Taste differences between priming sugar and CO2 pressured kegs

[harrie M]

Hello all,

Has someone done some test between the taste of beer bottled with priming sugar and CO2 carbonarted kegs and then counterfilling in bottles. Does it make a difference? The priming sugar will add some additional yeast, but other then that does it change the flavour? Has someone researched it?

 

[VikeMan]

The priming sugar will add some additional yeast,

It won't really add much additional yeast. There are just not enough fermentable carbs to push the yeast into exponential growth at that point. But it will add alcohol. Priming with enough sugar to get a total of 2.5 volumes of CO2 will increase ABV by about 0.25% (give or take, depending on how much water is used to make the sugar solution).

 

[AlexKay]

Hello all,

Has someone done some test between the taste of beer bottled with priming sugar and CO2 carbonarted kegs and then counterfilling in bottles. Does it make a difference? The priming sugar will add some additional yeast, but other then that does it change the flavour? Has someone researched it?

CO2 is CO2; there’s nothing different about the bubbles created by force carbonation from those produced “naturally.” But there are enough process differences between keg (followed by counterpressure bottling) and bottle conditioning that it’s not crazy to believe there could be a difference in the beer.

Probably the biggest effect is keeping the yeast active and munching on things for a longer period of time. Yeast metabolism involves a lot of different chemical reactions, so if you give it some extra time metabolizing, there’s at least the possibility of an effect on flavor.

Then there are differences in when and how the beer is exposed to oxygen, and what temperature it’s stored at, especially after oxygen exposure.

 

[AlexKay]

With a little help from Google:
Bottle Conditioning: Technology and Mechanisms Applied in Refermented Beers

 

[NSMikeD]

Then of course there is the temptation to rush forced carbonation because we (me) can't wait and let the beer condition. Case in point, I kegged an Irish red ale over the weekend and following Brewfather I am supposed to wait a week under its current temp and psi to reach proper carbonation, but I've already poured 2 pints of semi-carbed beer. Good luck keeping this beer until March 17th for me to fill a growler to bring to a friend's dinner. And let's just concede the Negra Modelo clone lager I have in the fermentor stands no chance of a proper months long lagering.

 

[SacSudz]

New brewer here learning as I go. Timely topic as I've been wondering about this myself. Do I need to add sugar if I'm putting the wart into a Corny Keg with CO2 at say 30 psi? I don't mind waiting an additional 2-weeks after that for conditioning.

 

[VikeMan]

Do I need to add sugar if I'm putting the wart into a Corny Keg with CO2 at say 30 psi? I don't mind waiting an additional 2-weeks after that for conditioning.

At what temperature will you be fermenting? And what CO2 level (i.e. "Volumes" of CO2) do you want?

 

[harrie M]

With a little help from Google:
Bottle Conditioning: Technology and Mechanisms Applied in Refermented Beers

That is a deep study. That will take a while. Thank you.

 

[NSMikeD]

New brewer here learning as I go. Timely topic as I've been wondering about this myself. Do I need to add sugar if I'm putting the wart into a Corny Keg with CO2 at say 30 psi? I don't mind waiting an additional 2-weeks after that for conditioning.

beer will condition even if forced carbed. The residual activity of years once fermentation is done will clean up the beer but the rate will depend on temperature. Example, lagers condition for months under cool temps. For those who naturally carb and keg, you do it the way you would to bottle, ie using calculators to determine how much sugar is needed to yield the proper level of carbonation and then when you are ready to serve you put it on CO2 to maintain serving pressure. On a side note, when I used to naturally carb, I would use CO2 to purge the O2 out of the top of the kegs and that would theoretically affect the final pressure - but that would even out once I tapped it.


as for how much psi use one of the charts/calculators. But sounds like more information to consider - at 30psi are you talking about a one time charge or constant pressure. Carbing a keg under constant regulated pressure under serving tamps would be in the neighborhood closer to 10 psi. Single high psi then taking it off to force carb is a tricky thing

one more point, after to ferment its now beer (albeit flat) and no longer wort. I assume you meant after initial fermentation.

 

[LostHopper]

I think some significant changes occur in beer "taste" when it is allowed to mature, not age. I've heard the term Green Beer and I agee. As homebrewers we are so anxious to drink our creations that we may not drink it at it's best whether that is due to carbonation or malt/yeast/hops flavors that have not settled in.

 

[Yesfan]

New brewer here learning as I go. Timely topic as I've been wondering about this myself. Do I need to add sugar if I'm putting the wart into a Corny Keg with CO2 at say 30 psi? I don't mind waiting an additional 2-weeks after that for conditioning.

If you're willing to wait, I'd just hook the gas up at serving pressure (aka "set & forget") and let it ride for a week or two. The last time I added priming sugar was when I was still bottling.

So short answer? No sugar needed.

 

[NSMikeD]

If you're willing to wait, I'd just hook the gas up at serving pressure (aka "set & forget") and let it ride for a week or two. The last time I added priming sugar was when I was still bottling.

So short answer? No sugar needed.

priming is an option when you only have the ability to hook up just one keg to CO2. But otherwise I agree it's not needed and I don't believe it affects the taste aside for a small amount of O2 that might be in the headspace

 

[NSMikeD]

I think some significant changes occur in beer "taste" when it is allowed to mature, not age. I've heard the term Green Beer and I agee. As homebrewers we are so anxious to drink our creations that we may not drink it at it's best whether that is due to carbonation or malt/yeast/hops flavors that have not settled in.

out of curiosity, what do you consider the difference between maturing and aging? How about conditioning?

 

[Geezer-Glide]

I like to keg condition. I put a little more sterile sugar/water in my purged keg than I really need then pressure transfer my beer to that keg and set carbonation levels with a spunding valve. The outlet of the valve purges the “next-up” sterilized keg and the music plays on and the residual yeast cleans up any O2 and polishes the brew (to my taste). I have reduced my CO2 use significantly and I’m not in a hurry. I have enough kegs to wait a week or so, sometimes my “early sampling” lets me use a 2.5 gallon keg for what was a 5 gallon batch. I hate it when I do that, I know it’s only going to get better but sometimes it’s so good NOW!

 

[LostHopper]

out of curiosity, what do you consider the difference between maturing and aging? How about conditioning?

I don't have the refined taster's vocabulary but I know it when I taste it.

I consider conditioning to be synonymous with carbonating in a bottle with priming sugar. The time it takes for that natural carbonation to occur lets the beer flavors settle in (mature maybe?).
In a keg we can speed up that carbonation process dramatically and there is less time for "maturing". This is why I'm more of a "set and forget" when keg carbonating.

I've always found patience to be a virtue in brewing and I've never been a grain to glass racer.

I also think the beer style is an important consideration. I like my lagers and stout/porters after a longer wait (maybe that's aging) while I like my IPA's much sooner.

I like to keg condition. I put a little more sterile sugar/water in my purged keg than I really need then pressure transfer my beer to that keg and set carbonation levels with a spunding valve. The outlet of the valve purges the “next-up” sterilized keg and the music plays on and the residual yeast cleans up any O2 and polishes the brew (to my taste). I have reduced my CO2 use significantly and I’m not in a hurry. I have enough kegs to wait a week or so, sometimes my “early sampling” lets me use a 2.5 gallon keg for what was a 5 gallon batch. I hate it when I do that, I know it’s only going to get better but sometimes it’s so good NOW!

I'm really interested in Geezer's method but I'm having some difficulty seeing how to add the sugar water to the purged keg when pressure transferring.

 

[Geezer-Glide]

I don't have the refined taster's vocabulary but I know it when I taste it.

I consider conditioning to be synonymous with carbonating in a bottle with priming sugar. The time it takes for that natural carbonation to occur lets the beer flavors settle in (mature maybe?).
In a keg we can speed up that carbonation process dramatically and there is less time for "maturing". This is why I'm more of a "set and forget" when keg carbonating.

I've always found patience to be a virtue in brewing and I've never been a grain to glass racer.

I also think the beer style is an important consideration. I like my lagers and stout/porters after a longer wait (maybe that's aging) while I like my IPA's much sooner.


I'm really interested in Geezer's method but I'm having some difficulty seeing how to add the sugar water to the purged keg when pressure transferring.

 

[Geezer-Glide]

I use one of my 1 gallon growlers. I sanitize it and pour my hot sugar/water/DME/whatever into it then purge the O2 in the growler with CO2. Then I hook growler output to (previously purged) corny output. Hit the grower with CO2 from the tank when you hear CO2 bubbling into the corny as our British friends say “Bill’s your uncle”. Sounds more complicated than it is.