Tasting help

[panicbuttonguy]

I have been tasting IPA's and trying to create a recipe that I like.

In our last blind tasting we we had Brooklyn Brewery's IPA and Odell's IPA. Comparing and contrasting the 2 I have some questions about IBU's that I can't seem to answer. Odell's IPA clocks in around 60 IBUS and BB's around 43. I wrote that the BB IPA was spot on for bitterness and that the Odell was lite on bitterness.

Is it that higher IBU's doesn't always mean more bitterness? I know a lot depends on the malt used, but is that all it is or does mash temp come into play here too? What other factors can come into play when trying to get desired bitterness. I always thought the higher the IBU's the higher the bitterness. I guess that's not the case every time. Can anyone help shed some light on this for me? Thanks.

 

[unionrdr]

IPA's do have decent bittering,but that comes from early hop additions,partly. Most of the hop additions are flavor & aroma,or late additions.

 

[panicbuttonguy]

Right. I know that using different hops with different AA%'s early in the boil will give you more or less bitterness and later additions with determine the aroma. I guess my question is weather or not higher IBU's ALWAYS = a more bitter taste.

 

[unionrdr]

Short answer no. IBU's aren't just measuring bittering at the beginning of the boil.

 

[TopherM]

Perceived bitterness would be all about the balance, not particularly the IBUs. Each style has a IBU to malt body ratio for that style that is a proven balance to that style of beer where the perceived bitterness is balanced by the body of the beer.

Basically, a light lager with 40 IBUs would have a TON more perceived bitterness than a porter with 60 IBUs.

So, it all depends on the style. To compare bitterness apples to apples for different styles, you really need to consider the style guidelines as the starting point, then compare how much higher the IBUs are from that starting point. To just compare IBUs for differing styles wouldn't tell you anything about how bitter they taste in comparision to one another.

Make sense?

 

[panicbuttonguy]

Right. So for these 2 beers Brooklyn's is 47 IBUs and Odell's is 60 IBUs both being IPA's with 7% ABV. Is it really going to be the grain bill that is going to be the difference? The amount of grain used is probably close to being the same. Am I right in thinking it is just the different types of grain used that is going to determine perceived bitterness. Maybe Brooklyn uses grain that lets the bitterness come through and Odell uses grain that stops so much bitterness from coming though? If that is the case, when I'm developing recipes, how do I know what grains will mask the bitterness and which grains with let more bitterness though?

Are there any other things that will determine bitterness (besides ABV/amount of grain used) such as mash temps or is it AA's and grain bill only? I also recognize that different hops will give you different bitterness even if they are the same AA%.

 

[unionrdr]

The AA% does have a lot to do with how much bittering you'll get,aside from time in the boil. You get the most bittering at 1 hour,but still get some bittering from flavor additions if you start them at 30 minutes or more.
The type of malts used can alter percieved bitterness,deepending on the strength of their flavor,& whether they are sweet or a bit bitter themselves.

 

[panicbuttonguy]

So will sweet malts like crystal/caramel tend to mask bitterness or bring it though more? What about the specialty and color malts like victory or vienna? Does anyone have good resources that I could go to for this type of information. I've been researching malts all morning and I'm not finding a whole lot of info about a particular malts affect on bitterness.

 

[unionrdr]

Sweeter malts will mask them a bit. Bitter or drier malts will accent them more. And there is noe resource for every possible malt,hop,etc combo on the net. This gets asked once in a while. There may be some info about this out there,but in a more piecemeal sort of way. It's kinda like leaning to shoot with the old manual 35mm film cameras. You learned it by doing it.

 

[panicbuttonguy]

I talked with some other brewers and they helped me out with understanding what affect mash temp, water profiles and yeast attenuation has on perceived bitterness. I think I'm all set now. Thanks.