The switch from 5 to 10 gal BIAB

[dmbshen41]

My brother and I have recently started brewing with the BIAB method. And at the same time we both went from bottles to kegging. ( should of done this years ago). I have a couple questions in regard to brewing the larger quantity of beer.

1. We have a 15 gal sanke keggle as our kettle. According to beersmith with 23lbs of grain our full volume ( water and grains during mash) should be around 14.5 gallons. Should we be ok with this kettle?

2. Is it as simple as finding a 5 gallon all grain recipe and multiplying by 2?

3. Do mash times change?

4. After the boil and cooling the wort is it ok to split the chilled wort Into two separate 6 gallon plastic fermenters?

Thanks!

 

[wilserbrewer]

1. Just my opinion, but for ten gallon batches a 20 gallon kettle works great! Yes, you could use a keggle, but just like you said about bottling..."should have done this years ago". If you are determined to keep the keggle, at the ver least cut the entire top off the keg to make the bag removal easier w/ the larger 10 gal. grain bills. A keggle will likely be small and require a sparge step. Source a ratchet pulley to remove and hang the bag over the kettle to drain.

2. Yes, recipes basicly scale

3. Mash times are the same

4. Splitting into two fermenters not an issue

80 qt inexpensive kettle....
http://www.staples.com/Supera-AP-80-80-qt-Aluminum-Stock-Pot/product_1115173

2 X price....shiny kettle
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-80-QT-Q...544?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6e489130

 

[dmbshen41]

Thanks for the quick response! When you say I will most l
ikely need to sparge is that because you don't think my kettle will be large enough for the grain bill plus spike water? I plugged in a a few different recipes and It seems in most cases I will have half a gallon or so headspace in the keggle. I don't see that being a problem for the mash, but then again I haven't done it, have you had experience with the ten gal. batches using a keggle?

 

[wilserbrewer]

but then again I haven't done it, have you had experience with the ten gal. batches using a keggle?

Nope, I've never used a keggle, just listened to many war stories sitting round the campfire. Just my opinion that a keggle with a narrow opening makes a lousy BIAB kettle, even worse as you move up to 10 gallon batches...

A 15 gallon pot is borderline small for TRUE 10 gallon batches, BIAB exacerbates this problem. Can it be done, yes....would a 20 gallon pot work better....yes IMHO

According to beersmith with 23lbs of grain our full volume ( water and grains during mash) should be around 14.5 gallons. Should we be ok with this kettle?

OK, using you numbers....your mash volume relates to 12.65 gallons strike water....so 12.65 less 2 gallons to grain absorption, less 1.5 gallons boil off, and less 1.5 gallons to yeast trub losses leaves you with around 8 1/2 gallons of beer, NOT 10...hence why a 20 gallon pot is preferred IMHO.....

 

[Jordo_nb]

I have a 15 gal kettle and thought I could handle a 10 gal biab... it was terrible. First of all, the grain was much heavier than I thought it would be. With little room for error, I made a mess pulling the bag and trying to drain it. I had a "stuck sparge" basically where I couldn't fully get the wort out of the grains. And did I mention I made a huge mess?

The other problem is I went from 75% to 55% efficiency because of all the troubles.

Here's a pic of the mash to give you an idea of how tight it was.

Like Wilser said... a bigger kettle or sparge is likely necessary. And a hoist would be helpful too.

 

[dmbshen41]

Alright I will have to try and find a deal on a 20 gal. It will be hard to convince SWMBO. I just purchased four more ball lock kegs..... It's hard to hide those things....

 

[dmbshen41]

The other problem is I went from 75% to 55% efficiency because of all the troubles.


I am having a hard time grasping the Brewers efficiency calculation I took a pre boil gravity reading but I don't know how to calculate efficiency from that number

 

[Jordo_nb]

The other problem is I went from 75% to 55% efficiency because of all the troubles.


I am having a hard time grasping the Brewers efficiency calculation I took a pre boil gravity reading but I don't know how to calculate efficiency from that number

I don't calculate it by hand... I use Beersmith. It calculates things based on the grain bill you choose, the volume and the gravity reading automatically.

 

[dmbshen41]

Nope, I've never used a keggle, just listened to many war stories sitting round the campfire. Just my opinion that a keggle with a narrow opening makes a lousy BIAB kettle, even worse as you move up to 10 gallon batches...



A 15 gallon pot is borderline small for TRUE 10 gallon batches, BIAB exacerbates this problem. Can it be done, yes....would a 20 gallon pot work better....yes IMHO







OK, using you numbers....your mash volume relates to 12.65 gallons strike water....so 12.65 less 2 gallons to grain absorption, less 1.5 gallons boil off, and less 1.5 gallons to yeast trub losses leaves you with around 8 1/2 gallons of beer, NOT 10...hence why a 20 gallon pot is preferred IMHO.....

So do think beersmith is not a reliable source for figuring BIAB volumes?

 

[dmbshen41]

,








OK, using you numbers....your mash volume relates to 12.65 gallons strike water....so 12.65 less 2 gallons to grain absorption, less 1.5 gallons boil off, and less 1.5 gallons to yeast trub losses leaves you with around 8 1/2 gallons of beer, NOT 10...hence why a 20 gallon pot is preferred IMHO.....

Somis beer smith not a reliable source for finding strike water volumes? If so what is the best way

 

[dmbshen41]

,








OK, using you numbers....your mash volume relates to 12.65 gallons strike water....so 12.65 less 2 gallons to grain absorption, less 1.5 gallons boil off, and less 1.5 gallons to yeast trub losses leaves you with around 8 1/2 gallons of beer, NOT 10...hence why a 20 gallon pot is preferred IMHO.....

Is beer smith not a reliable source for finding strike water volumes? If so what is the best way

 

[dmbshen41]

,








OK, using you numbers....your mash volume relates to 12.65 gallons strike water....so 12.65 less 2 gallons to grain absorption, less 1.5 gallons boil off, and less 1.5 gallons to yeast trub losses leaves you with around 8 1/2 gallons of beer, NOT 10...hence why a 20 gallon pot is preferred IMHO.....

Is the beer smith not a reliable source for finding strike water volumes? If so what is the best way

 

[mbbransc]

Beersmith is very reliable... once you have your specific setup and specs entered correctly.

I do a couple 10gal IPA BIAB recipes on an alternating bases and they max out my 80qt Concord kettle. So glad I didn't get a 15gal or I'd still need to go buy a cooler to mash in, or some sort of sparge method.

wilser just gave you a link to a $55 80qt kettle that will work. Can't beat that for value. I picked up the Concord off eBay that came with the 'steamer' that is really a false bottom. I believe it was $106 shipped and it has been great. Higher quality product than I was expecting.

I ordered a custom bag from wilser that included a pully to lift the crazy heavy grain bag and I've been all set.

That would be my recommendation. I considered a keggle as well but most are cut with a 'lip' at the top narrowing the opening which will make it really difficult to lift a 50# sack out of. And I actually like the look of kettles better.

 

[buzz1670]

I do 7.5 gallons in my keggle.5 go in a corny and I bottle a case.Best of both worlds.

 

[jCOSbrew]

I can do 11 gallon BIAB in my 15 gallon kettle using a sparge/rinse/top off step pre-boil. I do get a little lower efficiency and this is not "full volume" BIAB but it works well.

Having a ratchet pull above the kettle is key for larger batches of BIAB IMO.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Thread hijack...sorry.

So I did a stovetop 5-gallon BIAB with dunk sparge...what, last week. Loved it but I am a 10-gallon brew guy. Loved the process and so far the results.

I already have two keggles and was considering converting the the boil kettle into a an eBIAB and eKettle for my three tier. The steamer basket from the 8 gal turkey fryer will fit (with very slight modification) the keggle.

Am I wrong in thinking I could just do a similar dunk sparge process to do 10 gallon batches? So, mash in the keggle while heating the sparge water in the turkey fryer pot. Use a ratcheting pulley to raise the bag in a basket. Have the eyelet of the pulley on a swing arm and swing it to sparge pot and drop it in. Since we are talking 4'ish gallons of sparge water, easy hand dump the boiler.

Does this sound feasible?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Yes, not a problem...ufda

But is the 8 gallon strainer large enough for a 10 gallon grain bill?

Likely fine, perhaps not high gravity....with the right bag you don't need a strainer basket IMO. I would again suggest cutting the top rim off the keggle to enlarge the top opening. Jmo

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Yes, not a problem...ufda

But is the 8 gallon strainer large enough for a 10 gallon grain bill?

Likely fine, perhaps not high gravity....with the right bag you don't need a strainer basket IMO.

I am not wanting to hack the whole top off so a straight bag will be difficult to remove.

The 5-gallon grain bill took up less that half the strainer but this was a low grav beer. Then again, myten gallon beers rarely include more than 22#'s of grain.

 

[RM-MN]

Mill your grains very fine which will work good for BIAB and get such a high efficiency that you can reduce the amount of grains.:rockin:
You can do your sparge with cold water if you want and if your grains are milled fine you won't have time to heat the water much anyway if you only mash until conversion it complete. Take a look at the amount of time I needed to get full conversion and try a shorter mash. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/mash-heresy-tale-3-brew-sessions-519615/

I wouldn't suggest you mash as short as I did in the experiment and someone else needs to try the short mashes with a couple batches to validate or refute my findings but a 30 minute mash seems to be way plenty.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Mill your grains very fine which will work good for BIAB and get such a high efficiency that you can reduce the amount of grains.:rockin:
You can do your sparge with cold water if you want and if your grains are milled fine you won't have time to heat the water much anyway if you only mash until conversion it complete. Take a look at the amount of time I needed to get full conversion and try a shorter mash. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/mash-heresy-tale-3-brew-sessions-519615/

I wouldn't suggest you mash as short as I did in the experiment and someone else needs to try the short mashes with a couple batches to validate or refute my findings but a 30 minute mash seems to be way plenty.

Oh, I over 80% efficiency and I mill pretty fine even when doing the three tier brewery as I have yet to get a stuck sparge with my false bottom. Still, I gained over 5% efficiency over my other set-up so I could theoretically reduce the grain bill by the same if I find that number repeatable.

Hey I know there was a calculator out there for "will it fit" but I am not finding it. Basically it was to see if the grains and water would fit your mash tun.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Hey I know there was a calculator out there for "will it fit" but I am not finding it. Basically it was to see if the grains and water would fit your mash tun.

I like the simple Rackers calculator. "Can I mash it"
http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I like the simple Rackers calculator. "Can I mash it"
http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

Yeah, you have to back into it I guess.

so my biggest 10 gallon batch uses 22#'s and it looks like the largest "safe" volume I can do in the keg (about 14.41 gallons) gives me 10.5 gallons pre-boil and I need about 12. So it certainly appears that using a dunk sparge could work even for my biggest beer but it would be tight.

This just means that for higher grav beers, which I rarely make, I back it down to 7-8 gallons.

Might be contacting you for a custom bag and ratcheting pulley in the near future.

 

[wilserbrewer]

OK, I would use the rackers calculator to confirm that your 22# grain bill will reasonably fit into the strainer basket you have, whatever volume that is? Sparge amounts work out simply as I advise sparging to reach a volume in the pot. No thinking required....just keep sparging till you reach your goal.....foolproof