The Home Made Pizza Thread

[Redpappy]

Thank you!
By "shortening" you mean like Crisco?
Not sure how to get that "red hot". Maybe put them inside the grill on high?

from what I have read, you scrub them clean ( steak pad) ie wit a Then you have to reseason them, Clean, then you oil them ( Chris / olive oil) and put in oven at low temp for 2-3 hours.

 

[davidabcd]

I checked the fridge dough. Perspective-wise, it's 3 1/2 pounds. After less than 24 hours, it has stopped rising and has fallen. I expected this to happen but what is the benefit of refrigeration if there's no fermenting going on? I could take a guess but I don't really know. I'm still going to let it ride for the 3-4 days because I need a starting point if there are improvements to be made.
I was very tempted to pull it this morning and let it rise and then back into the fridge but the recipe didn't say to do this.
I'll post my results as they occur for those who are waiting on the edge of their seats.

 

[davidabcd]

I would like to reiterate and ask what is the benefit of refrigeration if there's no fermenting going on? I've seen some pretty sharp pizza dough makers here and would appreciate some input/advice/experience.
Thank you in advance.

 

[brewbama]

It give the dough flavor. I believe it builds structure as well.

 

[davidabcd]

It give the dough flavor. I believe it builds structure as well.

Thanks. I am all in for flavor. I've made some real, frozen pizza quality dough in the past which is disappointing. So letting it sit puts it in the "conditioning" category and it will taste better as a result then? I can appreciate that.
I'm going to keep a close eye on this one when I make the pizza and be fairly critical (in a good way). I've seen some of the output here and those airy crust photos are beyond appealing to me since I've never come close so far.

 

[davidabcd]

Fridge dough diary, a little shy of 48 hours now. I was wrong; the dough is still fermenting whereas I thought it had stopped completely. It's blobbed its way to filling the entire container bottom now and halfway up toward the top. All that with zero sugar. The smell is really strong, maybe pungent? I've opened it briefly a few times but don't know if that matters or not.

Only one more day. It's like waiting for Christmas morning. I get to go shopping today for fresh basil, soft mozzarella, brick cheese, jack cheese, tomato, green pepper and pepperoni.

 

[Staestc]

Pizza party last night with daughter, her husband, and my grandson. Did two New York style pizzas from dough I made yesterday morning, and one Chicago Thin style from 72 hour cold ferment. Two completely different sauces. The Chi Thin sauce was loaded with herbs and would be very good on pasta too.
In order, NYS 1/2 sausage 1/2 cheese, NYS Salami Pepperoni Sausage Chorizo and Calabrian Chilies, and Chi Thin with Pepperoni Sausage Chorizo and Salami.

 

[elgatovolador]

Thanks, everyone!

I'm using 00 Caputo pizzeria flour (the blue bag). These fermented for 23 hours in a 68F room, 0.03% instant dry yeast. For Neapolitan, my friends and I have actually preferred the taste of one-day, room temp ferments to three-day cold ferments.

View attachment 655380 View attachment 655381

I have a similar approach to yours. I usually batch ferment room temp at 68-70 deg F, 0.03% IDY for about 12-14 hrs and then ball them up and let them sit for another 3-4 hrs.

So far they come out with good flavor but I’m missing the airy light puffiness I’m looking for in a Neapolitan pizza.

Not sure what the consensus is on correct procedures in this area...
Do you let it all ferment together and then ball up and stretch into a pie or do you let them ferment balled up and then you stretch it out into a pie, or do you do like me where you batch ferment for the majority of the time and then you ball up and let it finish up before stretching out?

 

[Hanglow]

You are balling a bit late, I'd let it go 8hrs in balls.

I found this calculator the best, it tells you the ideal time when to ball and you can go quite advanced with it

http://www.calbal.altervista.org/

 

[Staestc]

Cooked another Chicago thin from the same dough make last night. That would put the dough at 96 hours. This time just with Margarita pepperoni and Calabrian chilies. Result was awesome!

 

[applescrap]

Looks great, what is your oven technique?

Cooked another Chicago thin from the same dough make last night. That would put the dough at 96 hours. This time just with Margarita pepperoni and Calabrian chilies. Result was awesome!
View attachment 656151

 

[Staestc]

Looks great, what is your oven technique?

Thanks!

For the New York style dough I preheat the steel at electric oven max bake of 550F for 45 minutes to an hour, continue to bake at that temp for 2-3 minutes, then switch to high broil until done.

For the Chicago Thin Style dough I preheat steel at max bake 550F, turn it down to 450F bake right before putting the pizza in, then just let it cook like that till it's done.

 

[davidabcd]

Gearing up for some cold ferment pizzas.
Brought out the slice for the pepperoni stick. I can do it by hand but slicer was better and actually easy to clean when it's just a single stick.
Got exactly 3 16oz doughs and an 8oz which might be weird since I weighed metrically.

 

[davidabcd]

Got a few photos from the pizza cooking. The crust is probably the best round crust I've made. The 3:2 brick:jack was good.

Margherita.

Cheese and pepperoni.

Pizza turnover

 

[applescrap]

That sounds awesome. That is the inspiration I needed. Seems broil of some kind really does the crust and top nice. I have tried broiler before but need to again. I have been going 550 with steel on bottom and then putting pizza on top to finish while sliding next on. Parchment lengthens the bottom cook and I need to remove it quicker and maybe throw a pizza for crying out loud. My dough is often wet so that is a pita. But I do it for the pizza oven.

Thanks!

For the New York style dough I preheat the steel at electric oven max bake of 550F for 45 minutes to an hour, continue to bake at that temp for 2-3 minutes, then switch to high broil until done.

For the Chicago Thin Style dough I preheat steel at max bake 550F, turn it down to 450F bake right before putting the pizza in, then just let it cook like that till it's done.

 

[Staestc]

Used up the last of the Chicago thin style dough last night. It was 120 hours old and still performed and tasted great! About a pound of Italian sausage plus the Calabrian chilies that I am so in love with! Sauce was Garvey's recipe made from paste with a ton of herbs and fennel.

 

[Staestc]

Got a few photos from the pizza cooking. The crust is probably the best round crust I've made. The 3:2 brick:jack was good.View attachment 656235
Margherita. View attachment 656236
Cheese and pepperoni. View attachment 656237
Pizza turnover View attachment 656238 View attachment 656239 View attachment 656240 View attachment 656241

Those are all just awesome!

 

[davidabcd]

Those

Thanks.

 

[davidabcd]

So I had one dough from the cold ferment left over. Technically, it's a five-day, cold ferment. I pressed this 14oz piece out while cold into a well-oiled 10" X 14" pan. I'll let it relax and rise for an hour or two and press it out all the way. I will report on the finished product regarding the dough quality, itself, after five days in the fridge and of using a dough not specifically meant for square pizza.
I just find this kind of experimentation very exciting.

 

[davidabcd]

Large square green pepper and onion.

Crust shot.

The cheese caramelized nicely at the sides and was very crunchy.

All in all, a very successful cooking session. I hardly say that ever (may not actually have ever said that); I usually find ten things wrong. What I learned: 1. Crushed tomatoes do a stellar job as a base. 2. Five days in the fridge is not a deal breaker. 3. 550°F is just fine as an oven temp. 4. Neapolitan dough works great for square pizza. 5. 3:2 (brick cheese:monterey jack) is a solid ratio and combination.

 

[applescrap]

My dough sits in the fridge for up to two weeks. I used to do 18 hr room temp, but have been doing two hour rise and then in fridge for up to two weeks. Gets better with age theoretically but I like it fresh too. Imo better flour seems to work better and taste better.

 

[Staestc]

My new mixer came yesterday afternoon. Scored this from the Nutrimill Site for $129 with everything you see below! It is still on sale for $129, but without the Baker's Kit, so you don't get the plastic paddle things and the plastic bowl scraper things. I love my Kitchen Aid, and will continue to use it primarily for grinding meat and making pasta, since I have those attachments, but this new mixer is primarily for bread and pizza dough. I will try and make some pizza dough tonight to see if it lives up to all the good reviews I have seen!

P.S. Pleasanthillgrain.com has it back on sale for $129 too, but again without the Baker's Pack.

 

[Redpappy]

My dough sits in the fridge for up to two weeks. I used to do 18 hr room temp, but have been doing two hour rise and then in fridge for up to two weeks. Gets better with age theoretically but I like it fresh too. Imo better flour seems to work better and taste better.

Are you using a basic dough receipe, i.e. flour,sugar, yeast, tad salt?
I really haven't experimented with my dough, as far as how long i can keep it in the fridge before it goes bad. My last batch that i did, i had 2 dough balls, used one that day, stuck the second one in the fridge. I used it 2 days later and seemed fine, other than being stuck to the lid and sides of the bowl.

 

[applescrap]

No its a lean dough. The 5 minute a day artesian recipe, although it could be done with less yeast. That would make it more like the no knead recipes. Its just water, salt, yeast and flour. And also diastatic malt powder. Its versatility, ease of making, and 2 week longetivity keep me going back to it. I like the toothier cinnamon rolls and only cut salt. I also make bread and bread sticks. Haha the breadsticks are good. I spread the dough with California ranch evoo or better butter and bake. When it comes out I butter it heavily, its good.

Are you using a basic dough receipe, i.e. flour,sugar, yeast, tad salt?
I really haven't experimented with my dough, as far as how long i can keep it in the fridge before it goes bad. My last batch that i did, i had 2 dough balls, used one that day, stuck the second one in the fridge. I used it 2 days later and seemed fine, other than being stuck to the lid and sides of the bowl.

 

[italarican]

Fridge dough diary, a little shy of 48 hours now. I was wrong; the dough is still fermenting whereas I thought it had stopped completely. It's blobbed its way to filling the entire container bottom now and halfway up toward the top. All that with zero sugar. The smell is really strong, maybe pungent? I've opened it briefly a few times but don't know if that matters or not.
View attachment 656006
Only one more day. It's like waiting for Christmas morning. I get to go shopping today for fresh basil, soft mozzarella, brick cheese, jack cheese, tomato, green pepper and pepperoni.

Yeah, fridge temps slow down, but don't stop, fermentation. This slow down allows the opportunity for a greater depth of flavor.

 

[italarican]

I have a similar approach to yours. I usually batch ferment room temp at 68-70 deg F, 0.03% IDY for about 12-14 hrs and then ball them up and let them sit for another 3-4 hrs.

So far they come out with good flavor but I’m missing the airy light puffiness I’m looking for in a Neapolitan pizza.

Not sure what the consensus is on correct procedures in this area...
Do you let it all ferment together and then ball up and stretch into a pie or do you let them ferment balled up and then you stretch it out into a pie, or do you do like me where you batch ferment for the majority of the time and then you ball up and let it finish up before stretching out?

I have the dough in roughly 2/3 bulk ferment, 1/3 balled. Basically, I leave the dough to bulk ferment overnight and divide into balls when I get up the morning of pizza day. So something like make dough at 5pm and ball it at 8 the next morning >>> 15 hours bulk, 8 hours balled.

 

[davidabcd]

Yeah, fridge temps slow down, but don't stop, fermentation. This slow down allows the opportunity for a greater depth of flavor.

That was a fun thing to learn. Usually, "edible" is the best thing I can say about my round pizza dough attempts. The long ferment made it taste much better. I see some folks here on both sides of the fence (fridge/no fridge) and because of that I'm going to do a 24 hour ferment at room temperature with the same dough for a comparison.
I have a feeling that not adding sugar played a positive role all on its own.

 

[italarican]

That was a fun thing to learn. Usually, "edible" is the best thing I can say about my round pizza dough attempts. The long ferment made it taste much better. I see some folks here on both sides of the fence (fridge/no fridge) and because of that I'm going to do a 24 hour ferment at room temperature with the same dough for a comparison.
I have a feeling that not adding sugar played a positive role all on its own.

The sugar helps with browning but can detract from a crisp exterior. The sugar you use for browning can be greatly reduced or even eliminated with a longer (thus colder) ferment; thus, you have a better chance at dough that browns as well but has more of a crunch on the outside.

You can certainly follow your plan with same dough at room temp vs. cold ferment, but the length of time and temp factors into how much yeast is optimal that they might not truly be "equal" outside of those factors. Eventually, I'd recommend keeping all your non-yeast ingredients the same but changing your yeast % for the cold vs. room temp ferments.

Below is the chart I use to figure out yeast, temp, and fermentation times. These aren't to be taken rigidly but are seen as a general guideline.

 

[applescrap]

Pizza pie, anyone want a pizza pie. Man oh man, the slicing technique works well! I am addicted to this. The big guy was 13 in slices, some of them. Please excuse my hand but I had to show you a 13 in long slice of pizza. Fold it, gnaw away, haha, I looked up and my son was slurping the cheese off the top, and I thought this is what its all about. I threw it with a half sheet cookie tray. It was like the two were made for each other. Awesome.

Update on oven cook method 10,000.3. Preheated at 550 for long enough and then switch to broil after a few minutes worked great. Made a smaller one first.

 

[davidabcd]

@applescrap Those look great. Yeah, photo number two is winner.

 

[davidabcd]

I have 2.5 pounds of pizza dough proofing since I have a ton of cheese left overI. I made a few changes. I added a teaspoon of garlic powder and onion powder, upped the salt, added a tablespoon of vital wheat gluten. I also didn't use sugar. I'm hoping it will proof well enough over the next six hours to use today.
Edit 3 hours later: Worried about nothing. I can't even tell there was no sugar--dough is just blowing up.

 

[davidabcd]

Lots of pizza. Two small squares with cheese.

Large square with pepperoni

Crust shot.

 

[applescrap]

Looks super good! Is there sauce below and on top? I like the wsy that crust looks.

 

[davidabcd]

Thank you.
No, only sauce on top in that picture. Traditionally, these squares are built: dough, meat (except bacon), cheese, vegetables, sauce. Bacon on top because of its characteristics. I like the pepperoni crisp and also how it looks on top of the cheese so I break that "rule." I do the same with ham.
In any case, I think the pizza would be just as good with sauce on the bottom. It might just be custom to put it on top for presentation's sake or that having the sauce on top helps to keep the cheese from sliding off when you take a bite.

 

[Staestc]

I've gotta try my hand at Detroit style pizzas pretty soon. Just looks great David.

Last night's NYC style pies from the same recipe I have been using with AT flour. Used a 50/50 mix of mozz and monterey jack this time, still with a little provolone and medium cheddar and post bake Parm Reg and loved the cheese blend. A good time was had by all!

 

[jimbostarr]

Pizza pie, anyone want a pizza pie. Man oh man, the slicing technique works well! I am addicted to this. The big guy was 13 in slices, some of them. Please excuse my hand but I had to show you a 13 in long slice of pizza. Fold it, gnaw away, haha, I looked up and my son was slurping the cheese off the top, and I thought this is what its all about. I threw it with a half sheet cookie tray. It was like the two were made for each other. Awesome.

Update on oven cook method 10,000.3. Preheated at 550 for long enough and then switch to broil after a few minutes worked great. Made a smaller one first.

View attachment 656882View attachment 656883View attachment 656884View attachment 656885View attachment 656886

Are you baking the crust first, then adding toppings? Also what type of oven are you using?

Thanks

 

[Curtis2010]

We've been learning to make decent pizza recently. Were having trouble with it being too wet. Had an pizza epiphany when I learned its all about cooking hot & fast! To test that theory I made up a small pizza with the wettest ingredients possible: lots of sauce, fresh uncooked veggies, fresh sliced tomatoes, queso blanco (fresh cheese, very wet). Cooked at 500F for about 7 minutes...it was a bit moist, but nothing like the pizza stews we've been making....as a result of not cooking hot enough.

Made up a "normal" one, cooked at 500F, and it turned out awesome (thats the pic)!

 

[brewbama]

We've been learning to make decent pizza recently. Were having trouble with it being too wet. Had an pizza epiphany when I learned its all about cooking hot & fast! To test that theory I made up a small pizza with the wettest ingredients possible: lots of sauce, fresh uncooked veggies, fresh sliced tomatoes, queso blanco (fresh cheese, very wet). Cooked at 500F for about 7 minutes...it was a bit moist, but nothing like the pizza stews we've been making....as a result of not cooking hot enough.

Made up a "normal" one, cooked at 500F, and it turned out awesome (thats the pic)!


View attachment 657246

If you’re using a home oven, one tip is to place the rack near the top of a 550*F oven (the hottest part of the oven).

 

[Curtis2010]

If you’re using a home oven, one tip is to place the rack near the top of a 550*F oven (the hottest part of the oven).

Havent tried our home over yet. Our gas grill sets up pretty well as an oven (have used for bread in the past). Gets to about 500F.

 

[applescrap]

I have par baked the crust before. Those attempts are on this thread. It works well but is time consuming and can create a little to crisp crust. I have an electric and made those by preheating to 550 for plenty of time and then cooking for 2 minutes or so, then switching to boil for rest of time. Staestc gave me the idea a few posts back. I have tried every which way but loose. Another good way is to cook them on the bottom and then move to top to brown. This frees room for another pizza. Getting the steel good and hot then switching to broil after a few minutes did a great job on top and bottom.

You will notice splotchy spots on bottom because of how parchment sticks. Not as good as throwing, but a lot less messy too. So a lot to consider. After the wood fire, nothing from the oven even comes close. The chewy wood fire pizza is one of a kind. The oven more crisp. The huge ny style was awesome and will be my go to from now on. It allows me to cook waaaay less pizzas. Since a 24 in screen wont fit, this seems the best options for the huge folded slice. Hope I helped in all that and best of luck.

Are you baking the crust first, then adding toppings? Also what type of oven are you using?

Thanks