Switching to eBIAB

[doug293cz]

Well, I messed this up somewhere, as soon as I switch the panel on all the 110 outlets are hot on both sides and the main contactor isn't turning on. I can't find any strange continuities between the plugs and the inlet so I don't think there's a short anywhere. I feel so defeated.

How about some overview and detail pics of the inside of your enclosure from multiple angles. Good focus is important.

Brew on

 

[jjkeegan86]

How about some overview and detail pics of the inside of your enclosure from multiple angles. Good focus is important.

Brew on

Alright, it's kind of a mess but here it is.

 

[jjkeegan86]

This is mostly my wiring diagram , made a few changes like a another regular outlet

 

[jjkeegan86]

Oh and ignore the whole pump ssr relay part that's different now

 

[jjkeegan86]

Guess I'll start ripping this thing apart. Does the contractor coil wiring make a difference if the hot goes to a1 or a2? This is how I have it now

 

[jjkeegan86]

Sorry forgot the attachment

 

[jjkeegan86]

Well I tried switching these, no dice

 

[BeardedBrews]

Can you describe the contactor problem a bit more? You say it doesn't turn on, but that the panel outlets are hot. Does that mean that the main contactor is allowing power through (stuck closed)?

Trouble shooting from this point is going to involve a multimeter and checking the connections along the wiring path.

 

[jjkeegan86]

Yeah maybe that's the case with the contactor, but Im not sure of there's anything getting across it, but I still wouldn't expect the pump outlets to have power until I actually turn the switch on. The contactor should make a sound when it turns on right?

 

[BeardedBrews]

Sorry forgot the attachment View attachment 618891

Most will click, yeah.

To trouble shot that contactor plug in the controller, switch the main switch off, and grab your multimeter. Set it to volts and check these:

2 and 4 - 220v
A1 and A2 - 0v
1 and 3 - 0v

Then turn on the switch:

2 and 4 - 220v
A1 and A2 - 110v
1 and 3 - 220v

 

[jjkeegan86]

Most will click, yeah.

To trouble shot that contactor plug in the controller, switch the main switch off, and grab your multimeter. Set it to volts and check these:

2 and 4 - 220v
A1 and A2 - 0v
1 and 3 - 0v

Then turn on the switch:

2 and 4 - 220v
A1 and A2 - 110v
1 and 3 - 220v

Alright, when it's off there is 250 at 2 and 4 nothing at 1 and 3, turning it on makes no change

 

[BeardedBrews]

Alright, when it's off there is 250 at 2 and 4 nothing at 1 and 3, turning it on makes no change

Is there anything at a1 and a2 when the switch is on?

 

[jjkeegan86]

Is there anything at a1 and a2 when the switch is on?

Nothing at a1 and a2 either, is there a way to test that voltage is coming through the switch?

 

[jjkeegan86]

There is continuity in the switch when I turn it on vs having it off

 

[jjkeegan86]

And continuity between a1 and the power inlet, and a2 and the neutral inlet

 

[jjkeegan86]

Rewired the switch to try and power just once off the outlets and a lamp, and nothing

 

[BeardedBrews]

There are jumpers on the switches that aren't called out on the wiring diagram you posted so I'm going to be a little limited in the help I can give.

Going back to the beginning you mentioned that the pump outlets have power, but it sounds like the main relay has no power at 1 and 3. This would mean that somewhere between the power input in the enclosure and that main relay you've got power branching off into the rest of your stuff. This isn't good.

The only thing attached to power before that main relay should be the loop that goes to the main power switch, and you shouldn't share that loop with any of the other switches.

 

[jjkeegan86]

I'm now doubting those outlets were powered, but my little current tester was saying there was current, Ive disconnected everything, and just testing the voltage through the estop to the neutral terminal blocks im getting 12 volts. Which seems really weird

 

[jjkeegan86]

And going from 2 or 4 to the neutral on a2 is also just reading 10-12 volts

 

[jjkeegan86]

Alright so im thinking there's an issue with my spa panel, and or outlet, only getting 12 volts between the neutral and the hot wires

 

[jjkeegan86]

Alright so figured out that we get 120 between the hot and neutral, at the plug, when no load is on it, once a load is applied the voltage drops and doesn't actually power anything.

Good news, probably nothing wrong with the control panel I built, bad news, we have no idea why it's happening.

Any ideas?

 

[jjkeegan86]

Alright it was a loose neutral in the panel, everything is lit up! So exciting

 

[doug293cz]

Alright it was a loose neutral in the panel, everything is lit up! So exciting

Glad you figured it out.

Brew on

 

[jjkeegan86]

I got a 240 volt indicator for three element, it's connected to each line to the outlet, so it's on but then on brighter when the element is switched on, can I just get a 120v led and hook it up top the hot that is switched by the ssr? If like the element light to only be on when the ssr is switched

 

[doug293cz]

I got a 240 volt indicator for three element, it's connected to each line to the outlet, so it's on but then on brighter when the element is switched on, can I just get a 120v led and hook it up top the hot that is switched by the ssr? If like the element light to only be on when the ssr is switched

Short answer: no.

Long answer: If you connect a 120V LED from the load wire (switched) from the SSR, when the SSR is off, then the LED will be in series with the 10.5 ohm element, connected between the unswitched hot wire (black) and neutral. Thus the LED will have almost 120V across it and light up at close to max brightness whether the SSR is firing or not. Read this post about how SSR's function to get a better understanding of what is going on.

If you test the system with the element disconnected, the "Element Firing" LED will light up dimly when the "Element Enable" contactor is activated, and the SSR is not being triggered on. This is due to leakage thru the SSR. When the SSR is being triggered, the LED will light up fully. This "lit when off" behavior will not occur when the element is connected. Again the post linked in the previous paragraph will help understand this situation (once you understand that post.)

Brew on

 

[jjkeegan86]

Short answer: no.

Long answer: If you connect a 120V LED from the load wire (switched) from the SSR, when the SSR is off, then the LED will be in series with the 10.5 ohm element, connected between the unswitched hot wire (black) and neutral. Thus the LED will have almost 120V across it and light up at close to max brightness whether the SSR is firing or not. Read this post about how SSR's function to get a better understanding of what is going on.

If you test the system with the element disconnected, the "Element Firing" LED will light up dimly when the "Element Enable" contactor is activated, and the SSR is not being triggered on. This is due to leakage thru the SSR. When the SSR is being triggered, the LED will light up fully. This "lit when off" behavior will not occur when the element is connected. Again the post linked in the previous paragraph will help understand this situation (once you understand that post.)

Brew on

Ah alright, thanks for the info, I'll hopefully get the kettle put together soon and test it all out

 

[jjkeegan86]

Things ate getting exciting!

Alright so getting the kettle together, I've got the ball valves on with the cam locks, but the side pickup tube and the spin cycle have me worried, is it okay for this much threading to be exposed on the pick up, and should I take the exposed teflon off?

And is the gap with the spin cycle okay? I can try to do one more full rotation but it stops around 1/2 turn. Or do I need something like this https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/nptext12.htm

 

[BeardedBrews]

Since those ports are welded you don't actually need the tape on the inside to keep it from leaking. My advice would be to leave it off entirely and take the fittings off to rinse everything out between batches. Just thread them in enough to stay put, don't over tighten.

I skipped taking the stuff off for about a year and did a recirculation with pbw instead. When I finally did take them apart I found some pretty gross funk inside. Now I pull everything off every couple brews just to hit them with a little cleaner and a scrub. New Teflon tape is a pretty cheap insurance against a skunky batch.

 

[jjkeegan86]

Since those ports are welded you don't actually need the tape on the inside to keep it from leaking. My advice would be to leave it off entirely and take the fittings off to rinse everything out between batches. Just thread them in enough to stay put, don't over tighten.

I skipped taking the stuff off for about a year and did a recirculation with pbw instead. When I finally did take them apart I found some pretty gross funk inside. Now I pull everything off every couple brews just to hit them with a little cleaner and a scrub. New Teflon tape is a pretty cheap insurance against a skunky batch.

Is there any worry on getting things disassembled without the pipe tape on there?

 

[jjkeegan86]

Alright, got a new mount to bring it the panel up a little higher. Water test went fine, just a little leak on a pump fitting.

Got 6 gallons of water from 60 to 160 in about 15 minutes. Also need to wire up the volt meter, misread auber's description saying it doesn't need a power supply.

Thinking I might want to put a shroud over the pump, any thoughts?

Electric brewing is going to be fun!

 

[BeardedBrews]

As long as you don't tighten them super tight they won't stick together, even without the tape.

I'd say yes for sure on the pump shroud, I lost a chugger pump motor to gradual drops and drips until eventually it wouldn't turn any more.