Super simple control panel?

[bdf]

I am looking to switch to electric sometime in the near future so I can brew in my laundry room (-8F in Nebraska today -- need I say more?)

My ideal setup for electric would be one control panel that controls elements for both the HLT and boil kettle. I don't need temp sensors or anything - already have my cheapo remote thermometers going. I don't need automation - i don't mind standing up and turning heat off/on. I just want to brew inside.

Right now I do 10 gallon batches, batch sparge, with 3 keggles fired by propane on my driveway. My "temp control", as it were, is simply setting the temp on remote probe meat thermometers (with alarm) and turning off the heat when I'm at temp.

Basically all i want is a control box that controls the HLT and boil kettle elements, and a switch for my single march pump.

Anybody have any experience with something like that? Advice?

Just FYI, I have virtually no electrical experience, but like learning/making stuff.

My priorities would be a simple build so I can make it myself, and to try to keep cost down (less $ on gear == more $ for beer, right?)

 

[Creepersale]

I'm just jumping in cause I'd like the same thing.

 

[poptarts]

 

[bdf]

Actual switches would be nice.

 

[stlbeer]

How much power do you have available?

A PWM might be the best control for what you want to do, but knowing how much power you have is really what's needed.

On a single 120v,15amp outlet, the best you could probably utilize is 1500 watts (12.7 amps). That will take about 1.5 hr to get 8 gallons of water from ground temp (55*F this time of year) to strike temp (estimated at 160*F). - and another hour to get it from 150*F to boil. - Running at 100% with 95% efficiency (insulating will bring the efficiency up).

So how much time do you want to spend brewing given the amount of power you have available?

You can answer these questions for yourself by downloading the spreadsheet "ElectricHeat.xlsx". Just Google it and you'll find it.

Once you have determined this for yourself, then we can move forward. Building a controller is easy. Building it right and controlling the right amount of current is another thing.

Also read the Primer for Electric Brewers that is stickied at the top of this forum. There is a LOT of very useful information there.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I love it!

How much power do you have available?

 

[bdf]

How much power do you have available?

A PWM might be the best control for what you want to do, but knowing how much power you have is really what's needed.

On a single 120v,15amp outlet, the best you could probably utilize is 1500 watts (12.7 amps). That will take about 1.5 hr to get 8 gallons of water from ground temp (55*F this time of year) to strike temp (estimated at 160*F). - and another hour to get it from 150*F to boil. - Running at 100% with 95% efficiency (insulating will bring the efficiency up).

So how much time do you want to spend brewing given the amount of power you have available?

You can answer these questions for yourself by downloading the spreadsheet "ElectricHeat.xlsx". Just Google it and you'll find it.

Once you have determined this for yourself, then we can move forward. Building a controller is easy. Building it right and controlling the right amount of current is another thing.

Also read the Primer for Electric Brewers that is stickied at the top of this forum. There is a LOT of very useful information there.

This would be in my laundry room, so I've got the 220V dryer outlet. I believe it's on a 30 amp circuit but I'll have to double check.

What's a PWM?

 

[stlbeer]

What's a PWM?

PWM is Pulse Width Modulation. Think stove top controller for a heater element.

Auber Instruments sells a 40amp kit that includes a SSVR and potentiometer for $26. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=353.

This can be placed in a project box to control your 220v for your element. Search in this forum and you'll find builds of this type.

It goes without saying that you should make sure to utilize a GFCI breaker or circuit for use with this controller.

 

[bdf]

So, let's say I don't have 30A circuit where I'm brewing.

Could I then have a professional wire a spa panel to my home's main breaker, then plug my controller into that? Would the spa panel take care of the GFCI protection? Something similar to this thread on HomeBrewTalk? I'm just not sure how exactly the spa panel fits in to the equation.

Thanks for the PWM link - that looks like exactly what I need.

 

[stlbeer]

Could I then have a professional wire a spa panel to my home's main breaker, then plug my controller into that? Would the spa panel take care of the GFCI protection? Something similar to this thread on HomeBrewTalk? I'm just not sure how exactly the spa panel fits in to the equation.

In short, yes. A spa panel is about $70 and has in it a GFCI breaker. They are available in various sizes of breakers. Mine is 50amps. Get one to match the load you are planning for. This is an item you only want to get and install once, so if you have bigger plans for growing your brewery plan accordingly.

P-J put together a great thread on installing a Spa panel. Search this forum for more details.

Besides the 2 parts of Auber you want to make sure you have a definite purpose contactor to serve as your on/off for both legs of the 220v. They're about $10 each.

I think P-J has put together some electrical schematics for that. Again, do a search in this forum.

 

[beinert]

The spa panel provides GFCI protected power to the diagram you referenced. Instead of a spa panel, you could have said professional install an appropriately sized, double pole, GFCI breaker in your main panel, then just pull 4 wires to your brewing location and install a 4 wire outlet for your brew panel.

 

[stlbeer]

The spa panel provides GFCI protected power to the diagram you referenced. Instead of a spa panel, you could have said professional install an appropriately sized, double pole, GFCI breaker in your main panel, then just pull 4 wires to your brewing location and install a 4 wire outlet for your brew panel.

You are correct. Usually the breaker alone is priced higher than the spa panel though.

 

[stlbeer]

I think this thread has pretty much everything you need. You could drop out the ammeter and save some dollars.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/simple-ssvr-controlled-e-biab-rig-443594/index2.html

See post number 19 for a parts list.

And here's the thread for wiring up a spa panel: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/spa-panel-wiring-dummies-266751/

See post number 2.

 

[beinert]

I think this thread has pretty much everything you need. You could drop out the ammeter and save some dollars.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/simple-ssvr-controlled-e-biab-rig-443594/index2.html

See post number 19 for a parts list.

You're right I paid about $90 for a 50A GFCI breaker.
Add a DPDT (Center off), 240V, 30A switch to the SSVR and second contactor output to switch between two heating elements.

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

Depending on who made your panel you may find a reasonably priced GFI breaker, mine was $70 for a 30a GE. Either way a GFI is definitely the most important part of your build.

 

[poptarts]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003ZTWYXY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Just a thought

 

[beerloaf]

I installed a 50 amp spa panel about 3 years ago for our hot tub meeting all the code specs. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Midwest-...l-Disconnect-with-GFI-UG412RMW250P/100686230# I was going to do another one probably this year going into my garage so that I can convert from gas to an electric brewery setup. The highest cost involved was the heavy copper wire #6 gauge at a total of 200 ft. (4x 50ft strands) It wasn't that difficult to do and I'm not an electrician. It did take some research though.

beerloaf

 

[augiedoggy]

PWM is Pulse Width Modulation. Think stove top controller for a heater element.

Auber Instruments sells a 40amp kit that includes a SSVR and potentiometer for $26. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=353.

This can be placed in a project box to control your 220v for your element. Search in this forum and you'll find builds of this type.

It goes without saying that you should make sure to utilize a GFCI breaker or circuit for use with this controller.

Just pointing out another option for those on a budget.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-KYOTTO-...d=100041&prg=1188&rk=7&rkt=9&sd=261314151431&

 

[Michilimackinac]

So, let's say I don't have 30A circuit where I'm brewing.

Could I then have a professional wire a spa panel to my home's main breaker, then plug my controller into that? Would the spa panel take care of the GFCI protection? Something similar to this thread on HomeBrewTalk? I'm just not sure how exactly the spa panel fits in to the equation.

A lot of folks spend money they don't have to installing spa panels (or subpanels). Generally, you don't need them. If your main breaker panel has two slots available, and it's not currently overloaded, you can have the electrician install a 30A GFCI and run you a line from there to where you need it, terminating in a junction box or 220 VAC outlet.

Subpanels are generally designed to get multiple wire runs to far reaches of a building. You run one wire to the panel, then multiple runs out of that. Spa panels allow users the ability to shut the line down for the winter, not much else.

 

[augiedoggy]

A lot of folks spend money they don't have to installing spa panels (or subpanels). Generally, you don't need them. If your main breaker panel has two slots available, and it's not currently overloaded, you can have the electrician install a 30A GFCI and run you a line from there to where you need it, terminating in a junction box or 220 VAC outlet.

Subpanels are generally designed to get multiple wire runs to far reaches of a building. You run one wire to the panel, then multiple runs out of that. Spa panels allow users the ability to shut the line down for the winter, not much else.

The issue I had with this was the GFCIs all have crazy markups. The cheapest 30a GFCI was priced about the same as a 50a gfcI at $90..... however if I bought the spa panel which included the same brand 50a gfci it was only $59??? Obviously it would be stupid to buy a stand alone gfci when it was cheaper and more convenient for me to buy a 30a 2 pole breaker for the panel and then mount the 50a spa panel nearly my control panel and use that as the main power switch as well.... time will tell if this will hurt the breaker but I doubt it since I when I was a maintenance man I used to switch high wattage parking lot lights on and off every night by the breakers for over 15 years and don't recall ever having to replace one.
The idea of a spa panel is the gfci should be near the load and its easier to turn off in an emergency when near the hot tub... at least that's what I was told I needed to mount mine where I did when I wired in my hot tub and got it inspected....