Switch to Keg or All Grain?

[bobeer]

i agree with most on here... Go to biab all grain, fermentation control, then worry about kegging.

Kegging is great when you already have great beer. Not to say you're not already making great beer, but if you can control your temps you'll make even better beer.

 

[pat10323]

Yeah, ferm control, all-grain, then kegging.

Personally, I think kegging is a bit overrated. I think the only time that it would really be needed is with maybe IPAs, where you want to drink it fresher and faster.

Otherwise, as long as you get your bottles back or restock them with storebought brew, you don't have to worry about buying any additional stuff like CO2 or kegs.

U must not have a kegerator or keezer because ice cold kegged beer on tap is the bomb

 

[Ungoliant]

U must not have a kegerator or keezer because ice cold kegged beer on tap is the bomb

I didn't say kegged beer was bad. There's certainly some difference in flavor when it comes to cans, bottles, and tap.

Part of my reasoning is, every time I see a beer poured off a tap (at a brewery, bar, or otherwise), the server always struggles with foam, and I'd rather not waste beer due to foam. I've never had this issue with bottling, and most beer styles (except for maybe IPAs and other hop heavy styles) will benefit from bottle aging.

I also have higher priorities for equipment than kegging stuff (like converting to a multi-vessel automated system), especially considering I'm looking at around $250 to get set up for it.

 

[bdaniell]

I think there has been lots of good posts to this question and I agee with the thought that fermentation needs to be a priority. With that being said, you have limited batches under your belt and the beauty of extract is you have more consistency with each batch while all grain will create some additional steps that may alter your beer. I would suggest doing partial grain so you can steep specialty grains, stay consistent with your base malts and then ensure you have good fermentation control. All three will help you build confidence before you make switch to all grain. In fact, you may never make the switch once you learn how consistently you can make great beer with extract and still be able to customize with specialty grains, yeasts, etc. Good luck!

 

[Sailingeric]

I went kegging first and it has been great but there are some steep startup cost but it is nice to pour a small glass when you want just a little bit or fill a growler when you want more.

 

[jignji]

At three batches, I wouldn't have been ready to make the jump to all grain. It's not that it's harder. But there is more to keep track of and more things that could go wrong.

 

[Roland_deschain]

I started brewing 4 months ago. I was in a similar situation as the OP in that I had limited funds to grow my hobby. Before my first batch was ready I was fortunate to find a two tap kegerator with three ball locks kegs, newer co2 tank and regulator, and a bunch of miscellaneous tubing and connectors for 200.00 on Craigslist. All I can say is that I couldn't be happier with the results.

 

[pat10323]

I started brewing 4 months ago. I was in a similar situation as the OP in that I had limited funds to grow my hobby. Before my first batch was ready I was fortunate to find a two tap kegerator with three ball locks kegs, newer co2 tank and regulator, and a bunch of miscellaneous tubing and connectors for 200.00 on Craigslist. All I can say is that I couldn't be happier with the results.

Hell of a deal

 

[Iseneye]

Part of my reasoning is, every time I see a beer poured off a tap (at a brewery, bar, or otherwise), the server always struggles with foam, and I'd rather not waste beer due to foam. I've never had this issue with bottling, and most beer styles (except for maybe IPAs and other hop heavy styles) will benefit from bottle aging..

It doesn't worry me if someone bottles or kegs or drinks straight from the fermentor but you don't get foamy pours from kegs if you have a balanced system. When I bottled I wasted far more beer due to leaving the sediment in the bottom when pouring.

 

[hopsandhops]

Man, you guys are great! Fermentation control is definitely a must. I failed to mention that a temp controller will be a part of the refrigerator equation when it does arrive. Also I am in south MS so for 9 months of the year it is generally too warm to use our garage to ferment unless it is temperature controlled.

Since you brought it up, which temp controller do you recommend? I am not afraid of wiring or figuring out how to make it work.

As for the original question, I am still on the fence. I really want to do both and will eventually. Before I make the final decision I will be going to an all grain brewing class to learn more about the process and equipment.

When I first started brewing, with extract, I loved it but I knew I wouldn't stay involved if I had to bottle every batch. The time needed to carb, along with the "bottle management" of cleaning and storing bottles between batches, as well as the time and mess of sanitizing and bottling a batch convinced me that if I were going to get better and brew beer I preferred over commercial, I had to get into kegging. Batch 4 was kegged.

Now, over 40 batches later, after going all grain, and building a BrewPi controlled ferm chamber, I still love being able to walk over and pull a pint of home brewed goodness from the tap, or a half pint, or a couple of sips, if that's all I want. That, along with the instant gratification of being able to go grain to glass in 2 weeks (occasionally) makes kegging a hobby in and of itself.

I will say that going all grain dramatically improved my beer, but I might not have made it to that point if I continued bottling

 

[brewcat]

I didn't say kegged beer was bad. There's certainly some difference in flavor when it comes to cans, bottles, and tap.

Part of my reasoning is, every time I see a beer poured off a tap (at a brewery, bar, or otherwise), the server always struggles with foam, and I'd rather not waste beer due to foam. I've never had this issue with bottling, and most beer styles (except for maybe IPAs and other hop heavy styles) will benefit from bottle aging.

I also have higher priorities for equipment than kegging stuff (like converting to a multi-vessel automated system), especially considering I'm looking at around $250 to get set up for it.

That is on the server and/or the establishment's system balance. I have zero problem at home.

 

[Ungoliant]

That is on the server and/or the establishment's system balance. I have zero problem at home.

Fair enough, but I'm only bringing it up because it's very consistent across a multitude of establishments I've visited. Provided, I really do like the difference in flavors between bottles, cans, and tap. A great example is Bell's Two Hearted. It's best on tap.

 

[seabrew8]

I would go the AG route over Kegs. I too started with kits and then i bought 5 kegs but i never really liked what i was making - it was a means to an end - every 5 batchs i would probably really enjoy one. All grain now is another world IMO.

They say you can make excellent extract beer - which i'm sure you can but i believe its much easier to make above average beer with AG then above average beer with extract.

Context: I'm fairly new to AG but the first batch - stovetop BIAB - was like nothing i ever made before - it was tasty! And the smell! I have NEVER gotten that from extract.

I'm probably not the first to use this analogy but AG to extract is like homemade bread to shop bought bread - to me.

 

[CBXBob]

I'm about 40 brews into the hobby, all extract. Started out following the directions. Mixed results. Started listening to Homebrew Talk. Tried different suggestions. Now get excellent results consistently. Easy brew days, easy clean up, tiny extra cost. Temp control and sanitation a priority. Kegging and bottling depending on the style. Don't secondary anymore, prefer dry yeasts, don't cold crash. Enjoy all styles, prefer IPA's & DIPA's, Porters, and Heffies. One of my all time favorites is Morebeer's Pliny The Elder (4 of the 40 so far) a little expensive, but sooo good I've ordered kits from 6 or 7 different online homebrew stores, all are good, but have settled on the one that packages their extract to my preference, and has overall met my expectations for price and customer care. If I ever decide to do AG, it will be BIAB. Probably right after I buy chickens so I can get more control over the quality of my eggs

 

[beergolf]

They say you can make excellent extract beer - which i'm sure you can but i believe its much easier to make above average beer with AG then above average beer with extract.

Not really. I have had some great brews made with extract, and I have some really bad brews made by all grain. Good processes and attention to details and you can make a great extract brew, and some mistake with all grain and you can make some terrible brews .

The difference is that there are certain recipes that cannot be made with extract. Also you have less control with extract. But very good brews ( even award winning brews) can be made with extract. The beauty of all grain is the control you have over the recipe. Things like grains that are not available as extract and mash temps to control fermentability. That being said, poor control of an all grain recipe can make a very poor beer.

 

[gnef]

I think this all depends on your personal preferences and goals. Each of us has found our own individual path that we follow that is best for us, but not necessarily best for others.

I personally went to kegging first. The reason was simple, I really disliked bottling. I disliked just about everything about it. In fact, I still tell people that if I were still bottling, I would've stopped brewing a LONG time ago. But that is me. There are some that have bottled for decades, and either don't mind it, or actually enjoy it. For me, going to kegging was the priority, especially because at the time I kept finding great deals on craigslist (kegs for less than $20, CO2 tanks for $20, regs for less than $20, etc.).

After kegging, then I did fermentation control. This is definitely important, and looking back, I think this would be more important than kegging, especially considering that controllers are so cheap nowadays (Love controllers were the cheapest back when I was buying, and even then, they weren't that cheap!).

After that, I went all-grain. The only reason why I would really caution you about going all-grain first, is that I don't know your water profile, and I don't think anyone else here knows that for you. It could be amazing water, and could produce great all-grain beers. It could also be horrendous for brewing and cause you all sorts of problems with pH and unexpected flavors. The thing is, you won't understand all of that until you do some research and figure out exactly what is happening through the all-grain process.

Since you don't have fermentation control, I doubt you also have yeast handling equipment. That is something else I would recommend you at least look in to. It could be as simple as some DME and a flask, or you could go so far as to canning and use a stir plate (this is what I do now, and it is great, but requires some planning, and not something I'd necessarily recommend for a new brewer).

The other thing I wanted to ask, which may be a bit personal, is what is your budget for this upgrade that you are looking to do? Like others have said, kegging can be quite hefty to be done well (and I'm not a big fan of half measures). I typically recommend to brewers that if they don't have enough saved for a full setup, it is best to wait and save more so that you don't have to buy twice. So if your budget is smaller, it may be best to look further into the fermentation control, yeast handling, then all-grain (yes, I would consider yeast handling more important than all-grain).

 

[Kampenken]

....
Since you don't have fermentation control, I doubt you also have yeast handling equipment. That is something else I would recommend you at least look in to. It could be as simple as some DME and a flask, or you could go so far as to canning and use a stir plate (this is what I do now, and it is great, but requires some planning, and not something I'd necessarily recommend for a new brewer)...

Good points (esp on yeast) and let me add that I now harvest yeast (easy) from brews and pitch slurry. Very easy, very effective and virtually free! I built a DIY stir plate too but don't use it as much now with my slurry practice.

 

[seabrew8]

At three batches, I wouldn't have been ready to make the jump to all grain. It's not that it's harder. But there is more to keep track of and more things that could go wrong.

Good point. I was reading about homebrew on and off for years before i started AG. So yeah go with the kegs man! I hate bottling!

Get yourself some kegs and if you want to make a small batch of all grain you can do it on the stove with a nylon grain bag or something.

 

[slym2none]

That's a hidden-link spammer, he just repeats part of someone elses post and hides a link in there. Quote his post and you can see it.

 

[joshesmusica]

Well since you mentioned you will be getting ferment temp control, then I gotta say, I would go all-grain first, then keg later.

If you got a bottling bucket, and a pretty good system, then bottling isn't as much of a pain in the @ss as most people would have you believe. If you're not bottling properly, and you would need to buy that equipment anyways in order to do it the right way, then I could see thinking about a keg first.

Personally, I have a set budget each month for brewing. If I brew with a friend I can usually sneak in 3 brews. If not, it's usually two, and adding some extras like extracts, or more sanitizer, or a new hose, etc. I don't generally buy equipment out of that budget. I just wait for my birthday and holidays to roll around to get new equipment.

I've been doing a ghetto BIAB setup for quite some time now. I had a really, really good Christmas this year and finally got a 3500 watt induction plate, a 36L pot, and an immersion chiller. I'll still be mashing in my bottling bucket, and doing a batch sparge, still BIAB.

As others have said though, if you already have a big enough pot, going BIAB should be super easy. You just need the bag. So then maybe you can afford to do both.

So I guess the question is, what is your setup right now?

 

[trojan]

My setup right now is a 5 gallon kettle, that I borrow from my wife and brew on the stove. I have the bottling bucket, 6.5 gallon better bottle, and a 6.5 gallon glass carboy. My budget right now is about $375. Should be enough to get started with either provided my fridge connection comes through with a free fridge.

 

[joshesmusica]

My setup right now is a 5 gallon kettle, that I borrow from my wife and brew on the stove. I have the bottling bucket, 6.5 gallon better bottle, and a 6.5 gallon glass carboy. My budget right now is about $375. Should be enough to get started with either provided my fridge connection comes through with a free fridge.

Before I got the new kettle all I had was a 19L/5G pot. Which meant to make 19L o would need to top off. But my fermentoris actually 30L so I always just like to make 25L batches. It means a lot of top off liquid, which means a very thick mash, and lots of grains, but it was still about half the cost as extract.

What I ended up doing was really pretty ghetto, haha. I would start with about 17.5L in the pot, because after measuring it with two separate 1L measuring cups, I found it was actually only 18L where it was supposed to be 19. Post boil was about 13L, so I would top off with 12L. I started with just water, but after taking all this into consideration my efficiency was around 50%. So what I started doing was basically doing a batch sparge, then using a 5L pot on the side, boil a little over 4L for about 5 mins, or just enough for the hot break, then cool, pitch in the fermentor, then do that two more times. I didn't use any hops in those boils, but since I was topping off, then I just had to use a little more in the main boil. I don't typically make super hoppy ipas or anything, so this wasn't that big of a deal.

It was a little more work, but it allowed me to move to all grain and still get a couple of kegs. I already had all the equipment, just needed the bag. So if your bottling bucket can handle about 6 gallons, I don't see any reason you couldn't do something similar. Then just wait until you get a little extra again, and upgrade the kettle. I also didn't have an immersion chiller, so I just cooled in the sink. Tap water usually comes out pretty cold here, in the late fall/winter it's about 8-9C!

 

[RM-MN]

My setup right now is a 5 gallon kettle, that I borrow from my wife and brew on the stove. I have the bottling bucket, 6.5 gallon better bottle, and a 6.5 gallon glass carboy. My budget right now is about $375. Should be enough to get started with either provided my fridge connection comes through with a free fridge.

That $3.75 should be enough to get a pair of paint strainer bags and with the equipment you have already, you can do 2 1/2 gallon all grain BIAB batches.

Oh, you meant $375.00. I guess you could go all grain and keg.

 

[chickypad]

I think you've got to look at this as two completely unrelated decisions and make your choice based on what you want out of the hobby. As RM-MN points out you can start doing all grain now with minimal investment so it doesn't have to be a cost issue where you can only do one.

I started kegging very early on because I detest bottling. It's not difficult but for some reason I just hate pretty much everything about it. I know some find this ridiculous, and I've even heard some say they find bottling relaxing, but like gnef I don't think I would brew nearly as much if I had to bottle every batch. As someone also mentioned it's great to be able to pour any quantity you want without having to drink or waste a whole bottle.

The decision to brew mostly all grain for me is largely about control and variety. There are so many things you just can't do with extract - like the wide range of malts that don't come in extract form or the ability to control fermentability with mash manipulation. I love tinkering with recipes and ingredients and IMO the best way to do that is with all grain.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[joshesmusica]

I think you've got to look at this as two completely unrelated decisions and make your choice based on what you want out of the hobby. As RM-MN points out you can start doing all grain now with minimal investment so it doesn't have to be a cost issue where you can only do one.

I started kegging very early on because I detest bottling. It's not difficult but for some reason I just hate pretty much everything about it. I know some find this ridiculous, and I've even heard some say they find bottling relaxing, but like gnef I don't think I would brew nearly as much if I had to bottle every batch. As someone also mentioned it's great to be able to pour any quantity you want without having to drink or waste a whole bottle.

The decision to brew mostly all grain for me is largely about control and variety. There are so many things you just can't do with extract - like the wide range of malts that don't come in extract form or the ability to control fermentability with mash manipulation. I love tinkering with recipes and ingredients and IMO the best way to do that is with all grain.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I'm with you on both those, kinda. I wouldn't say I detest bottling, but I most certainly find reasons to put it off when my pipeline is doing well. Eventually I will likely barely bottle.

As for control of the fermentables, my choices of extracts were very limited, so I had to use specialty grains if I wanted anything even slightly dynamic. So at that point, doing BIAB only added about an hour to brew day. With my new equipment that should now be cut back down to only about 30 minutes more.

 

[inkbird]

Not following this at all. First I falsely assumed you meant the similar to STC 1000 Inkbird for similar price- and thus without these options.... But you're quoting one that is $55 v $20. And STILL needs a ferm chamber, so not following at all, maybe OP can make sense of it!

Here is the ITC-1000. Now it costs $17 fulfilled by Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OXPE8U6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Kampenken]

Here is the ITC-1000. Now it costs $17 fulfilled by Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OXPE8U6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Correct. Comparable unit to STC 1000, same price, but you've just changed your point from post#37 (Inkbird 310T @~$55). The ITC1000 you linked requires mods to get control, BUT you can't modify it!!!..., unlike the right STC 1000

Your #37 post:

"the $12 stc1000 is a thermostat that is the beginning of a project that will result in a ferm chamber after some additional $, time and effort. The OP can figure out which is "cheaper" for himself

....and the new inkbird The inkbird 310T has a timer to raise temps.....good enough or me and I didn't even need a coping saw...."

Edit: Oops! My reply was due a quote you posted above, but that was in response I had with someone else! My bad.

 

[treacheroustexan]

Yeah I would say if your budget is actually $375, you could get some AG equipment and start kegging if you do some shopping around for the best prices. Nothing better than pouring a pint of your first AG beer out of your first keg.

 

[tezcatlipoca]

I made this decision a year ago. The way I saw it, I had two options: invest in making possibly better beer and much different beer, as some beers just cannot be done with extract. Or gain the ability to drink more than one beer at a time or so, assuming you don't have a warehouse to store bottles in.

After getting the all-grain going, I did invest in a keg and put that in my fermentation chamber. Next, I'll invest in a freezer so I can get my fermentation/lagering chamber back. Then more kegs and I should be happy forever...

 

[trojan]

I finally quit delaying and just bought the equipment to go all grain. I even have some money left over to get some Kegging equipment. Thanks for all of the suggestions and experiences. I did get an STC-1000 to control my fermentation as well

 

[hopsandhops]

You couldn't go wrong either way. All grain made a massive difference in quality of beer for me.

And temp control will allow you to brew any style at any time. Enjoy!

 

[ballsy]

If you don't mind bottling then go AG first. If you find yourself dreading bottling day or cursing while you are doing it, then go to kegging instead.