The Gruit Beer Thread
- Thread starter Miraculix
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OP
OP
Salve!
There is currently an article on the homebrewtalk start homepage about using spices in beer. It also covers some basic ideas about the amount. I would definitely tend to the lower end of the range, thyme is strong stuff!
There is currently an article on the homebrewtalk start homepage about using spices in beer. It also covers some basic ideas about the amount. I would definitely tend to the lower end of the range, thyme is strong stuff!
premington
Well-Known Member
Greetings my Brewing Brethren!
For anyone following how my gruit has been doing, here's an update.
It's been eight days since bottling, and since today was a Scotch Ale Brew Day, I couldn't help but try the gruit while brewing.
Taste was very surprising. As expected, the beer blossomed in the bottle, but it's not done carbonating and conditioning. It's remarkably clear. Properly decanted, it pours with not a bit of sediment on the bottom of the glass or in suspension. My nephew, who was my brewing helper, shook his up--he wanted to try the yeast (some like that). His glass had particles floating around and tasted mildly sweeter, for some reason.
Anyway... The taste had a wonderful spicy body, although I'm not sure exactly what was giving it that spicy flavor. Tests with teas told me it was probably the juniper berries and sweet gale. A floral flavor was present, which was probably coming from the chamomile and yarrow. A nice tea flavor was apparent in the background, which was most certainly the sweet gale. I remember this pleasant taste when I made a tea with it. Residual sweetness wasn't overly perceptible; it leaned on the dry side. Malt was present in smell and taste with a touch of grain. Bitter was very balanced with absolutely no perception of the astringency wormwood imparts.
Color is dark brown, but clear. In light, hints of gold and amber are revealed
If I wasn't told this was a gruit, I'd think this was a very interesting beer with a hop flavor I've never tasted before, and I say that in a positive way. It's surprisingly different in it's taste profile. My nephew sort of liked it, but he wasn't a fan of the floral flavors. I loved it, but each person's taste is unique. It's not a sessionable beer. Two is about the max of what I'd probably consume. Maybe three, if the buzz is good.
Since it hasn't fully carbonated, there was a weak head after the pour, but this dissipated to almost no head, except for a faint ring of bubbles touching the glass. Rising bubbles were occasional. The mouthfeel, on the other hand, was nice. Oats added body, and carbonation on the tongue was nicely presented.
Overall, I'm real happy. I didn't expect the spicy, malty body. It's still a little young though. I'm concerned the Ringwood Ale yeast flocculated and dropped out of suspension too efficiently, and I'll end up with an under-carbonated beer. Only time will tell.
Right now, it's developing into a beautifully unique and tasty brew. :rockin:
For anyone following how my gruit has been doing, here's an update.
It's been eight days since bottling, and since today was a Scotch Ale Brew Day, I couldn't help but try the gruit while brewing.
Taste was very surprising. As expected, the beer blossomed in the bottle, but it's not done carbonating and conditioning. It's remarkably clear. Properly decanted, it pours with not a bit of sediment on the bottom of the glass or in suspension. My nephew, who was my brewing helper, shook his up--he wanted to try the yeast (some like that). His glass had particles floating around and tasted mildly sweeter, for some reason.
Anyway... The taste had a wonderful spicy body, although I'm not sure exactly what was giving it that spicy flavor. Tests with teas told me it was probably the juniper berries and sweet gale. A floral flavor was present, which was probably coming from the chamomile and yarrow. A nice tea flavor was apparent in the background, which was most certainly the sweet gale. I remember this pleasant taste when I made a tea with it. Residual sweetness wasn't overly perceptible; it leaned on the dry side. Malt was present in smell and taste with a touch of grain. Bitter was very balanced with absolutely no perception of the astringency wormwood imparts.
Color is dark brown, but clear. In light, hints of gold and amber are revealed
If I wasn't told this was a gruit, I'd think this was a very interesting beer with a hop flavor I've never tasted before, and I say that in a positive way. It's surprisingly different in it's taste profile. My nephew sort of liked it, but he wasn't a fan of the floral flavors. I loved it, but each person's taste is unique. It's not a sessionable beer. Two is about the max of what I'd probably consume. Maybe three, if the buzz is good.
Since it hasn't fully carbonated, there was a weak head after the pour, but this dissipated to almost no head, except for a faint ring of bubbles touching the glass. Rising bubbles were occasional. The mouthfeel, on the other hand, was nice. Oats added body, and carbonation on the tongue was nicely presented.
Overall, I'm real happy. I didn't expect the spicy, malty body. It's still a little young though. I'm concerned the Ringwood Ale yeast flocculated and dropped out of suspension too efficiently, and I'll end up with an under-carbonated beer. Only time will tell.
Right now, it's developing into a beautifully unique and tasty brew. :rockin:
OP
OP
Sounds awesome! Still no trace of souring?
premington
Well-Known Member
Correct... No trace of souring... YET!
I'm aware that it could creep into the brew over time. So far, so good!Last night, I turned all the bottles upside-down to bring the yeast back into suspension. Thursday I'll turn them back over, and then try another next Saturday and see how the carbonation is going. Hopefully it'll carb up well.
What surprises me about this batch is, this is my first ever gruit, and it appears I nailed the herbal concentrations in one brew. So if anyone's reading this and thinking of doing a gruit, making test teas BEFORE you brew helps enormously in deciding what to add and in what concentration.
My main concern was adding too much wormwood. A scant 2 grams in 6 gallons worked out well. Wormwood can ruin a gruit, but I've learned it actually works really well as a bittering agent if it's added in proper concentration.
OP
OP
That sounds really good. I agree regarding the tea. The author of "how to brew like a viking" wrote that he went the complicated route at first (like me) brewing single herb beers first to figure out how the herbs behaved when brewed with. He also writes that a friend of him does only use your tea method and that he did get at least the same amount of knowledge regarding amount and flavour of the herb this way... The author now also only brews teas (as I will do as well ).
).
I don't make teas, but I do chew on the raw herbs to see what they might add and how strong they are.
OP
OP
Please do not do this with wormwood
....... well......
hmmmm.....
.....
BAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH tastes awfull!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wouldn't dare.
The one gruit I have brewed has been in the bottle for about 3-4 mos and there is no sourness. I cant say I'm the fussiest about sanitation, but I put all of my herbs for at least 1 min of the boil. I also used culinary rosemary and some sage these may have similar properties to hops as for antibacterial. Don't know, but I believe several of the gruit herbs do have some antibacterial properties.
premington
Well-Known Member
This is nice info to have. I think many of us wonder how long a gruit can last in the bottle. Knowing you weren't very fussy about the herbal boil time and your sanitation, yet you have good brew in the bottle after 3+ months, is nice to read!
If mine doesn't get drunk too fast, I'll report how it's doing as time goes by. If I get six months out of all these bottles, that'll be impressive. I mean, I think it'll get drunk before then.
OP
OP
I was thinking about using sage for that reason as well. Maybe I will do a batch with it to see if it sours or not.
premington
Well-Known Member
This is nice info to have. I think many of us wonder how long a gruit can last in the bottle. Knowing you weren't very fussy about the herbal boil time and your sanitation, yet you have good brew in the bottle after 3+ months, is nice to read!
If mine doesn't get drunk too fast, I'll report how it's doing as time goes by. If I get six months out of all these bottles, that'll be impressive. I mean, I think it'll get drunk before then.
I only made a two gal batch, and I have one bottle left. The problem with doing such small batches is with all grain it takes almost as long to brew 2 gals as it does 5. I was thinking about using strait DME or LME and go strait to the boil, maybe with a little steeping grain for character. What do yall think? :rockin:
Stealthcruiser
Well-Known Member
I don't think you'll do it.......
premington
Well-Known Member
You could do that, as a shortcut. Why not just mash a larger amount. Do you have the right size equipment to make a five gallon batch?
premington
Well-Known Member
Greetings All!
I have a gruit update to share... It relates to the buzz.
My buddy came over on Saturday, and we cracked a few gruits. It's delicious... getting better by the week. It carbonated more since trying it last week, but still has a ways to go. I think the Ringwood Ale yeast drops out so cleanly, it impacts carbonation. Even though the head dies out quickly, there's plenty of effervescence on the tongue when drinking, so the mouthfeel is quite pleasant.
The big update to report was the buzz. I was really amazed. After only one gruit (ABV about 5.5%, if I remember right), I had to stop and give it some time before having another. I felt really, really weird. Not like alcohol at all. It felt... well... like weed! I felt light headed and a little disassociated... removed from my body. Contrasts were affected, with light and dark visuals being more pronounced. It left a cannabis-like buzz that really surprised me. It wasn't an unpleasant feeling at all. In fact, it was quite pleasant! But it was very noticeable, without mistake, and clearly different than regular alcoholic beer.
Now... I have MS, so I'm on some medications that may have reacted to the mild narcotics in the yarrow, sweet gale, and wormwood. But I'm not certain about this. Maybe I'm just sensitive to the psychoactive properties in the gruit.
I drank two more over the span of about three more hours, and the buzz was very present. I found after about an hour to an hour and a half, the buzz starts to die off. But I have to be careful. If I drink too much, too fast, I think the buzz will become a bit intense.
But I consider this a positive feature of this brew. I'm just curious, have any of you experienced a different buzz from your gruit?
Interestingly, my buddy didn't get the same reaction as I did, which lead me to think perhaps the effect is being magnified by other medication I'm on. But I'm not sure. I'm curious to hear from each of you.
I have a gruit update to share... It relates to the buzz.
My buddy came over on Saturday, and we cracked a few gruits. It's delicious... getting better by the week. It carbonated more since trying it last week, but still has a ways to go. I think the Ringwood Ale yeast drops out so cleanly, it impacts carbonation. Even though the head dies out quickly, there's plenty of effervescence on the tongue when drinking, so the mouthfeel is quite pleasant.
The big update to report was the buzz. I was really amazed. After only one gruit (ABV about 5.5%, if I remember right), I had to stop and give it some time before having another. I felt really, really weird. Not like alcohol at all. It felt... well... like weed! I felt light headed and a little disassociated... removed from my body. Contrasts were affected, with light and dark visuals being more pronounced. It left a cannabis-like buzz that really surprised me. It wasn't an unpleasant feeling at all. In fact, it was quite pleasant! But it was very noticeable, without mistake, and clearly different than regular alcoholic beer.
Now... I have MS, so I'm on some medications that may have reacted to the mild narcotics in the yarrow, sweet gale, and wormwood. But I'm not certain about this. Maybe I'm just sensitive to the psychoactive properties in the gruit.
I drank two more over the span of about three more hours, and the buzz was very present. I found after about an hour to an hour and a half, the buzz starts to die off. But I have to be careful. If I drink too much, too fast, I think the buzz will become a bit intense.
But I consider this a positive feature of this brew. I'm just curious, have any of you experienced a different buzz from your gruit?
Interestingly, my buddy didn't get the same reaction as I did, which lead me to think perhaps the effect is being magnified by other medication I'm on. But I'm not sure. I'm curious to hear from each of you.
I haven't noticed effects like that from my own gruits. I think it's possible; on the other hand, there is also such thing as the "placebo effect". I can't say which one is happening without experiencing it myself.
OP
OP
I agree.
Although I definetely felt a different Buzz than Hopped beer, espacially with my yarrow only gruit. A friend of mine said the same without me telling him about the properties of yarrow before, he just said something like "Uh, this one kicks in with more impact than the ones before, does it have more alcohol in it? I cannot taste more, but i feel more."
For me it was the same with yarrow, ggot me drunk quicker. With ground ivy the drunkenness felt "cleaner", not so confused and a bit more active. But the GI Gruit effect could also have been placebo as it was one of my first gruits and subconciously I WANTED to feel a different buzz
But I think it is also possible that you might got some interaction with your medication. What type of medication is it? Is it known for that?
premington
Well-Known Member
I agree.
Although I definetely felt a different Buzz than Hopped beer, espacially with my yarrow only gruit. A friend of mine said the same without me telling him about the properties of yarrow before, he just said something like "Uh, this one kicks in with more impact than the ones before, does it have more alcohol in it? I cannot taste more, but i feel more."
For me it was the same with yarrow, ggot me drunk quicker. With ground ivy the drunkenness felt "cleaner", not so confused and a bit more active. But the GI Gruit effect could also have been placebo as it was one of my first gruits and subconciously I WANTED to feel a different buzz
But I think it is also possible that you might got some interaction with your medication. What type of medication is it? Is it known for that?
Hmmm... I don't know what to think. Placebo effect *is* a powerful thing; youre correct about that. But I don't feel that's coming into play here. The week previous, my nephew and I drank one and I felt nothing odd... It was just like drinking a beer. But this weekend was something completely different! Consciously, I wasn't looking for anything odd or different. I already drank it last weekend, so why would I expect anything different? To be honest, I don't drink for the effect. I'm most interested in flavor. And since I had it last weekend, I thought I knew what to expect.
The night before, I took medication that I use for MS-related neuropathic pain. I'm beginning to think perhaps this was still in my system and the gruit magnified the effect. We drank the gruit about 14 hours after I took the medicine. Regular beer doesn't do this to me with this medication, when I drink the beer the following day. But perhaps the herbal narcotics, even in small amounts, react with this medication.
I guess time will tell. I just wanted to compare my experience with others here. As I said, my friend didn't experience anything unusual, but that might be because he doesnt take what I take.
Interesting...
premington
Well-Known Member
Miraculix: How much yarrow did you use in your yarrow gruit?
I do, and I could easily brew 7 or 8 gals next batch and use the extra to make my gruit. I even have two burners so I can do the boil simultaneously. Thanks Premington, that is a great idea. Even easier than doing an extract only brew.
Premington, that I a great idea. I have the equipment to brew 10 gals or more, so next batch I can mash enough to boil 7 or 8 gals and use the extra to experiment. I even have two burners so I can do the boil simultaneously.
I'm brewing tomorrow, but I don't have the herbs I want to use in my next gruit. Maybe I'll get on the web tonight and order some so I'm ready for the next brew day.
Or, if brewing a big beer I can use the second runnings to make the gruit.
Sorry about the double post, I tried to edit and the original post seemed to disappear.
Or, if making a big beer, I could party gyle and use the second runnings for my gruit.
dang.
premington
Well-Known Member
LOL!
That's okay... I gave you Likes on every post--got a kick out of it. We've all been in that position before with double posts. Yeah... Doing an experimental batch and/or using your second runnings (as long as the gravity is acceptable) is a good idea! Order up some herbs and give it a go. But please promise you'll report back here how it went. Post your brewing notes, if you can.
What herbs are you interested in? An herbalist at work passed me a mailing she received with a sale on yarrow... 1 lb. for under $10, which is a good price. The sale may extend beyond yarrow--I'll have to check. Unfortunately I left it at work, and I won't be back until Monday. If you're interested, let me know. I'll pass information on the place for you to check out.
OP
OP
Quick update on my, now months old, first ground ivy beer.
I was not very impressed with it initially, drank it anyway. Ground ivy taste was too strong with some unpleasant part in it... Just not nice. It also went too sour and the malt taste disappeared completely. Drinkable but not enjoyable.
So what did I do, lazy Bastard as I am, I just left two bottles in the fridge for ages, forgot about it, and ran out of beer yesterday,... So what to do? Obviously I cracked one of the ground ivy ones open and.... Oh my goodness.....
It was SOOOOOOOOOOO good!
Not as sour as before, the unpleasant part of the ground ivy taste vanished completely, the nice part stayed, the head retention was improved and even the Pilsener malt taste came back!!!!
Gruit needs time!!!
I was not very impressed with it initially, drank it anyway. Ground ivy taste was too strong with some unpleasant part in it... Just not nice. It also went too sour and the malt taste disappeared completely. Drinkable but not enjoyable.
So what did I do, lazy Bastard as I am, I just left two bottles in the fridge for ages, forgot about it, and ran out of beer yesterday,... So what to do? Obviously I cracked one of the ground ivy ones open and.... Oh my goodness.....
It was SOOOOOOOOOOO good!
Not as sour as before, the unpleasant part of the ground ivy taste vanished completely, the nice part stayed, the head retention was improved and even the Pilsener malt taste came back!!!!
Gruit needs time!!!
premington
Well-Known Member
Oh wow... This is great to read! This certainly isn't the first time I've heard of someone being unhappy with a beer they've made and then later finding it's become something of beauty! Congrats and enjoy what you have left of it.
Yours had the ground ivy change flavor pretty quickly. Kinda' like the yarrow in my gruit. It had that faint pee smell early on, but that changed and went away within a week.
I'll be checking my gruit later this evening and will report back how it's maturing. Three weeks in the bottle, I suspect it's matured a bit since last week. Hoping for more of a head and head retention, but we'll see.
OP
OP
Yepp, I also read a lot of times that we home brewers tend to drink our beer way too quickly. So not know where I read it, but one of those competition medal collector guys, winning Al lot of those just said that he keeps his beer two to four months in primary on the yeast and skips secondary completely (I do that for convenience as well).
He said that beer needs time to develop and yeast needs time to clean up. I know from your Stout that you are aware of that, I did know the theory but the fact that my last Stout did improve so much with time and that my ground ivy sour became almost a complete different beer, really opened my eyes. Now it will be at least two months primary for everything.
He said that beer needs time to develop and yeast needs time to clean up. I know from your Stout that you are aware of that, I did know the theory but the fact that my last Stout did improve so much with time and that my ground ivy sour became almost a complete different beer, really opened my eyes. Now it will be at least two months primary for everything.
OP
OP
Oh and Btw. I did not forget your question regarding the yarrow amount, but everything is still in boxes, have to find my recipes
OK so I brewed Friday night. Started around 8 and finished close to midnight. I brewed a Saison that I put ginger and lemon in the boil and have a tincture ready for the keg. I mashed about 3 gals extra to make a gruit (totally separate boil). I didn't really have the herbs I was looking to use so I used what I had. What I had was a large packet of Heather tops from the LHBS, and I threw in some Graham Marsala, lavender, star anise. I have no idea the amounts used. Next time I brew I hope to have the traditional gruit herbs and will be more scientific about what I am putting in. I hope this is drinkable, but I know I can add/change the final flavor profile prior to bottling. I'm going to let it sit in primary for a good long time. I'll update as I know anything
Has anyone ever used a tincture with wormwood or mugwort post boil to up the bitterness quotient?
Or I suppose you can use a tea, but I like adding the vodka :banana:
Or I suppose you can use a tea, but I like adding the vodka :banana:
premington
Well-Known Member
I haven't used a post-boil tincture, although I'm super curious to hear how it works out for you. If using wormwood, as you've probably read here on this thread, be SUPER careful how much you use. That stuff is powerful!!! I'm not sure how much would work for your tincture, but I used a scant 2 grams in a 6 gallon ferment and it worked out well.
Let us know what you end up doing. I'd love to hear the result!
premington
Well-Known Member
I agree with this... My problem is, I give away so much of what I make, I end up drinking what's left within a few months. I'm starting to hold back on how much I give away. There's definite value in holding onto our brews for a longer stretch to let them age and mature.
A Scotch ale wee heavy is in my fermenter, and I plan to only give away a few six packs and that's it! I'd like to hold on to some of it for at last six months. But, as many of you probably know, sometimes it's hard to accomplish that.
OP
OP
Hold back all of it and start giving away when it is fully matured
OP
OP
Mugwort isn't that bitter, so I would recommend wormwood for your trials. But as already mentioned be very careful as a little already goes a looooooooooong way.
premington
Well-Known Member
I have mugwort in my herb collection and have toyed with using it, but haven't used it yet. What addition amount worked for you? Did you use it in a 1 gallon or 5 gallon fermentation?
OK so I brewed Friday night. Started around 8 and finished close to midnight. I brewed a Saison that I put ginger and lemon in the boil and have a tincture ready for the keg. I mashed about 3 gals extra to make a gruit (totally separate boil). I didn't really have the herbs I was looking to use so I used what I had. What I had was a large packet of Heather tops from the LHBS, and I threw in some Graham Marsala, lavender, star anise. I have no idea the amounts used. Next time I brew I hope to have the traditional gruit herbs and will be more scientific about what I am putting in. I hope this is drinkable, but I know I can add/change the final flavor profile prior to bottling. I'm going to let it sit in primary for a good long time. I'll update as I know anything
So I bottled this gruit over the weekend and this one did turn sour. It is kind of lemony, with an interesting mix of Garam Masala and other subtle flavors. I almost forgot to add the sugar (had to open about six and recap after adding a bottle drop).
I mixed it with some Costo Kolshe to see how that was and it tasted great. I have two son's, one loves sour and he liked it, the other not so much. I'll let this bottle condition for a couple of weeks and give an update. 
OP
OP
Try to let it age for a few months. What i found out about my unintentional sours (all of my gruits ) is that they improve heavily with age. Even if they seem to be not nice at first after conditioning, they usually turn out good to great after a few months in the bottle.
) is that they improve heavily with age. Even if they seem to be not nice at first after conditioning, they usually turn out good to great after a few months in the bottle.Similar threads
