The most expensive way to Homebrew

[TANSTAAFB]

Holy sh!tsnacks! That's amazing! I guarantee you that I can't think of anything you haven't spent hours considering, so the feedback aspect is going to be less than useful from my end. But THAT my friend is truly an engineering work of art! [emoji482]

 

[MintonHVAC]

Holy sh!tsnacks! That's amazing! I guarantee you that I can't think of anything you haven't spent hours considering, so the feedback aspect is going to be less than useful from my end. But THAT my friend is truly an engineering work of art! [emoji482]

Thank you for your input, there has been many months of contemplation on different features and sensors. I think one of the coolest aspects of the system is the inline refractometer that has temperature compensation. The refractometer made by Atago offers really nice advantages to the Brewing process. The particular refractometer that we used was the atago CMA 800 Alpha.

If anyone knows where to get a dissolved oxygen meter that can be installed in line and have an operating temperature up to 100 c please share your findings.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

So can you walk us through the process, start to finish, with pics? What do you anticipate the price range to be?

 

[MintonHVAC]

Only about 20 feet!

So there are 3 grain silos that will hold 150 lb of grain each.

There is an auger attached to the bottom of each Silo that carries the grain inside my Brewing facility. Once inside it is metered and wait and then sent to the mill for processing.

This run is only about 8 feet or so.

From the mill to the mash tun is about 20 feet away with a Screw Auger and the grain goes into a hydrator before enters the LMT.

I have not designed the Hop distribution system yet but plan to do that in the future.

The first handful of batches will probably be a lot of manual Edition of grain and hops.

The auger system is still being design for both grain and hop management.

This also requires the implementation of another plc as all 96 IO on the current AVG PLC are utilized.

 

[jekeane]

Is the end idea to market this as a picobrew for brew pubs and bars?

 

[MintonHVAC]

So can you walk us through the process, start to finish, with pics? What do you anticipate the price range to be?

This is still in the beta stage and I haven't even got to brew on the system yet.

It's been in development for around 2 years and is finally coming to fruition.

Once the system is fully up and running an operational many documentaries will be posted on YouTube.

To date I have not been able to find a truly fully automated Brewing System.

We went with the AVG PLC because it's iiot ready and I can already control the system from an Android based tablet sitting in my living room.

I'm hoping in the end I can manufacture and sell this product for around $35,000.
The current build has cost $72,000 from testing out different equipment and changing pumps and mixers...

The production model will probably not have a 15in HMI. The screen Alone cast$2,000 and I'm hoping to find a cheaper refractometer as the one we purchased was around $6,000. The mixer is manufactured by MDX processes and was $4,200. And the only reason it cost so much was we opted in for stainless steel everything including the internals and externals of the motor and gearbox.

You can give galvanized and powder-coated finishes on a lot of this equipment for a lot less.

We didn't want to spare any expense as this is going to be the flagship.

 

[MintonHVAC]

Is the end idea to market this as a picobrew for brew pubs and bars?

The target market for this particular product is vast.

From schools to homebrewers and Commercial implementations.

In the next 10 years I plan to open a brewery that is automated on a much larger scale then half a barrel.

For a large company that already Brews beer, adjusting a recipe or to create a new one is really difficult to do if you don't have exact times and temperatures. Definitely you can get a general idea but by taking out the Human error you can get an exact recipe.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Is the end idea to market this as a picobrew for brew pubs and bars?

Sort of what I was thinking. If the retail was $15-20k but was completely automated (plus biofuel as a biproduct!) thus eliminating labor costs it is VERY viable on the brewpub/ nano scale. Even at a half barrel capacity, it could be run on (mostly) autopilot to keep up with demand AND allow for significant variety AND with 99% reproducibility.

 

[MintonHVAC]

Holy poopy (can I say that here?).

I used to work on Lamborghinis and believe you me this is well beyond anything they ever built (and a lot cheaper).

Can anyone say "group buy"...

In all fairness they have made something that actually works quite well, and I'm just in the prototyping stage yet.

My fingers are crossed though!

 

[Metalchef1]

I'm not convinced it takes the "art" out of brewing..... Unless people are using the word "art" to mean error.
You would still need to build the recipe and set all of the parameters just less fear of infecting your batches from improper handling. And this is significantly more exciting than a Pico brew... Look at all that stainless!
Maybe I missed it in the pictures.... Do you have oxygen tanks set up to inject into the wort during pitching?

 

[MintonHVAC]

I'm not convinced it takes the "art" out of brewing..... Unless people are using the word "art" to mean error.
You would still need to build the recipe and set all of the parameters just less fear of infecting your batches from improper handling. And this is significantly more exciting than a Pico brew... Look at all that stainless!
Maybe I missed it in the pictures.... Do you have oxygen tanks set up to inject into the wort during pitching?

Yes we do have oxygen going through CO2 diffusers in the fermenters. But before wort ever sees oxygen it is cooled to 40 degrees first and then brought back up to our pitching temperature which varies from strain to strain. We found by doing this are beer is incredibly clear with no need to add any fining agents. The fermentation control is currently a manual operation set by set points on PID controllers with a glycol chiller. This one day will have its own plc and be integrated into one ubiquitous system.

 

[Metalchef1]

Awesome...

 

[Cyclman]

More like a Bugatti than Lamborghini. Wowza.

 

[DU99]

i am a home brewer like everyone here and the bling looks good but if you go to a function or whatever how do you take a beer that you have made with this BLING..

 

[Metalchef1]

I'd have to assume a Blichmann beer gun?

I'm curious about the output quantity of biodiesel from a standard 5 gallon batch. I understand that it would be based on the grain build but do you have any estimated figures?

 

[Wolfairious]

What about water adjustments? Can it handle that? Awesome set up.

Sent from my VS988 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[MintonHVAC]

i am a home brewer like everyone here and the bling looks good but if you go to a function or whatever how do you take a beer that you have made with this BLING..

LOL I just bring the keg.

 

[MintonHVAC]

I'd have to assume a Blichmann beer gun?

I'm curious about the output quantity of biodiesel from a standard 5 gallon batch. I understand that it would be based on the grain build but do you have any estimated figures?

On the biodigester, no not yet.
That is something that will be investigated in the future and will definitely take some experimentation on its own.
Considering that the by product of the biodigester would need to be separated from its non-volatile counterpart I am slightly hesitant until I have proper licensing to do such an endeavor.

 

[Metalchef1]

I love the idea....

 

[MintonHVAC]

What about water adjustments? Can it handle that? Awesome set up.

Sent from my VS988 using Home Brew mobile app

Currently for water adjustments it cannot.
Most of the beer I brew I don't adjust the water profile. I'm located in the mountains of Northern California and have some pretty darn good water right out of the tap. Before it sees any Brewing ingredients it does pass through a filtration system that strips sodium hypochlorite and other undesirable chemicals from the water.
If I was in a location that didn't have a deal water I would definitely Implement something and I'm sure it would not be hard to do with some peristaltic pump Magic.
This is a very interesting point that I have not thought about as it's not something that I would have even considered due to the quality of the water I currently use and the beer Styles I brew.

I'm definitely going to take a note of this for future implementation.

Thank you very much for your help!

 

[MintonHVAC]

I love the idea....

And hopefully it's just going to be an idea for 3 more months... It's only been 25 months and Counting.

 

[MintonHVAC]

Awesome...

Thank you! It was a lot of hard work and dedication over the last two years.

 

[thehaze]

It looks absolutely gorgeous and mind blowing...Great work! This must mean a lot for you, seeing you invested that much in the project.

If I had over 70000 dollars, I would open myself my own brewery.

 

[Metalchef1]

Do you have any intention of up scaling and down scaling the system based on need? I'd assume when 1.0 is complete it should be a fairly easy endeavor?

 

[MintonHVAC]

It looks absolutely gorgeous and mind blowing...Great work! This must mean a lot for you, seeing you invested that much in the project.

If I had over 70000 dollars, I would open myself my own brewery.

Well my two favorite things in the whole world are beer and automation.
My previous system was very I guess small and very manual... And pretty much all NPT fittings which are not sanitary whatsoever. Luckily it's on the hot side so it's not like the end of the world. Also getting rid of the ridiculous blichmann plate chiller that always got plugged with hop matter will be worth every penny!

 

[MintonHVAC]

Do you have any intention of up scaling and down scaling the system based on need? I'd assume when 1.0 is complete it should be a fairly easy endeavor?

Yes pretty much all these systems will be custom made to order and the particular stainless steel vessel that we use is a 14 gauge pharmaceutical shipping drum that can be purchased up words of 75 gallons and as small as 3 gallons.

They are definitely the thickest and the most heaviest seamless process drum I have found.

 

[Metalchef1]

Amazing.... I want one... No idea where I'd get the money but I want one.

 

[Metalchef1]

Do the silos have the ability to mill the grain or will that be done before?

 

[myndflyte]

Do the silos have the ability to mill the grain or will that be done before?

I believe OP mentioned earlier the silos will house the grain and will be weighed out and sent to a mill. But correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Metalchef1]

You are right... I glanced over that..

 

[Vandulus]

Pardon me while I wipe the drool off my mouth. That is one impressive system! As an option for those that may not use RO water, you may look at adding a pH/TDS meter as part of the water influent system. Also where/how would one add water additions such as gypsum, calcium chloride and phosphoric/lactic acid?

 

[csurowiec]

It’s quite impressive. I admire your dedication to this endeavor. At your projected price point I think some of the 1-2 barrel tiny breweries popping up everywhere would be very interested. I’m not sure how many Homebrewers would be willing to part with $35k to have that in their house but all the homebrewers I know aren’t in that tax bracket.

 

[Biscuits]

Just....wow

 

[Wolfairious]

Currently for water adjustments it cannot.
Most of the beer I brew I don't adjust the water profile. I'm located in the mountains of Northern California and have some pretty darn good water right out of the tap. Before it sees any Brewing ingredients it does pass through a filtration system that strips sodium hypochlorite and other undesirable chemicals from the water.
If I was in a location that didn't have a deal water I would definitely Implement something and I'm sure it would not be hard to do with some peristaltic pump Magic.
This is a very interesting point that I have not thought about as it's not something that I would have even considered due to the quality of the water I currently use and the beer Styles I brew.

I'm definitely going to take a note of this for future implementation.

Thank you very much for your help!

I love playing with water adjustments to see the effect on beer and this system would take out all the other variables. Glad I could put an idea into your head.

 

[madscientist451]

Yes the production model will cost a lot less. Anytime you're prototyping something you can plan to spend about 4 to 5 times the actual cost. There's been many revisions in mistakes made and when buying a single item from a company it does cost a lot more versus buying a hundred of them.
Thank you for your feedback it is greatly appreciated!

The original post mentioned a cost to this point of $72,000? Is that parts alone?
If the prototype is 4-5 times the cost of the production model, does that mean that parts alone are going to run $14,000 to $18,000? If you add $15,000 to $20,000 to the parts to cover things like labor, insurance, other general overhead costs, customer support and shipping, the final cost will be somewhere between $29,000 and $48,000?
If you want to make a reasonable return on investment, you have to add that on top of the above price range.
It looks like a huge amount of time and energy went into the project and the results may be interesting, but the projected price is just too high.
I'd say your chance of selling a 20 gallon, $50,000+ system to anyone is about zero.

 

[JayDog]

Looks incredible, my only problem is that there is way too much to take apart and clean. Well that and the price.

 

[troutman]

.....If anyone knows where to get a dissolved oxygen meter that can be installed in line and have an operating temperature up to 100 c please share your findings.

Finding an O2 sensor that can take 100C is very difficult. Contact Anton-Parr and ask them, they are great to deal with if there is one available they will know.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Impressive! Clearly aside from the financial investment, you've put many hours into thinking of everything and the build. Best to you and your success.

 

[MaxStout]

As a former EE, I have to say your wiring inside that panel is very well-done. Not a mass of spaghetti, like a few I've seen. Everything running in and out of those terminal blocks is neatly organized and bundled. If you ever need to troubleshoot, it's much easier to trace circuits.

You've put a lot of thought and effort (not to mention $$) into your system. You might find yourself drinking a homebrew and just sitting there admiring the rig.

 

[BREWBYRD]

BREWERS PORN!! ILL BE IN THE BATHROOM! [emoji7][emoji7][emoji7][emoji7]