Technique for High ABV beers

[joeirvine]

Okay, I've been looking into using champagne yeast for a very high alcohol beer. I'm just a little curious about the techniques. My plan was to use a recipe I already have before... Not sure which one yet. But to up the fermentables to bring the OG over 1.100. Then to hit it with an ale yeast for flavor and later with a champagne once the ale yeast dies from the high alcohol content. Is that the right process and in getting a high enough OG I would think I could also kill off the champagne yeast with the alcohol before it dries it out too much? It is my understanding that the champagne yeast can handle higher alcohol but will die out mid teens.

Two part question I guess, anyone use beercalculus.hopville.com? If so how realiable is it? I seem to find it off.

Just a thought. I'm not looking for the greatest high alcohol beer I've ever had here just want to expiriment and see what is possible. Also to feed a couple to my buddy and call him Tommy Two Beers for the rest of the night.

 

[PseudoChef]

I wouldn't use champagne yeast in a beer. There's really no need, especially at 1.100. Large enough yeast pitch, plenty of oxygenation, and possibly simple sugar additions will work just fine for high alcohol beers. If you really need to push your gravity over 15%, use a large, active pitch of WLP099 when initial fermentation dies down.

 

[joeirvine]

I looked at the WLP 099 and it claims the higher OG you have the more like wine it is going to taste. When reading into Lalvin, the claim was it is clean and dry so it shouldn't have a negative effect on flavor.

 

[JLW]

I've a made a couple of 12% and 13% abv beers. One was a IIPA and came in at 13.1% I used WLP001 and it attenuated all the way the down to FG. I think there were two things that made it succesful:

1. Pitched a 3L starter
2. Let the beer sit in primary for 5 weeks.

Curious what style of beer are considering?

 

[joeirvine]

Haha, actually I was leaning towards an Irish Red. The yeast flavor isn't extremely important in it and with the roasted barley and caramel I thought it would have a nice malty sweetness still reguardless of the champagne yeast.

 

[seabass07]

Any reason not to just pitch a healthy amount of WLP009 or wYeast 3787 from the beginning?

 

[joeirvine]

Only reason really is that it seems with the champagne yeast I can control the yeast flavor more and not have to do late addition addings. I was at the WL website and it said something about how the higher the original OG the more likely to have a wine taste. I was going try and figure out how high of an OG I would need to let the ale yeast ferment out and the champagne yeast ferment out with out leaving it dry and I haven't found any info leading me to believe the champagne yeast will give it a wine flavor. Especially the Lalvin strand I was looking at.

 

[JLW]

I think if you make a healthy starter, areate well and let it sit in primary for awhile you should be fine.

Here is the calculator I use for all my starters.

http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php

The calculator is located under Yeast Tools.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Chances are, though, if your process is spot on for the rest of fermentation, when you pitch a wine yeast, it will do pretty much nothing. I'd stick with ale yeasts, as other have suggested.

 

[headbanger]

Seems logical that a champagne yeast would contribute more of a wine flavor than an ale yeast would but there's really only one good way to find out...

Why not brew two batches and try it both ways?

 

[dcp27]

champagne yeast won't be very useful. champagne and wine yeasts can only eat simple sugars and not the more complex sugars that ale yeasts can. people use champagne yeast in high abv brews to guarantee carbonation, not finish the beer.

theres no need for it anyway, nearly every yeast strain should be able to finish a 1.1 beer if you treat it right (pitch enough, aerate enough, control temps)

 

[petep1980]

My high ABV beers always SUCK fwiw.

 

[remilard]

I haven't found any info leading me to believe the champagne yeast will give it a wine flavor.

Drink a bottle of champagne.

Why not just use 1056/001? Plenty of 1.100 beers are made with that yeast.

 

[dantheman13]

My high ABV beers always SUCK fwiw.

Any ideas why? Also, how high is "high" for you?

 

[petep1980]

Any ideas why? Also, how high is "high" for you?

Lack of practice. I made most of them when I was new to brewing.

High for me is 1.070+

 

[JLW]

Another option is to make an Eisbock out of your beer.

 

[JasonInBTR]

Try 1764. 12% tolerant, flocs great and has a good temp range.

Jason

 

[ForumMember]

As everyone suggests, a good starter is the key to getting high gravity wort attenuated. I got 1056 to plow through an OG of 1.120 with a 5 liter starter. I did run into problems bottle carbing, however. After months of patience, bottle inversion, higher temps, the beer still failed to carb. As a last resort i popped the bottles, poured into bottling bucket, added champagne yeast and rebottled. In ten days it was ready to drink.

As long as I stick with bottling, I think i will routinely add champagne yeast at an ABV of 8 percent and higher.