Thinking of Trying No Sparge

[BrewKaiser]

Background:

3 vessel plus HEX eHerms. Vessels are Keggles. MLT is max 13 gal volume
Want to streamline processes and time of brewing
Willing to sacrifice a little extra grain if it means faster brewday

I'm interested in trying no sparge brewing on my next beer and only boiling (light gentle boil) for 30-45 minutes. No sparge mashing intrigues me as I can save 30-40 minutes of brewing time and the hassle balancing my MLT output and input.

My next beer will be an Imperial Stout with almost 18 lbs in grain weight.
7 lbs EA Marris Otter and Pale 2-row
1 lbs Flaked Oats
8 oz Black Patent
12 oz Crystal 60L
1 lbs Chocolate Malt (450 SRM)

My basic understanding of how this will work is strike with 9 Gal (Beersmith estimated mash and sparge volumes combined) and recirculate a very thin mash for 45-60 min (considering shortening mash time, too). At end of mash, heat to 168 and then transfer all liquid to BK. No additional sparge.

My questions are:
1) I can't find a no sparge mash profile in Beersmith
2) What loss in efficiency should I expect compared to sparging. My brewhouse mash efficiency is close to 80% with Brewhouse efficiency around 72%
3) Is this the wrong grain bill to try such a thin mash. Concerned about extracting too much tannin from the dark malts
4) For water profile do I only focus on the mash water and disregard sparge (using Bru'n Water)

Very interested in the the experience of others who have tried this. If I can shave 1 hour off my normal brew day I'ld be happy. Yes, for those that BIAB, I understand this is essentially what you do, but I have a nifty rig that I spent too much time and money on to go back now...

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

Gordon Strong recommends adding the dark malts during vorlauf in his "Modern Homebrew Recipes" book to help reduce any tannins from the dark malts.

 

[BrewKaiser]

Gordon Strong recommends adding the dark malts during vorlauf in his "Modern Homebrew Recipes" book to help reduce any tannins from the dark malts.

I read that as well, but with no sparge I don't think the dark malts will have much liquid for any measurable amount of time. I was contemplating throwing them in the last 15-20 minutes.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

An imperial stout is not the best beer to try no sparge/short boil.
I was using a HERM system, which I then modified to no sparge HERMS. I was getting mid 80's BH efficiency for a typical 1.050 to 1.060 beer, which dropped to 65% efficiency no sparge. If you're at 72% now, expect a drop to 60% no sparge. Factor in the bigger beer and you might drop to 50% efficiency (it will depend on the grist:water ratio). A short boil and you'll drop again....maybe 45% efficiency.

In Beersmith, set the water to 0, then see how much it tells you to sparge with. Change your strike water to include that entire volume.

4) Yes.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I think BIAB is better for no-sparge - you can fully drain and (if you choose to) squeeze the bag to improve efficiency.

I don't find no-sparge to be faster than batch sparging though, as I can be bringing my first runnings to a boil while I recirculate the sparge. I often do shorter boils though.

 

[BrewKaiser]

An imperial stout is not the best beer to try no sparge/short boil.
I was using a HERM system, which I then modified to no sparge HERMS. I was getting mid 80's BH efficiency for a typical 1.050 to 1.060 beer, which dropped to 65% efficiency no sparge. If you're at 72% now, expect a drop to 60% no sparge. Factor in the bigger beer and you might drop to 50% efficiency (it will depend on the grist:water ratio). A short boil and you'll drop again....maybe 45% efficiency.

In Beersmith, set the water to 0, then see how much it tells you to sparge with. Change your strike water to include that entire volume.

4) Yes.

Good to know. I was expecting efficiency to drop but not by that much. To reach 1.085 SG I don't think I'll have enough room in the MLT to compensate for additional grain required.

On a whole for your 1.050-1.060 beers how much time do you really save with no sparge? Or did you convert for other reasons?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

On a whole for your 1.050-1.060 beers how much time do you really save with no sparge? Or did you convert for other reasons?

I changed to try LoDo (low dissolved oxygen) brewing. It didn't save any time as I mentioned in my second post. I now batch sparge on a RIM system.

 

[doug293cz]

1) Sparge type doesn't affect mash profile, but does affect your equipment profile.
2) For 17.75 lb of grain and 0.12 gal/lb grain absorption, your lauter efficiency would be 68.5% for no sparge, and with a single, equal run-off volume, batch sparge the lauter efficiency would be 77%. At 100% conversion efficiency the mash efficiency would equal lauter efficiency, and the no-sparge pre-boil SG would be about 1.063, and the sparged pre-boil SG would be about 1.070 - 1.071. Pre-boil volume in either case would be about 6.85 - 6.9 gal. OG would be dependent on actual boil-off.
3) Use a water chemistry calculator to make sure your mash pH will be lower than 5.8, 5.4 - 5.5 would be ideal. Tannin extraction requires pH above about 6, so with good mash pH you should have nothing to worry about.
4) Yes. Set the sparge volume to 0, so that all your brewing water volume is used for strike.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

Gordon Strong recommends adding the dark malts during vorlauf in his "Modern Homebrew Recipes" book to help reduce any tannins from the dark malts.

I thought that was to reduce bitterness, which is different than the astringency caused by tannins.

Brew on

 

[RM-MN]

Background:

3 vessel plus HEX eHerms. Vessels are Keggles. MLT is max 13 gal volume
Want to streamline processes and time of brewing
Willing to sacrifice a little extra grain if it means faster brewday

I'm interested in trying no sparge brewing on my next beer and only boiling (light gentle boil) for 30-45 minutes. No sparge mashing intrigues me as I can save 30-40 minutes of brewing time and the hassle balancing my MLT output and input.

My next beer will be an Imperial Stout with almost 18 lbs in grain weight.
7 lbs EA Marris Otter and Pale 2-row
1 lbs Flaked Oats
8 oz Black Patent
12 oz Crystal 60L
1 lbs Chocolate Malt (450 SRM)

My basic understanding of how this will work is strike with 9 Gal (Beersmith estimated mash and sparge volumes combined) and recirculate a very thin mash for 45-60 min (considering shortening mash time, too). At end of mash, heat to 168 and then transfer all liquid to BK. No additional sparge.

My questions are:
1) I can't find a no sparge mash profile in Beersmith
2) What loss in efficiency should I expect compared to sparging. My brewhouse mash efficiency is close to 80% with Brewhouse efficiency around 72%
3) Is this the wrong grain bill to try such a thin mash. Concerned about extracting too much tannin from the dark malts
4) For water profile do I only focus on the mash water and disregard sparge (using Bru'n Water)

Very interested in the the experience of others who have tried this. If I can shave 1 hour off my normal brew day I'ld be happy. Yes, for those that BIAB, I understand this is essentially what you do, but I have a nifty rig that I spent too much time and money on to go back now...

RED: Efficiency is directly related to the crush of the grain. Mill your grain finer so you can use a smaller grain bill. More about this later in the green section.

ORANGE: With full volume mashing the pH of the mash is always of concern. None of us can give you a definitive answer since we don't know the water you will be using but it isn't difficult to acidify the water prior to adding the grains to keep the pH where it needs to be. The major concern is with the mash, not the sparge unless you sparge with hot water (above 170F.) which can extract tannins if the pH is too high. Not a concern at all with no-sparge.

GREEN: You don't have to ditch your nifty equipment to go to BIAB and you don't have to go BIAB at all but for this batch, mill your grains to near flour, then line your mash tun with a fine mesh cloth (Swiss Voille curtain material works and is pretty cheap) to aid in lautering so you don't have to worry about a stuck mash. The fine milling of the grain improves your mash conversion efficiency, perhaps enough to offset the loss of efficiency of no-sparge and the ability to lift the bag to expose more filter area eliminates the chance of the stuck mash.

 

[BrewKaiser]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I didn't have time to buy the additional grain needed or to work out all the changes to my program, water profile, etc. So I just stayed the course with the traditional mash, sparge, and boil. This likely was a good thing since I had a few surprises during my brew day yesterday and was able to use the added time to help my son with a school project.

My next brew will be a hazy IPA with a smaller and more simplified grain bill. I'll give it a go then.

 

[btcost]

This ties into your other thread on mash pH.

To pull off a great no sparge brew, your mash pH needs to be on point.

You will need much more acid/salts with the higher water to grain ratio.

Not impossible. Just needs attention.