The decline of the LHBS?

[Tidwellc]

In recent years I've noticed a trend with local homebrew shops. I'm curious if this problem is just in my area or widespread. I live in one of the biggest metroplexes in the U.S., and there used to be a ton of shops. But slowly they all seem to be closing or even converting into bars and not selling supplies anymore. The few that are left are extremely out of the way and are without fail out of stock of most of what I need nearly every time I walk in. The only shop that seems to be doing well near me is a good two hour round trip. Is this the result of online retailers? Is this a national trend?

My second questions is this. Where are you guys getting your supplies from? I've considered just switching to online ordering, but there's several issues that keep me away. In a lot of cases you have to buy malt in increments of 1 lb, which sucks. Shipping sometimes takes forever and is unreliable in terms of freshness with things like yeast and hops. I'm curious what most people are doing now.

 

[auburntsts]

I voted "other" simply because I do both: shop at my LHBS and order online.

 

[Tidwellc]

I voted "other" simply because I do both: shop at my LHBS and order online.

Which do you have more luck with? What's your experience with having things like yeast shipped? I live in a warm climate and I worry about it sitting in a hot UPS truck for several days before I get it.

 

[MaxStout]

I live in a large metro, as well, and up until a month ago we had 4 shops: two Northern Brewer, Midwest, and Brew & Grow. Brew & Grow (which was only a few miles from me) closed up, and shortly after that, NB closed its south Minneapolis location. That leaves the other NB in St. Paul, and MW in St. Louis Park, both a 50 mile round trip for me.

I order most of my supplies online, usually from from Morebeer, with free shipping >$59. NB/MW online are getting too high-priced, so I never order from them. I don't mind buying grain in 1lb. increments, as I store leftovers vac-sealed in the freezer. I'll use the them later, and often brew "leftover" beers. I get hops by pound or 1/4 pound from Farmhouse. I don't like getting yeast online, so will make the occasional trek to MW or NB for that.

 

[Hefferweizen]

Mostly online for me. The closest LHBS closed down a few years ago and the remaining one is in the middle of nowhere and higher priced. They do run outdoor brewing events which is a good idea to drive business. Bottom line is I try to dive down the cost of brew batches and rarely have time for a half day trip to the high priced LHBS.

 

[501irishred]

I thoroughly enjoy my trips to my LHBS and hate to think there may come a day that it’s not around. It’s a two hour round trip for me too, and i have but one choice (I’m just glad it’s a good one). In fact, I’d go as far to say I might have given up brewing a few times over the years if it wasn’t for the guys there helping me through some problems with a batch here or there. That, and the fact I know for a fact they will make it right if something goes wrong with a purchase, I will remain a loyal customer until they no longer let me.........

 

[jdauria]

Normally shop at my local, but do shop online also mainly for malts my local does not carry like Mecca Estate Grade or Weyermann Barke malts, or for Imperial Yeast strains my shop does not carry. They basically carry only strains for hoppy beers or sour beers and only occasionally have Darkness or Harvest, two strains I use a lot.

 

[auburntsts]

Which do you have more luck with? What's your experience with having things like yeast shipped? I live in a warm climate and I worry about it sitting in a hot UPS truck for several days before I get it.

I tend to buy grains, hops, and yeast locally, and chemicals & gear online, but I have done it vice versa--it just depends. One exception -- I have yet to buy liquid yeast online. Up to now it's always been dry online and I've reserved liquid yeast for LHBS purchase only, mainly because they have always had what I wanted.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I order almost everything online. I live in a huge metro area(DC) but there are only 2 shops around here. One is far from me and not convenient at all, although I went once and it seemed cool. The one close by I have been to a handful of times and just don't like that much. Pretty small and I get a weird vibe there. I'm sure I will go back at some point for fresh yeast or something but I've been happy with the online retailers, although I've bought the most from MoreBeer

 

[bleme]

I get my grain from the local brewpub and everything else online because the nearest HBS isn't local.
I usually order from Williams because if I order before noon, I've always gotten it the next day.

 

[kh54s10]

I voted other also. I shop both. These days about equally. It may be an area thing. When I started in RI, there were 2 shops in the state, 2011. When I left there were at least 4. And another new one was just over the border in Mass. During that time I visited the area in Florida where I now live and there were 2 shops within a reasonable distance. They are both still there. I am sure that Online shopping hurts LHBSs. Online, from the bigger stores offers a much wider selection than most LHBSs can provide. They sell out of a huge warehouse in comparison to the average LHBS. The average LHBS just doesn't have the capital or space to stock as large a selection.

 

[Hefferweizen]

I'm so happy I read this post! I have been driving down to the LHBS in Wyoming RI all these years. Read your post and thought... 4?? yup there's one a short hop away in Middletown. Woo!! I'll be checking it out this weekend and may have to change my poll entry here. Thank you

 

[Konadog]

I also voted "Other" because I do both. My LHBS is 15 min. away, so I get my grain from them, and if/when I need yeast, I get it there also. Hops I get online, as well as major equipment.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I buy all of my grains, all of my yeast, and most of my hops at LHBS. Mine is about 20 minutes away, but only about 10-15 minute detour on my daily commute home.
Unlike the experiences of some other posters here, mine is exceptionally well stocked. He has probably 60+ different types of grain, most any yeast you'd want, and most hops as well. And he'll gladly order anything he doesn't have in stock, which is rare. We are lucky to have this shop around, so I patronize it as much as possible to help keep the doors open.
The only thing I buy online is hardware, but only if there is something specific that my LHBS can't get or there's just a killer deal. Usually my LHBS will try to match online prices, or come as close as he can within reason.

For all those reasons, I am willing to pay a little more at the LHBS than online just to help support a great store. PLus, I can't tell you how many times I needed to run to the store on brew day or the day before when I realized I was out of something. Totally worth a slightly higher margin.

 

[tegman]

The LHBS near me recently closed and their other location (next closest) is 45 minutes each way. I use Morebeer for bulk grain and liquid yeast. Yakima or hopsdirect for bulk hops. Dry yeast from labelpeelers.

 

[kh54s10]

I'm so happy I read this post! I have been driving down to the LHBS in Wyoming RI all these years. Read your post and thought... 4?? yup there's one a short hop away in Middletown. Woo!! I'll be checking it out this weekend and may have to change my poll entry here. Thank you

Middletown? I lived in Tiverton until just under 2 years ago and there wasn't one in Middletown then. So maybe there are more now......

 

[kh54s10]

I'm so happy I read this post! I have been driving down to the LHBS in Wyoming RI all these years. Read your post and thought... 4?? yup there's one a short hop away in Middletown. Woo!! I'll be checking it out this weekend and may have to change my poll entry here. Thank you

There are actually 5 in the state now and the one you are referring to is in Jamestown not Middletown.

And all of Rhode Island is about the same as a metro area in other states.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/find-a-homebrew-supply-shop/

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I tried to support my LHBS, but they've made it difficult. Here are my issues:

• Poor hours - they're only open 3 days a week for about 4 hours each day. Frequently, I can order on line and get it faster than waiting for the next day they're open and I can get there.
• Stuff not in stock - they almost never have the yeast I want and rarely have the hops I want.
• Expensive - I buy my base grains through the homebrew club's deal with a local brewery for less than half what it costs at the LHBS. Specialty grains, even with shipping, are cheaper and here within 2-3 days.
• Poor quality - I buy my hops from Yakima Valley for three reasons. Cheaper and better selection are two, but the biggest issue is that the LHBS stocks crappy hops. I've never been happy with what I get there.
• Equipment is almost non-existent (except for starter kits) and what they do have is super expensive.

I get my equipment on line from a number of different vendors.
I get my hops, as noted above, from Yakima Valley
I get my grains, yeast and other assorted supplies from Ritebrew.

 

[beernutz]

We have one LBHS in our metro community of about 250k people. It's 25 minutes each way from home but less than 15 minutes from my office. The owner is a friend who also supports all the local homebrewing clubs so I try to buy the vast majority of my perishable supplies from him.

This year I've spent $250 on homebrewing stuff of which $150 was at his shop. Last year the ratio was $1100 to $450 because I bought quite a few things he didn't carry (Tilt, clear draft keg systems, spices, and stuff from brewhardware and NorCal).

He also sells wine kits and equipment which probably are at least half if not more of his revenue.

 

[BrewingAroundtheRrealm]

I was just at my LHBS.The only thing I came back with was a 4 Lb. refill on PBW. The price they charge for a 4 Lb. Refill is equal to the cost ($25) of a new 4 Lb. container at Amazon. I recently stepped in to water chemistry and was looking to pick up Epsom Salt, Chalk and Calcium Chloride. None of which they had in stock.

When I first started brewing, I use to buy all of my grain there. They were very helpful the first few times I went in there showing me how to measure out the grain and use their motorized mill. Once I started to understand what I was looking at grain wise, I started looking at the prices. If I buy all of the grain online I can get what I need for my next few beers at a fraction of the price. The LHBS wants $1.85/Lb. for 2-row. While I can get that for around $1 per pound, or less, online. It's really hard to justify paying almost double the price.

The LHBS recently opened an attached brew pub. When I asked the owner why he said the brew shop doesn't generate enough revenue to cover costs. He can't compete with online prices and there are not enough people coming in the door. I understand that, it's the honest truth.

 

[Oginme]

I guess I am in the lucky category as well. My LHBS is about 40 minutes drive but in a direction that I often travel to do other shopping, their prices are on par with most of the bigger on-line retailers, and they have a great selection. Moreover, if there is something they do not carry, the owner is always willing to order it on their next delivery (grains, yeast, hops, equipment, etc). Having said that, the one area that they are high priced on is hops. The owner has told me several times that he cannot compete with some of the on-line retailers. So hops, since I buy in larger quantities are purchased on-line.

I also have ordered equipment through my LHBS. The price is usually the same as ordering on-line or very close and the shop makes the money instead of the someone I really don't know.

 

[Tidwellc]

Wow, thanks for all the responses everyone! It seems pretty split. I used to have one of those awesome local shops who had everything and were super helpful. In fact, they're the ones who sold me my first kit and gave me so much help and advice along the way. Unfortunately they've converted into a bar and no longer sell any supplies (I'm sure it was more profitable). It seems like some folks are having good luck with some online retailers that I hadn't looked into (NB is just too damn expensive). Thanks for the insights!

 

[Hefferweizen]

Middletown? I lived in Tiverton until just under 2 years ago and there wasn't one in Middletown then. So maybe there are more now......

Sorry Jamestown. It must be fairly new or I've been brewing in a cave for longer than I thought haha, Conanicut Brewing

 

[madscientist451]

I chose on line retailer, but I sometimes go to the LHBS as well.
The LHBS requires adding an hour to my evening commute, sometimes doesn't have what I want and the prices are higher.
I only buy online when their is some kind of sale going on, so I save time and money.
Basically, most small retail shops are doomed, its just going to be harder and harder to keep the doors open unless there is a large amount of brewers in the area.
But small retail is in trouble beyond homebrew shops. Small local music stores are dropping like flies, and most small hardware, auto parts and clothing stores closed a long time ago.

 

[Steveruch]

The two closest shops to me are over 90 minute drives away, in opposite directions. I almost never go close enough on other business to make a side trip to either, so I get everything online.

 

[McHop]

The LHBS never has the one thing I need for brew day, so I try to avoid going since its about an hour round trip. That being said, if I need a normal american ale yeast, I'll pick it up at the LHBS. Any other yeast strain, I'll now call ahead to see if its in stock. I get bulk malt through my club and they have their own grain store for the specialty malts. Hops I'll order online.

 

[odie]

both. but mostly online for convenience. I've long ago acquired most the equipment I will ever need. Or I fabricate/assemble what I want from individual parts sourced from everywhere imaginable.

I buy and stock grain, hops, yeast in bulk. I probably have 500 lbs of assorted base and specialty grain on hand at any given time. My LHBS carries only a few selections of grains. By the sack they often beat online prices on base malts. But don't carry anything beyond the most common movers, which is expected.

The old LHBS in town was a liquor store and the staff didn't know sh*t about brewing. I only went there in an emergency (need an ingredient NOW)…

The new one is a real home brew guy...and closer!

But the sad reality is Sears, then Kmart, then Walmart...now Amazon and ebay are killing small businesses. people are willing to spend a little extra to buy local/mom-n-pop....like 10% to maybe 25% max...but not 50% or more....and as the price goes up, the extra % willing to spend goes down...

 

[lump42]

I'd say other, since I purchase some things online when I see a deal I can't pass up, but also my LHBS is easier to deal with if I place the order online and then go pick up. They were an online only store with a drop off point at a local brewer until this past spring when they opened a physical storefront. They are still figuring out inventory management between the two with the system they are already using. They are 40 min away, but I either time purchase to a business trip in the big city or have my wife pick up the order on the way home from work.

Edit: Bonus is that they are the only AHA member store in the state.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

It sounds like there are lot of hobbyists running LHBSs and doing it poorly rather than a real. professional retail store dedicated to being a one-stop-shop. Shame. I am fortunate enough to have the latter near me.

 

[bracconiere]

I order hops from YVH, and usually buy my barley from the local feed store....so other for me....(i have been buying malt again recently though from morebeer...and apple juice from the local grocery)

 

[MaxStout]

Local brew stores get caught in a paradox. They need to stock a large inventory of goods that include a lot of perishables, so in order to make a decent profit they need higher margins--charge more. But then the goods become priced out of the market when compared to online, especially when the online vendor offers free or low-cost shipping.

 

[lump42]

Local brew stores get caught in a paradox. They need to stock a large inventory of goods that include a lot of perishables, so in order to make a decent profit they need higher margins--charge more. But then the goods become priced out of the market when compared to online, especially when the online vendor offers free or low-cost shipping.

This is why my LHBS started as a online store first until they had enough local drop off orders to justify a store front.

 

[odie]

properly stored grain will last years before any noticeable decline. Hops and yeast stored cold has a "reasonable" shelf life as well. If yeast or hops is sitting around long enough to be an issue, you either have no market in your area or you are stocking too much of the obscure stuff...carry a little of everything, but a lot of certain things...

 

[grampamark]

I buy both locally and online.

I’m semi-retired and we divide our time between a farm which is well and truly in the middle of nowhere (and is where I do most of my brewing), and a house in the largest city in the state (and 3 of the 4 adjacent states, as well). It’s 250 miles from the farm to the city.

In the city there is one dedicated HBS and an Ace Hardware which added a homebrewing section a couple of years ago. The LHBS is 20 minutes from my house; Ace is 5, 10 if I hit most of the red lights.

Since I started brewing, 8 years ago, I have purchased most of my ingredients and supplies from the LHBS and taking them to the farm. The store has been in business for about 25 years, is owned by a father and son, and is well-stocked with fresh ingredients (they supply several of the 8 local breweries which helps with turning over inventory quickly). The owners are knowledgeable and helpful and, quite honestly, a couple of fun guys just hang out and visit with. I’ve bought most of my equipment online, mostly from AIH and Kegconnection.

In the past year I’ve started buying more ingredients online simply because of price. The LHBS is charging $1.75-1.95/lb for base malts, $3+ for most specialty grains. Even buying base malts by the bag would cost about $15 more for 50lbs than buying 5 10lb bags from Morebeer with free shipping. Hops are $2-3/oz. The HB section of the hardware store doesn’t have the variety of ingredients that the dedicated store has and the prices aren’t any lower. I’d like to patronize the local guys more, especially the LHBS, but at some point one has to decide what fits the budget the best. I’ve been brewing a lot more since I started buying in bulk and spending about the same amount as I spent last year when I brewed fewer batches.

I’ve heard through the grapevine that the LHBS guys might be pulling the pin on maintaining a storefront and just warehouse customer orders for pickup. The time suck of having someone sit in the store all day to serve a handful of walk-ins is no longer worth it when the bulk orders are paying the bills. I’ll be in town in a couple of days; I’ll stop in and visit (and buy something).

 

[jcav]

I have one LHBS that is an hour and a half round trip for me. Most of the time I order from MoreBeer with free shipping on orders over $59 dollars and they ship very quickly (most of the time within 3 days). I brew once a month (but many months twice a month) so I am always ordering from them or a few other online companies. If a LHBS opened closer to me I would definitely shop there.

John

 

[dwhite60]

I find that if I buy bigger quantities from my LHBS the price is lower. Half sacks of 2 row for $25. Fulls sacks even less. This compares with online retailers.

I think a lot of people go into business thinking they are going to get rich. You don't unless you put every bit of your heart and soul into it and then you still may not. People tend to be willing to pay higher prices for service.

I think there's a lot of things LHBS's could do to make themselves more viable.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[day_trippr]

The LHBS paradigm has been on a steep decline and many stores have closed over the last few years, or will in the next. I'm not sure what the demographic reasons may be but I suspect Boomers aging out is a significant contributor. I don't think the internet has much to do with it...

Cheers!

[edit] I'll add I have yet to ever order any portion of a batch from an on-line retailer over the last ~15 years, mostly because I live 15 minutes from what used to be the largest LHBS in New England and they were always well stocked. Unfortunately the reality of the LHBS decline has prompted the owner to steer largely towards a brew pub over the last year+ and has pretty nearly left the ingredients thing barely hanging in.

I have a couple of alternative stores within 30 minutes of home, and indeed resorted to driving into Cambridge today to pick up a 32 ounce bottle of 5 Star LLC, rather than go the Amazon route, as that store may soon become my primary LHBS...

 

[Cavpilot2000]

[edit] I'll add I have yet to ever order any portion of a batch from an on-line retailer over the last ~15 years, mostly because I live 15 minutes from what used to be the largest LHBS in New England and they were always well stocked. Unfortunately the reality of the LHBS decline has prompted the owner to steer largely towards a brew pub over the last year+ and has pretty nearly left the ingredients thing barely hanging in.

I have a couple of alternative stores within 30 minutes of home, and indeed resorted to driving into Cambridge today to pick up a 32 ounce bottle of 5 Star LLC, rather than go the Amazon route, as that store may soon become my primary LHBS...

The awesome and well-stocked on e I referred to above is in Weymouth. I know it's further from you, but if you are in the SOuth Shore area, the Emporium is worth going to. They are affiliated with the one in Cambridge, but I feel better stocked. But I have shopped at both.

 

[seatazzz]

I only buy hops and random equipment online; grain & yeast I get at the LHBS. There are two in my area, both are 28+ miles from my house (of course in opposite directions) but worth it. Both are well stocked, with super helpful friendly staff, and both are willing to order anything I might need that they don't have. Since I have my own mill, and re-use yeast, I only have to stop in maybe once every other month unless I need something RIGHT NOW that I ran out of. But each visit is a major social event, I make sure I have time for a nice chat and perhaps taste something they've brewed up. Each shop has its pros; one is mainly for bulk malt, the other for equipment and some adjunct malt that the other shop doesn't carry. I can always adjust my recipes to fit what they have too.

 

[kh54s10]

One highly respected LHBS lost my business because, at least twice, I went during their normal hours that consist of only a few hours, 4 or 5 days a week and they were not open. A pretty far distance to find out I can't get what I wanted. I guess it is really a side business.

Fortunately one opened really close by with as good or better selection and open like a regular store. I really liked that one. Unfortunately I have move since.

Here the close one is more of a wine store and the farther one is the better of the two. But they have pretty normal hours.....