Thin, watery Saison

[BrettV]

A little over a week ago I brewed a low gravity, all-grain saison. It was my first all-grain batch, and I specifically chose it since I was getting ambient temps in my apartment in the 80s, which I thought would be great saison "weather." Over the last few days airlock activity slowed down significantly, so I thought it was a good time for a gravity check.

Unfortunately, I recently discovered a hydrometer I had been using was actually off by .005, leading me to believe I was getting much better efficiency than I actually was, so I bought ingredients for this brew assuming an efficiency that was higher than I'm actually getting, so this ended up being REALLY low gravity. The OG was supposed to come in at 1039, but due to hydrometer inaccuracy, I actually ended up more around 1033/34. I amended my efficiency in the software to reflect this hydrometer error, and my new estimated FG was around 1008, but when I took the gravity reading tonight (with a new, accurate hydrometer,) it was hovering just over 1000 which leads me to believe my OG might have actually been even lower.

Anyway, so the smell of the beer: spot on. Blindfolded you would have picked that out as a saison. Extremely pleasant spicy, estery banana aroma. However, I took a sip and...nothing. It's like saison scented water. I was shocked at the difference of the potency of the smell and the taste. There are no noticeable flaws or off-flavors; the nose is textbook saison, but the palette is just bland, thin, and dry. Now, I understand that a good part of this is likely due to just undershooting my gravity, so I'm not really looking to find out what I did wrong; the question is if there anything I can do to save it. Crowdsourcing. Will time save it, or if it's watery now will it be forever more? Should I add something to the mix (extract, sugar, or fruit, etc?) Brew something else and blend? What say you homebrew community?

 

[JayDubWill]

I'm fermenting my first saison myself. From my reading a number of saisons have Belgium candi suger added post primary fermentation. I don't know how much it will help with the mouthfeel but it might be better than nothing.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I'd add some sugar and let it ferment out. What yeast did you use? What temp did you mash at? What was your grain bill?

You can boil some water to sterilize and then add your choice of sugar. Let it cool and add to the fermenter. Might need to rouse the yeast when you add the sugar.

 

[MindenMan]

How about making a crystal tea? Crystal 80, or 100, or 120? It will add body while slightly raising ABV, as opposed to adding sugar, which will usually thin the beer out. Or, you could mash a couple of pounds of grain at a high temperature (158-160F) and get some mouth feel along with a small increase in ABV. JM .02

 

[mb82]

I have had a few low gravity Saisons that started out watery. After about a month in the bottle they got better. The longer they were in the bottle the better they got.

 

[Smellyglove]

You say you brewed it a week ago. So I assume you don't have any bubbles in it yet. Let it sit for another week and then high carbonate it and it will get a lot better. Both my 565 1.065 saisons have been watery a week in.

 

[Yooper]

Saison IS a light crisp beer, but usually higher alcohol. That's fine- a lower ABV means it's perfect for summer.

Once it's carbed up, it won't be thin and watery- it'll be light and spritzy. It sounds quite good, actually!

 

[porterpounder]

Sounds like fermentation went perfectly. Brew a second batch with a bit higher gravity and a higher mash temp and blend the two.

 

[Schemy]

Saison IS a light crisp beer, but usually higher alcohol. That's fine- a lower ABV means it's perfect for summer.

Once it's carbed up, it won't be thin and watery- it'll be light and spritzy. It sounds quite good, actually!

I agree with Yooper, but also would like to see your recipe and mash schedule to see if I could lend some insight to help with body.

I don't think you've done anything wrong. I brew table saisons all the time, rarely with OG over 1.040. When I do brew a lower gravity saison, I generally have some wheat or flaked grain in my grist. I don't mash above 150 on a saison, and will pitch a larger starter to maximize attenuation. My favorite saison yeasts are Wyeast 3711 French Saison and ECY08 Saison Braissarie. I usually get down to around 1.003 to 1.000, and then I carb high.

 

[BrettV]

Thanks for all the input. I was purposely going for a low ABV saison, to be a little more like a historical Belgian farmhouse ale, which were not in the 6-7% range like modern saisons, but more in the 3-4% range. Here are all the pertinents:

4# Belgian Pilsner
1# Vienna
0.5# Belgian biscuit
0.5# White wheat
0.25# Flaked wheat
0.25# Carapils (dextrine)

0.5 oz. Magnum AA 13.5 boil 60 min
0.25 oz. Crystal AA 4.1 flameout

Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison

Mashed for 1 hour in 2 gallons of water at 152 on stovetop (BIAB.) Sparged (teabag method) in a second pot with 1.5 gallons of water, and let it sit for another 30 mins. Boiled for 90 minutes, added bittering hops at 60 and aroma at flameout. Chilled to about 80, transferred to fermenter, added ~2 gallons of top-up water, aerated and pitched the yeast.

I did research on this beer before starting, and 2 common themes I was finding were to mash higher (152) and not make a starter in order to get the yeast to struggle. My wort was so low gravity that I doubt the yeast struggled much, anyway, even without the starter, but I didn't make one all the same.

 

[Schemy]

Thanks for all the input. I was purposely going for a low ABV saison, to be a little more like a historical Belgian farmhouse ale, which were not in the 6-7% range like modern saisons, but more in the 3-4% range. Here are all the pertinents:

4# Belgian Pilsner
1# Vienna
0.5# Belgian biscuit
0.5# White wheat
0.25# Flaked wheat
0.25# Carapils (dextrine)

0.5 oz. Magnum AA 13.5 boil 60 min
0.25 oz. Crystal AA 4.1 flameout

Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison

Mashed for 1 hour in 2 gallons of water at 152 on stovetop (BIAB.) Sparged (teabag method) in a second pot with 1.5 gallons of water, and let it sit for another 30 mins. Boiled for 90 minutes, added bittering hops at 60 and aroma at flameout. Chilled to about 80, transferred to fermenter, added ~2 gallons of top-up water, aerated and pitched the yeast.

I did research on this beer before starting, and 2 common themes I was finding were to mash higher (152) and not make a starter in order to get the yeast to struggle. My wort was so low gravity that I doubt the yeast struggled much, anyway, even without the starter, but I didn't make one all the same.

I'm assuming 5 gallon recipe. When I run the numbers in my BeerSmith phone app (don't completely trust) I get an OG of 1.054 for a 5 gal BIAB. I'm going to point to the adding 2 gallons to primary to top off as the culprit for your body issue, but then again a table saison shouldn't be heavy. I would also make sure your thermometer you used to measure your mash temp is accurate. If you got down to 1.000, then I would think you didn't mash as 152, especially using 3724.

I don't know, I say carb it up and see how it goes. It'll be a refreshing beer to quaff on a hot afternoon.

Cheers.

 

[Schemy]

Double Post

 

[BrettV]

I'm assuming 5 gallon recipe. When I run the numbers in my BeerSmith phone app (don't completely trust) I get an OG of 1.054 for a 5 gal BIAB. I'm going to point to the adding 2 gallons to primary to top off as the culprit for your body issue, but then again a table saison shouldn't be heavy. I would also make sure your thermometer you used to measure your mash temp is accurate. If you got down to 1.000, then I would think you didn't mash as 152, especially using 3724.

I don't know, I say carb it up and see how it goes. It'll be a refreshing beer to quaff on a hot afternoon.

Cheers.

I don't know how you're arriving at 1054 based on that grain bill. According to Brewtoad, to get that OG with just 6.5 pounds of grain in a 5 gallon batch would be 118% efficiency, which is obviously impossible. Brewtoad is a free program, but I can't imagine it's off by THAT much.

Top-up water is inevitable for me, unfortunately. Right now I brew in a 5-gallon pot, which means I can only bring about 4.5 gallons to a boil. This was a long boil due to the high percentage of pilsner malt, so I lost about a gallon and a half. Usually with 60 minute boils I lose less than a gallon, especially if I leave the top on (which I also didn't do here, to avoid DMS.)

Thermometer is accurate, as far as I can tell. It's brand new, and it read 32 in a glass of ice water. I think at this point I may just bottle as is, or maybe add a little of the "grain tea" idea someone else suggested. Seeing as this is pretty low ABV, and I can't imagine the gravity getting any lower, would it still be prudent to give this another week or 2 in the carboy, or would it be cool to just check again in a few days and make sure the gravity is stable and then bottle?

 

[Schemy]

I'd make sure its stable and bottle, no sense in letting it sit and age.

Yeah I'm not sure on the OG thing, I just plugged it in my BeerSmith mobile app.

What was your gravity prior to topping off with water?

 

[BrettV]

What was your gravity prior to topping off with water?

Unfortunately don't know. It's not something I normally do, but I might start. I probably would have never added a full 2 gallons had I seen what the gravity was prior to topping off.

 

[Schemy]

Do you know what efficiency you are calculating on your BIAB batches with BrewToad?

 

[BrettV]

Default efficiency is set to 75% on Brewtoad. I started bumping it up to about 84% when I noticed I was overshooting my OG, but I eventually discovered it was the hydrometer that was off by .005 and I was not getting crazy efficiency. Based on the OG I got from this grain bill, my efficiency was probably in the low-mid 70s.

 

[BrettV]

Here's a thought: could I potentially take the idea of a "grain tea" and use it in place of priming sugar? Steep some crystal malt, cool it, and then use that to carb up the bottles?

 

[JayDubWill]

Here's a thought: could I potentially take the idea of a "grain tea" and use it in place of priming sugar? Steep some crystal malt, cool it, and then use that to carb up the bottles?

I've never heard or read about anything like a grain tee, but it sounds like what your describing is called Kräusening. It's used as a natural way to carbonate beer; primarily in Germany as a result of the Reinheitsgebot (Purity Law). You can read more about it here:

 

[BrettV]

Krausening is a bit different than what I'm talking about. Someone else had mentioned steeping some crystal malt and adding that to the beer for more body. My thought was to use it in place of priming sugar when I bottle. I'm sure it's possible, I'm just wondering if such a small amount of wort would have any real effect on the taste.