The definitive hefe yeast thread - fermentation profiles and flavor results

[mcbethenstein]

It was a repitch. As I look into it more, my mini ferment test was the only time I've waited to add the acid malt, but it was so the only time I've gotten the wort fully down to at or below my fermentation temp BEFORE pitching. I guess I always think... 67 is close enough to 62, I can pitch as I throw it in the swamp cooler. Might be too much strain on the yeast. I could easily see over oxygenating being a problem, but I was having the same sulphury problems long before I got my oxygen stone. Maybe the sulphury is from the pitching temp and my lack of clove is from my acid malt being in during the ferulic acid rest (my understanding is that the range is very specific with temp and ph... My thermometer was reading low, so i ended up accidentally doing my rest at 114...) AND over oxygenating. The mini ferment test got 30 second blasts of O2... I'll post any replies I get from the yeast guys.

 

[mcbethenstein]

Here is what I got from White Labs. They didn't address my request for a comprehensive chart with flavor profile outcomes with pitch rates, pitch temps, fermentation temps, and oxygenation rates... But then again if I had that this thread wouldn't be here.

" Getting sulfur during fermentation is not uncommon when using the WLP380 Hefeweizen Ale IV yeast. Thankfully sulfur is a very volatile compound and tends to dissipate from the finished product with a little time. Lots of people who get high levels of sulfur report having tasty beer after a couple of months of aging.
On thing that seems to help is adequate oxygenation rates at the beginning of fermentation. Having adequate O2 during the lag phase will result in much less stress on the yeast, which will significantly reduce sulfur production. If your current method of aeration is giving you problems, try going to a sintered stone and a canister of pure O2 (available in most hardware stores). This will help increase the levels of dissolved oxygen available to the yeast. Also, using a yeast nutrient like Servomyces can improve yeast health as well, resulting in better yeast performance and fewer off flavors."

 

[mcbethenstein]

So, I wanted to post while this is still fresh in my head. Neva Parker from White Labs spoke at Northern Brewer in Milwaukee tonight. During the Q&A I asked about reducing sulphur. Her take was that sulphur is created by yeast stress. Stress could be caused by a number of things, (O2 levels, underpitching, etc...) but mostly temperature fluctuations. Even a swing of as little as a degree could be harmful. So my pitching temp and subsequent drop is definitely the suspect for the sulphur. The other thing she said was that sulphur production is more significant with higher temps.... So pitching low temps wouldn't do it, but stress on the yeast would. She did say that if it is present carefully raising the temp to speed up fermentation and co2 output could help scrub it. Jeremy then tried to sell me a nitrogen system, cause nitrogen is apparently really good at scrubbing sulphur.

The other question I asked was how to manipulate hefe yeast for different flavors. The one thing that was intriguing was that she informed us that ester production isn't a result of multiplication, so under-pitching won't directly lead to banana... The ester production is actually a result of the conditions as the yeast start to ferment, lower oxygen levels will increase ester production as will higher temperatures. For clove... She said the level of clove is actually fairly stable from fermentation to fermentation, but that our perception of clove is muted with increasing esters. So to accentuate the clove, you need to suppress the yeast's ester production. Ways to do that are lower fermentation temperature and sufficient oxygen. She recommended going higher than the standard 8-10ppm. So about 90 sec to 2 min pure oxygen. Oxygen is needed for both reproduction and ethanol production (fermentation). So it looks like the "standard advice" that we all see, but not for the reasons you think. Underpitching with adequate oxygen would deplete the o2 levels as they reproduce, and lead to low O2 levels as the yeast switch over to fermenting and that would lead to more esters (banana)... An adequate or over pitch with low O2 would lead to the same thing. Underpitch with low O2 would stress the yeast so much that they might start throwing sulphur, with the esters. An underpitch would need to be over oxygenated to get to a balance, or in the direction of suppressing esters, but again the underpitch would stress the yeast and may lead to sulphur with the clove. To get clove dominant you need an adequate pitch with over oxygenation or over pitch with adequate O2... Independent of temperature.

A fantastic idea for a future experiment would be using the same pitch rate in several brews and alter the fermentation temp... I would guess the best way to do it would be to try to suppress ester production and go for clove... Then try different temps (keeping them super stable to reduce/eliminate sulphur). I can't even begin to guess at what point the temperature becomes the dominate factor in producing esters. With going for clove you would be able to really see differences quicker. If you went for banana I think the results would be a lot muddier. I'm sure that this has been done, but I'd like to see anyway. I know of two brewpubs that are using WLP 300 & 380. And they are fermenting at 68 and 70 degrees respectively. Both examples are heavy on the cloves, so I'm guessing that they are pitching adequate or high and giving sufficient oxygen, again telling me that temperature is a factor, but not the deciding factor.

 

[mcbethenstein]

Update: the sulfur has almost completely left the first brewing with WLP 380. The re-brew is currently at 64-65 degrees. I pitched it at 60 on early Sunday morning. It is throwing a lot of sulfur, but is low on the esters... I'll let it ride until Friday at 64-65 then raise it up to 68 to help push the sulfur out. Hopefully the re-brew will be very similar to the mini-ferment batch. The pitched at 70 brew is all apricot, citrus and a little banana. It's fruity! But is starting to show lots of promise. As long as the pitched at 60 batch comes out, I'll take both kegs to a meeting later this summer for a side by side taste test. Should be interesting!

 

[maida7]

So, I wanted to post while this is still fresh in my head. Neva Parker from White Labs spoke at Northern Brewer in Milwaukee tonight. During the Q&A I asked about reducing sulphur. Her take was that sulphur is created by yeast stress. Stress could be caused by a number of things, (O2 levels, underpitching, etc...) but mostly temperature fluctuations. Even a swing of as little as a degree could be harmful. So my pitching temp and subsequent drop is definitely the suspect for the sulphur. The other thing she said was that sulphur production is more significant with higher temps.... So pitching low temps wouldn't do it, but stress on the yeast would. She did say that if it is present carefully raising the temp to speed up fermentation and co2 output could help scrub it. Jeremy then tried to sell me a nitrogen system, cause nitrogen is apparently really good at scrubbing sulphur.

The other question I asked was how to manipulate hefe yeast for different flavors. The one thing that was intriguing was that she informed us that ester production isn't a result of multiplication, so under-pitching won't directly lead to banana... The ester production is actually a result of the conditions as the yeast start to ferment, lower oxygen levels will increase ester production as will higher temperatures. For clove... She said the level of clove is actually fairly stable from fermentation to fermentation, but that our perception of clove is muted with increasing esters. So to accentuate the clove, you need to suppress the yeast's ester production. Ways to do that are lower fermentation temperature and sufficient oxygen. She recommended going higher than the standard 8-10ppm. So about 90 sec to 2 min pure oxygen. Oxygen is needed for both reproduction and ethanol production (fermentation). So it looks like the "standard advice" that we all see, but not for the reasons you think. Underpitching with adequate oxygen would deplete the o2 levels as they reproduce, and lead to low O2 levels as the yeast switch over to fermenting and that would lead to more esters (banana)... An adequate or over pitch with low O2 would lead to the same thing. Underpitch with low O2 would stress the yeast so much that they might start throwing sulphur, with the esters. An underpitch would need to be over oxygenated to get to a balance, or in the direction of suppressing esters, but again the underpitch would stress the yeast and may lead to sulphur with the clove. To get clove dominant you need an adequate pitch with over oxygenation or over pitch with adequate O2... Independent of temperature.

A fantastic idea for a future experiment would be using the same pitch rate in several brews and alter the fermentation temp... I would guess the best way to do it would be to try to suppress ester production and go for clove... Then try different temps (keeping them super stable to reduce/eliminate sulphur). I can't even begin to guess at what point the temperature becomes the dominate factor in producing esters. With going for clove you would be able to really see differences quicker. If you went for banana I think the results would be a lot muddier. I'm sure that this has been done, but I'd like to see anyway. I know of two brewpubs that are using WLP 300 & 380. And they are fermenting at 68 and 70 degrees respectively. Both examples are heavy on the cloves, so I'm guessing that they are pitching adequate or high and giving sufficient oxygen, again telling me that temperature is a factor, but not the deciding factor.

This is fascinating info. I have been brewing with WLP300 and have had several bad batches in a row. Lots of sulfur and no banana flavor. I've been able to age out the sulfur but I'd really like some banana in my hefe. I'm gonna try a higher temp. My last brew was pitched at 64 and fermented at 68 and still had NO banana. Next batch I will push into the 70's and see what happens.

Also, I think my fermentation fridge is the cause of the sulfur. When the temp controller turns it on to cool the fermenting beer, it blows cold are towards the top of the fermenter. The yeast is all at the top and may end up being cooled at a faster rate then the liquid where the sensor is. According to the white labs folks a drop in yeast temp causes the stress and sulfur. This makes sense. I think my next batch I will ferment outside the fridge and see how that works. My basement is mid 60's so It won't be way out of control.

 

[mcbethenstein]

A swamp cooler... Big Rubbermaid container will keep your brew around the temp of your basement, then use a fish tank heater to bring it up if needed. I got one for $20 that starts at 64 degrees. It's not super accurate, but it's close enough. The water will slow the temp swings from the yeast heating up too quickly, and keep better control than air temps will, since it is more stable.

 

[maida7]

A swamp cooler... Big Rubbermaid container will keep your brew around the temp of your basement, then use a fish tank heater to bring it up if needed. I got one for $20 that starts at 64 degrees. It's not super accurate, but it's close enough. The water will slow the temp swings from the yeast heating up too quickly, and keep better control than air temps will, since it is more stable.

Are you suggesting I use a swamp cooler? I don't think it will work for me. I ferment in 15.5 gallon sanke kegs. That would require a very big cooler. Also lifting them into/out of the cooler is not something I want to do. Lastly, I live in an area with high humidity and I'm constantly fighting dampness in my basement. Don't really like the idea of a big container of water down there.

 

[mcbethenstein]

I was suggesting that, but no worries, since it won't work well. If you are trying to increase your esters, consider that your fermenter shape may be limiting your production. "Brewing with Wheat" goes into it fairly decently. If you can, try an open fermentation. And for the first two days after you see krausen use a sanitized spoon to scrape out the trub bits, and then stir the wort carefully to mix the yeasty krausen back in. Every time I've used this technique I've seen a huge increase in the quantity and quality of the ester profile. Makes it much more complex.

 

[maida7]

I was suggesting that, but no worries, since it won't work well. If you are trying to increase your esters, consider that your fermenter shape may be limiting your production. "Brewing with Wheat" goes into it fairly decently. If you can, try an open fermentation. And for the first two days after you see krausen use a sanitized spoon to scrape out the trub bits, and then stir the wort carefully to mix the yeasty krausen back in. Every time I've used this technique I've seen a huge increase in the quantity and quality of the ester profile. Makes it much more complex.

Not sure that will work either. The opening on my fermenter is only 2" wide. Can't really get a spoon thru that.

Do you really think the fermenter shape is the issue? It's not that much different shape then a carboy. Same basic L x W ratio just scaled up about 2x the size.

I could buy some buckets and see if that makes a big difference. Most of my brews come out pretty clean. Not totally devoid of esters but my Belgians are generally restrained. Not over the top like many homebrew examples are. I just did a blond with WLP500 that came out great but the WLP300 is just not working at all for me. Complete lack of banana and it just tastes wrong that way.

 

[mcbethenstein]

I want to post an update: the re-brew ended up "swampy" as well. I think I have some insight though. I took samples of the last two to NB and now think I actually have 3 different problems going on with this. 1. Sulfur 2. Minerally 3. Grainy. The 3 together give the impression of swampy pond water. Our sulfur is aging out, but a funny pond water flavor is still there. Wait it's 4 things... I think an incorrect ester balance is accentuating the sulfur, and I think that I may need to go back to water chemistry and yeast nutrients. While the pitching temp IS extremely important it is not the cause of my off flavor. The re-brew was vastly different in ester profile, but still the same in the off flavor. Acid malt timing is not a factor in this flavor. Starters made with DME come out well, so I'm thinking my mash is not giving me optimum FAN levels. Whereas the nutrient levels in extract are usually sufficient. Low free amino nitrogen can increase sulfur and ester production.... 2 of my 4 possible factors. I remember adding a bit of DAP to a brew lately with the regular amount of nutrient, but didn't write down which one... So I don't know for sure if it was the mini fermentation test, but I suspect it might have been. Sulfur was minimized on that one, as was esters. The other thing I'm changing with the next batch is on NB's recommendation to use Distilled water with only a tsp of lactic acid. That will eliminate my water as a factor. I have been using RO water with small additions, but it is taken after the softener... And I know that some stuff gets through.... Oh well. Another test. Too many factors.

 

[afr0byte]

I want to post an update: the re-brew ended up "swampy" as well. I think I have some insight though. I took samples of the last two to NB and now think I actually have 3 different problems going on with this. 1. Sulfur 2. Minerally 3. Grainy. The 3 together give the impression of swampy pond water. Our sulfur is aging out, but a funny pond water flavor is still there. Wait it's 4 things... I think an incorrect ester balance is accentuating the sulfur, and I think that I may need to go back to water chemistry and yeast nutrients. While the pitching temp IS extremely important it is not the cause of my off flavor. The re-brew was vastly different in ester profile, but still the same in the off flavor. Acid malt timing is not a factor in this flavor. Starters made with DME come out well, so I'm thinking my mash is not giving me optimum FAN levels. Whereas the nutrient levels in extract are usually sufficient. Low free amino nitrogen can increase sulfur and ester production.... 2 of my 4 possible factors. I remember adding a bit of DAP to a brew lately with the regular amount of nutrient, but didn't write down which one... So I don't know for sure if it was the mini fermentation test, but I suspect it might have been. Sulfur was minimized on that one, as was esters. The other thing I'm changing with the next batch is on NB's recommendation to use Distilled water with only a tsp of lactic acid. That will eliminate my water as a factor. I have been using RO water with small additions, but it is taken after the softener... And I know that some stuff gets through.... Oh well. Another test. Too many factors.

Did they say why they didn't recommend any mineral additions? Having some calcium in the water is useful for supporting both the alpha amylase in the mash and for yeast health.

 

[mcbethenstein]

They said the Distilled water would provide a clean profile to eliminate the minerally profile I am perceiving as swampy. The guy on their help line said that a lactic acid addition would provide all the buffering power needed in the mash for conversion to occur.... At least I hope so. I am adding wyeast nutrient at the end of the boil. I'm going to add an extra pinch of DAP as well. In the name of science I will try not to tweak it too much by adding extra minerals.

Update: 7/4/12 my BIAB 3.5 gal re-brew seems good so far. I got ~ 80% efficiency... So the lactic acid did awesome for me! I did throw in 1 tsp of amylase enzyme... Been doing that recently since all my mashes with wheat were really low eff. Took it up 3-5%.

 

[mcbethenstein]

So instead of trying to think of all the factors that were changed on the bad batches, I tried to think of all the factors that were different on that small batch that came out awesome.... Here is my list. There are a few things on here that are significant enough to look into :

Changes in the mini-ferment batch that wern't in the regular 5 gal batches.
1.) small glass fermenters, partially open.
2.) Brew in a bag, not in my normal mash tun.
3.) added DAP to brew with wyeast nutrient.
4.) pitched at 62, fermented at 61. And temp was super stable.
5.) lagered for 5 days prior to bottling. Meant this to be a cold crash, but there was still krausen on the batches... So it was a short "lagering."
6.) added speciality grains after the acid rest... Did this with a later batch and it is not a factor in my flavor changes.
7.) step mash, (BIAB) no decoctions, infusion with direct heat to compensate for temp variances.

I think 3, 4, & 5 are significant enough to try testing with. My July 3rd re-brew incorporated all these except the speciality malts after the acid rest. I had good airlock activity in my glass Carboy after 11 hours. Pitched at 60. Main fermentation took place at 62-63 degrees. After only 3 days krausen started falling, so I turned up my heater to 68-69 degrees for 1 1/2 days. There is sulfur present, but if I can purge it we will see if the remaining flavor is clean or minerally/swampy. This morning I put the Carboy in my keezer to cold condition for 3 days. Wednesday (7/11) I'll siphon over, force carb, and see if I need to purge the sulfur by hitting the poppet. I need to bottle by Saturday at noon to get it submitted in time for the contest. If this one doesn't come together I'll use the first brew (5/27) as it has a better flavor at this point with a really fruity hefe profile.

 

[daksin]

Hey- just studying for the BJCP and stumbled across something on the BJCP site. Have you looked at DMS being a potential issue? I just clearly remembered "shrimpy pond water" as being a descriptor you used, and I had never heard of DMS causing that flavor, but the description was too close to overlook:

DMS, or dimethyl-sulfide produces the aroma and taste of cooked vegetables, notably corn, celery,
cabbage or parsnips. In extreme cases, it may even be reminiscent of shellfish or water in which
shrimp has been boiled. DMS is normally produced by the heat-induced conversion of S-methylmethionine
(SMM), but most of this evaporates during a long, open, rolling boil. A short, weak or
closed boil, or slow cooling of the wort may therefore lead to abnormally high levels. Some DMS is
also scrubbed out during a vigorous fermentation, which is why lagers and cold-conditioned ales may
have slightly higher levels than warm-fermented ales. Wild yeast or Zymomonas bacteria may produce
high enough levels of DMS to make the beer undrinkable. Pilsner malt contains as much as 8 times the
SMM of pale malt, so Pils-based beers sometimes have a DMS character; this is a much more common
cause in most beer than a covered boil. Low levels of DMS are appropriate in most Pils-based lagers,
particularly American light lagers and Classic American Pilsners, but are not desirable in most ale
styles

 

[mcbethenstein]

I considered this, but I have several other pilsner based beers that are exceptionally clean. I have sent off several of my weizens to competitions... Even if I thought they had the flavor, to try to pin down what it could be, and of the 8+ judging sheets, I have never gotten a DMS suggestion. I don't think that what I'm dealing with is a specific flaw, just a flavor that I'm sensitive to, and am striving to determine the root of. I was boiling inside on an electric stove and when I moved to outside with propane I noticed a better break, but no difference with flavor and DMS.

 

[daksin]

Okay- just thought I'd toss it out there as I had never heard of (or experienced) that side of DMS faults. As for sulfur in beer- I've been doing some meadmaking lately, and degassing the mead is an extremely important aspect of making good mead. I wonder if a degassing step might help to drive off more sulfur than normal fermentation.

In order to degas without aerating the mead, I drop a very powerful stir bar in my primary fermentor and then set the whole thing over my stir plate (which I admit is heftier than most- I work in science). That way I can degas with the lid on. A similar setup may be helpful for beer with sulfur issues. Kind of complicated, but if it gets you the result you're looking for, it may be worth it.

Good luck and cheers!

 

[BeerBaronBob]

So.... Last night I took the weizens to our club meeting. I had 12 people review the beers and got rankings back from 10 of those people. As one would expect, the comments varied. However there was a pretty interesting break down, with reviewers falling into 2 main categories. There was the majority (6 reviewers) that fell into the category that preferred the traditional Hefe flavor profile. The results from this group all ranked WLP 380 as #1, Kellerweis as # 2, WLP 300 as #3 and WLP 351 as #4, one person flipped Kellerweis (#3) and WLP 300 (#2) in rank and another flipped WLP 351 (#3) and WLP 300 (#4). The other category that 4 of my tasters fell into was those preferring the tart-sourness above all other flavor characteristics. In that group WLP 351 reigned supreme. 3 of the 4 placed WLP 351 as their top pick and WLP 380 as their least favorite, and the fourth person chose kellerweis as number 1 and WLP 351 as second. The only universal truth that came out of my 10 ranking tasters was that Kellerweis is awesome and averaged a rank of 2 throughout, and was never awarded a 4. Below are some of the comments that were given about the samples:

WLP 300: All banana odor, Taste slightly sour, tart, low banana taste, almost American wheat-ish

WLP 351: Lower odor, touch of cloves with banana, almost funky, 2 reviewers noted the flavors of sour apples and pears

WLP 380: Great smell, great blend of clove/banana, almost banana bread, Balanced, Really F*ing good, Weiss flavor right on, a reviewer that placed it as 4th thought it was overly fruity

Kellerweis: Low odor but balanced, flavors right on but phenolics at a low level, nice tart flavor, fruity, stone fruit.

After this experiment I find myself torn. I am very pleased with the results from both the WLP 380 and the Kellerweis. I would like to continue the process and experiment with both. Since my next batch is for a competition I won't be experimenting much with that one. I will proceed with the 380 as my yeast, and as one of my reviewers (who is also a nationally ranked Judge) suggested I will bump up my fermentation temps to pitch at 62 and ferment at 64-65. After that I will keep this thread updated with my future experiments. I foresee a side by side comparison of primary fermentation temps and maybe a pitch rate test as well, but those will be down the road. Anyone have any thoughts or questions?

I can say all of the samples you shared that night were great. I really appreciate you taking the time to share this experiment with everyone, especially at the Barons meeting. What it points out to me is that each person has their own idea what the ideal profile is and that varies as I see from your results.

Have you thought about using the 1 gallon glass jugs for testing size? You could use regular airlocks on those with a stopper instead of the open semi fermentation. Or is that the idea for your ideal profile? They are pretty cheap and they would hold about a 2/3 of a gallon as a fermenter.

If you are interested Id be willing to do some more side by side taste tests with my Hefe and Dunkelweisse with the ones you just made after we get the score sheets back.

I checked what I used tonight for my last Weissebiers which you tasted Wed, Wyeast 3068 on the Hefe which is the WP 300 equivalent. I made the Dunkelweisse with the Wyeast 3333 German Wheat which is the WLP380 equivalent. Now I need to try this experiment with the Dunkelweisse. I usually do yeast experiments using larger batch sizes but this sounds like a better way to go except you only have 2/3 gal of the best one. Especially if you want to try several yeast strains or pitch rates or hop balance.

Have you tried comparing the difference with bottle carbing and kegging and bottling carbed?

Great Job and good luck with Germanfest!

 

[mcbethenstein]

I can say all of the samples you shared that night were great. I really appreciate you taking the time to share this experiment with everyone, especially at the Barons meeting. What it points out to me is that each person has their own idea what the ideal profile is and that varies as I see from your results.

Have you thought about using the 1 gallon glass jugs for testing size? You could use regular airlocks on those with a stopper instead of the open semi fermentation. Or is that the idea for your ideal profile? They are pretty cheap and they would hold about a 2/3 of a gallon as a fermenter.

If you are interested Id be willing to do some more side by side taste tests with my Hefe and Dunkelweisse with the ones you just made after we get the score sheets back.

I checked what I used tonight for my last Weissebiers which you tasted Wed, Wyeast 3068 on the Hefe which is the WP 300 equivalent. I made the Dunkelweisse with the Wyeast 3333 German Wheat which is the WLP380 equivalent. Now I need to try this experiment with the Dunkelweisse. I usually do yeast experiments using larger batch sizes but this sounds like a better way to go except you only have 2/3 gal of the best one. Especially if you want to try several yeast strains or pitch rates or hop balance.

Have you tried comparing the difference with bottle carbing and kegging and bottling carbed?

Great Job and good luck with Germanfest!

Thanks bob! I'd really be interested in a side by side taste test. I have one bottle left of the dunkelweizen... But it's getting some age character to it... It's the March batch I brought to the club in April.

That batch... The one I chronicled here, seems to be an anomaly. I can't get the same end result scaling it up... Even though I have made many changes and some have shown in the end result, all my 5 gallon batches seem to taste very similar. I think it might have to do with how shallow the glass jars were... In addition to the other things I have been writing about. My next major steps are to switch malt brands, and mash temps. I was having a discussion with Mino from NB today about pilsner malts and am going to look into it. Also my weiss, while it doesn't seem thin, is very light, and I wonder if I'm not mashing high enough to get the body and malt roundness that the commercial examples all seem to have. Mino thought that the malt character has a lot to do with the flavor perception, thinner body (lower mash temp) seems to accent the tartness, and a bigger body will accent the esters and phenols. Maybe it's as simple as that. With my last test, I switched out the water, and it doesn't seemed to have made much of a difference, if anything it seems more tart. (RO + lactic acid)

 

[mcbethenstein]

As a heads up, I am starting another experiment with a side by side mini mash of the different base malt options for a hefe. I'll start tonight. Here is the thread. Feel free to follow along and comment with your experience or ask questions.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/hefe-base-malt-comparison-345076/

 

[mcbethenstein]

To sum up my other thread... I found that the "German" malts I was using are the cause of my "off" flavor. I'm making a new batch for an event in October and just used new malts. Huge difference already.

 

[progmac]

i'm bumping this thread because it is awesome

 

[Jayjay1976]

i'm bumping this thread because it is awesome

Ditto!

 

[Miraculix]

Sub

 

[Oldskewl]

Why not! I still haven't made a good hefe

 

[mcbethenstein]

Just checking in. It’s been a while since I’ve been on HBT. My joint health has been damaged and brewing has been hard for the last few years. I love to come back to this tread and my other two experiment threads and reread... it makes me want to brew up a Hefeweizen again... I’ll just need to wait until it gets warmer. A stuck sparge in 7° winter weather is not something I want to deal with right now. Thanks for reading.

 

[nrjones89]

More ferulic acid in the mash = more clove. Some sources will say there is more of it in wheat, while others will say there is more in barley. Higher fermentation temps will lead to higher production of esters (banana and other flavors). It's not recommended to go about 68F because of off flavors and fusel alcohols.

My extract recipe for Hefe:
6.6 lbs Briess Bavarian Wheat DME
4 oz Crystal 10L malt
1oz Hallertauer hops @ 60 minutes
3068 Weihenstephan Yeast - create a starter 16 hours before pitching.

Pitch the yeast at 58F and ferment at 66F.

Mine ended up having a strong banana aroma with a moderate clove taste. Some friends commented that it has a bubblegum character to it. I don't pick up on this.