For better or worse they try to separate themselves from their elders by being "against" those things they see as status quo from the one that came before. In other words rebellion. Like it or not there is a very strong air of snotty elitism on the craft beer scene, just as there was in the wine scene before it. There are a lot of folks who live with their nose buried deep in a tulip glass, and who sneer at those who cannot name all twenty hops they smell at twenty paces from the freshly popped top on a can of the latest tootie-fruitie cosmically hazy experience beer. Newcomers don't know all the subtleties of craft beer at the beginning and they don't like feeling left out or belittled by "experts" flouting their prowess! Thus they find other avenues - avenues they can see as their own. Couple that with a mind-boggling array of exotic combinations and a dwindling selection of "gate-way" beers at many outlets and it was predictable that the new generation of drinkers we would want on board would migrate to other items. My kids, my brother and sisters kids their friends, have migrated to bourbon and whiskies. We have had distilleries and tasting pubs for whisky cropping up all over of late. Like craft beer this is now seeing a diversification in options - new flavor additions, table blendings, water additions chilling techniques etc, etc, etc. same as we grew the craft beer drinking scene. It will all come around again - life always does. Kids will discover that not all craft beer is what my nephew calls "a g;ass of murky , bitter perfume and flower water" . I think there will be a move "back" toward flavorful but traditional beers (Think Dortmunder, Guiness, Munich Dunkel, Bitter, etc) Just before Covid a young couple opened a brewery near me that serves very traditional beers, English, and german, and Czech classics, most under 6% - in fact most unde 5%. A single American IPA or PA at a time at most. None of the "trendy" that so dominates. I expected them o buckle when Covid came, but instead they have boomed. And the crowed when you can find a table is surprisingly young most nights. The seating is at long tables, very communal in nature. When your there you here talk about football, politics, community, kids, marriages, cars , hunting, cooking, but not so much about floral aromas, hybrid hop blends, and subtle flavors of blah blah blah. Things change with time. They always will. Exploring english and German classics, gave way to the race for epic IBU's, gave way to "juicy
hazy, murky, gave way to session, summer lagers, lite pilsners, can't wait to see what is next.
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I’m an og Millennial and never really liked beer except for Guinness until I started trying out English ales like what yards brews, and Belgian beers, then started brewing. Most of mine are around 5% and never really hoppy or really bitter. I avoid IPAs but love to go out for multiple flights at local places. I also hate 8% stouts with 35 flavors in a glass.
 
balrog said:
Their website shows two taprooms still open, Longmont, CO and Brevard, NC.
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I went to the one in Colorado Springs last year. They must have closed their doors as well. Beer wasn't very good and the place was dead. I went because of name recognition. I used to love Dale's Pale. Haven't had the courage to buy it over the last couple of years because I'm afraid I'd waste my money.
 
Had Dale's Pale a decade ago when visiting Denver. Thought it was decent not spectacular but a good beer. I assume as the beer was hyped and production accelerated the quality control went down, and so did the customer.

Also remember the original Sam Adams Boston Lager, as great and one of a kind it was. recipe is different now and terrible.

But as gunhaus stated and i believe is true. traditional beers will make it's way back and i can't wait. the only traditional beer on the shelves are from the big brewers everything else is flavored stout, fruit this, super hopped no barley beer, the list goes on. Yep there are not many great beers on the shelves.

really need to find me a Lion Stout for my own nostalgia.
 
MaxStout said:
You can't swing a dead cat here without hitting a craft brewery. Many are mediocre, some really awful, and a few make stellar beer. Like any commodity, the quality level of the various producers fits under a bell curve, and in the case of breweries, not a symmetrical one. More fall within the low end than the high. Too many times I've spent $8 for a pint I could re-create better at home, while eating a $15 sandwich from the sketchy food truck just outside.
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Your first paragraph mirrors our experience so perfectly that I called my wife over and she totally agreed. If a brewery can't at least equal what's on tap at home we seldom return.
 
MaxStout said:
You can't swing a dead cat here without hitting a craft brewery. Many are mediocre, some really awful, and a few make stellar beer. Like any commodity, the quality level of the various producers fits under a bell curve, and in the case of breweries, not a symmetrical one. More fall within the low end than the high. Too many times I've spent $8 for a pint I could re-create better at home, while eating a $15 sandwich from the sketchy food truck just outside.

It's unfortunate to see a brewery shuttered. A dream shot down, jobs lost, leases broken, hundreds of thousands in gear being auctioned off, etc. I don't know how some of these places stay in business. How does selling pints and growler fills pay all those wages, overhead and the note on all that shiny stainless steel in the back room? Even if you're canning and distributing, how does one make their product stand out on shelves filled with craft brew?

Before Covid my wife and I would try to visit a different brewery around town once a week. We remembered the places that took pride in making quality beer, and went back to those. We even revisited some places with so-so beer if they had good food on-premises and had a decent vibe. But if the staff acted indifferently or snobby...not coming back. We're not going to drop dough on some place that doesn't make us feel comfortable or welcome, and there's still too much of that hipster nonsense in the brewing world.

Then the pandemic killed off some, including some good ones. Now that things have been open again, we're being a lot more discriminating. We have some places we like within 10 miles or so and we pretty much stick with those. We still go out for beers, just that we concentrate on a few key breweries that we really enjoy. We might check out a new brewery from time to time, but we don't try to do that weekly.
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I've pretty much revoked my "craft beer lover's" card. There's way too much of it out there and way too much of it SUCKS. I seriously don't understand these breweries thinking it's a good idea to EXPAND, EXPAND, EXPAND. Take a look at New Glarus. There's a business model that works.
Big Grove here in the Iowa City area is expanding like mad. They have 5 locations now, 2 of which are currently being built. I do not understand it. Their beer is mediocre AT BEST. Just like all the other local breweries that people blow their wads over. I'm done with it.
 
I can’t wrap my head around all of it. Now that many have sold, the macro market is stuck. Over produce product that is just ok. I’ve quit going to local breweries. Most are producing beers that just aren’t good. $8-$10 pints of poorly brewed swill. My last visit was at a brewery that every beer had almost no carbonation. Who serves flat saison? Place was packed and people were commenting on how good it was. Only a few are doing it right across the board. Quite frustrating, just make well made beer. Is it that hard to do?
 
If a brewery can get away with serving crappy, $8-10 beer and still pack the place, they have no need to improve. They can rest on their laurels.

I scratch my head at this, too. Maybe some customers have bad taste, maybe they like the atmosphere, or it's just close by. Or it's the latest hip place to be.

Resting on one's laurels can come around and bite them in the ass. People are fickle, and all it takes is for something new to draw them away.

But like we discussed in a thread about the slowdown of home brewing, perhaps the craft beer scene is doing the same. A little Darwinian thinning of the herd and it will settle into a core market.
 
MaxStout said:
If a brewery can get away with serving crappy, $8-10 beer and still pack the place, they have no need to improve. They can rest on their laurels.

I scratch my head at this, too. Maybe some customers have bad taste, maybe they like the atmosphere, or it's just close by. Or it's the latest hip place to be.

Resting on one's laurels can come around and bite them in the ass. People are fickle, and all it takes is for something new to draw them away.

But like we discussed in a thread about the slowdown of home brewing, perhaps the craft beer scene is doing the same. A little Darwinian thinning of the herd and it will settle into a core market.
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Man, do I hope you're right. Every Joe Schmo with a checkbook and a dream have opened a brewery these last 10-20 years, particularly in the last 5 or so years. Many of which really just have not prioritized quality over quantity. Also, the atmosphere in these breweries is downright BAD. High ceilings, cold cement floors, echoey spaces. It's dire. I really don't want to wish ill on others living out their dreams. I just choose not to go to these places anymore. Most of the beer I drink is not considered craft beer. Pretty much homebrew and mass produced, but quality beers.

I still maintain that it's never been a better time to brew your own beer!
 
Just please make one IPA that is worth 1 turd. All I ask, please do it well. First thing I always order is their IPA. If you miss on that, all other beers are even worse. Tells me you might understand financial sheets, not how to brew. How many versions of IPA can be made? No matter what coast you make, they really are similar. Just do it well! They can’t because…. can’t figure it out. Maybe they don’t know? They are in the business every single day. I realize it has taken me many years to produce quality beer. I do it now and then. Wtf, it exhausts me.
 
hottpeper13 said:
Yo dog, I order the Pilsner now (2 years ago no craft brewer made one) and look at it like a Pizza Margarite.
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When I try a new brewery, if they have a pilsner, I start with that. Those are generally harder to do well, and no covering up mistakes. If they can pull off a decent pilsner, I figure they won't likely fark up the other styles.
 
MaxStout said:
When I try a new brewery, if they have a pilsner, I start with that. Those are generally harder to do well, and no covering up mistakes. If they can pull off a decent pilsner, I figure they won't likely fark up the other styles.
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I tend to agree with this too. I don’t visit craft breweries very often because I don’t travel much and I live in BFE and there really aren’t any close to me. I ordered a Pilsner at a “happening” place in Longmont, CO. one time. They could just have well served me the leftover water after boiling a batch of sweet corn and I don’t think I would have been able to taste the difference. If my brother in law hadn’t bought it for me, I wouldn’t have finished it… I was being polite to him. They had a neat atmosphere and cool decorations, but their beer absolutely sucked.
That brings me to my second complaint… if a beer is supposed to be crystal clear, serve me a clear beer instead of a logo glass full of murky pond water. There’s something to be said about beer that is supposed to be clear. That really grinds my gears… let it mature as intended instead of rushing crap beer.
 
camonick said:
I tend to agree with this too. I don’t visit craft breweries very often because I don’t travel much and I live in BFE and there really aren’t any close to me. I ordered a Pilsner at a “happening” place in Longmont, CO. one time. They could just have well served me the leftover water after boiling a batch of sweet corn and I don’t think I would have been able to taste the difference. If my brother in law hadn’t bought it for me, I wouldn’t have finished it… I was being polite to him. They had a neat atmosphere and cool decorations, but their beer absolutely sucked.
That brings me to my second complaint… if a beer is supposed to be crystal clear, serve me a clear beer instead of a logo glass full of murky pond water. There’s something to be said about beer that is supposed to be clear. That really grinds my gears… let it mature as intended instead of rushing crap beer.
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100% agree with you there. Also, my problem with most of the pilsners (the reason I say "most" is that there are very few exceptions, number one being Edel Pils by New Glarus) brewed by US breweries is that they're over-hopped and under-malted resulting in bitter, overly hopped beer with no balance. These aren't west coast IPAs people.
 
I make pizza, and when I try a new recipe change or a new pizzeria, I always order cheese pizza. A monkey can make an acceptable pizza with everything. Only a skilled cook can make a good cheese pizza. In comparison, it is extremely rare. It makes sense that the same principle applies to beer.
 
I'm thankful to have two great breweries within 2 miles of my house and they do great 'clear beer' as I like to call it. They also do great IPA's. Actually, they are much more known for their IPA's but they do great lagers/pils too. But I also have 2 more that are will not get any more of my business. Sometimes, on a rare occasion they do a good beer but I ain't wasting anymore money there. I'll just have to miss out on that occasional good beer they produce.
 
I can't speak for everyone, but I think one reason I like ales so much is that when I was a kid, there were nearly no ales available. We had bottled Guinness, which was gross, and Molson Golden, which was horrible. For the most part, it was lager, lager, lager.

Maybe this is one reason IPA is so big.
 
Clint Yeastwood said:
I can't speak for everyone, but I think one reason I like ales so much is that when I was a kid, there were nearly no ales available. We had bottled Guinness, which was gross, and Molson Golden, which was horrible. For the most part, it was lager, lager, lager.

Maybe this is one reason IPA is so big.
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IPA is big because it is more alcoholic
 
Dog House Brew said:
I can’t wrap my head around all of it. Now that many have sold, the macro market is stuck. Over produce product that is just ok. I’ve quit going to local breweries. Most are producing beers that just aren’t good. $8-$10 pints of poorly brewed swill. My last visit was at a brewery that every beer had almost no carbonation. Who serves flat saison? Place was packed and people were commenting on how good it was. Only a few are doing it right across the board. Quite frustrating, just make well made beer. Is it that hard to do?
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I've been surprised too at the increase in cost of a pint over only a few years. One of my favorite local breweries opened in 2018 with $5 pints. Between 2020 and 2023 the price went up to $8. A tip is expected on top of that. To me, that is just not a good value when I can get the same beer in a liquor store for $12 for a 4-pack of 16-ounce cans. I still go out for beers, but less frequently and I usually only have one. Still, the place is busy and many people apparently aren't bothered by the high prices.
 
MikeCo said:
I've been surprised too at the increase in cost of a pint over only a few years. One of my favorite local breweries opened in 2018 with $5 pints. Between 2020 and 2023 the price went up to $8. A tip is expected on top of that. To me, that is just not a good value when I can get the same beer in a liquor store for $12 for a 4-pack of 16-ounce cans. I still go out for beers, but less frequently and I usually only have one. Still, the place is busy and many people apparently aren't bothered by the high prices.
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There's a lot of post-pandemic inflation (read: gouging) going on. Sure, costs have gone up, but the increases often outpace that. Businesses simply making up for profits lost during covid.

It's not that I can't afford it, it's that I refuse to pay $9 for a 12 oz. "pint" of shiatty beer. I am shifting more towards drinking my home brew, and buying packaged beer for the styles I don't brew. And I don't need to find a DD when I'm enjoying beers at home. ;)

At the risk of derailing things here, I'll say the tipping thing is getting out of hand. You pour me a beer, I'll give you a buck. But I'm seeing places tacking on a compulsory "service charge," usually 20%. What used to be a gratuity is now a baked-in fee to help the business offset some of its payroll expenses.

At least the "service charge" goes entirely to the front end staff, and not owners/mgrs. (I ask).

Pay people what they're worth, instead.
 
balrog said:
What @MaxStout said about post pandemic inflation
$12 for a 4-pack pints of local craft is on the very low, hardly seen, end of things.
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It is on the low side and it's messed up that we should be giddy to only pay $12 for a 4-pack.

I dunno I love beer in all its forms and I want to love commercial craft beer but somewhere along the way I started to dislike it in general. The vibe, the more-often-than-not mediocre beer, the high prices.

I like my homebrew. When I visited Germany I liked the way people drinked beer there. Jury is still out on everything else
 

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