Sulfer absorbtion in Lagers with "Quick Lager" steps.

[Flanman]

This might seem like a silly question...I looked around on other threads and found so many different ways of people handling the scrubbing of sulfur that I wanted to see what some active users are doing.
I have an Octoberfest and a German Pilsner where they smell a substantially like sulfur but taste amazing. (I know its normal, I just want to see what everyone is doing about it.)
The Octoberfest was fermented in primary @ 49-50F with a 1.8 Liter 2 stage starter of 2206. Both pitched at fermentation temps +/- 2 F.
The German Pilsner was fermented in primary @ 50F with a 2 Liter 2 stage starter of 2124.
Both were monitored for SG drop off.
Octoberfest OG was 1.050. Brought to a D-rest at 1.019. Slowly brought temp up to 58F over two days.
German Pilsner OG was 1.043. Brought to a D-rest at 1.016 over 2 days to 58F.
Both beers are sitting in D-rest for about 4 days before I move on.

SO HERE IS THE QUESTIONS ON PREFERANCES...

What temp works best for scrubbing out sulfur? Some say 10F below your fermentation temp so that would put me at 40 F.

Since they will be Lagered and "secondaried" in kegs (to prevent suck back and simplify the whole process) Is anyone slowly bringing it down after a scrubbing phase @ 40 F to 33F for lagering or just keeping it at 40F to lager? And if so when are you doing that?

Has anyone had any real success with forcing off residual sulfur compounds in a keg by pushing out (overtime) with C02 by purging it occasionally?

The reason I am asking is I am trying a speedy method for lager fermentation. That being said, with faster fermentation times, it doesn't seem like things are scrubbing as well as I would like them too so I am looking into ways to help scrub the beer more via temp (or any other method) in the keg/ secondary.
Cheers everyone and have a great New Year's Eve!

 

[dmtaylor]

As far as I know, TIME might be the only parameter that matters. I find that about 3 weeks at any temperature is all that is needed to get rid of sulfur in most cases.

If you are in a big hurry, the remedy might be to add a piece of copper or some old copper pennies to the brew for a few days and see if that helps, since copper reacts with sulfur compounds. Personally I have never tried this, but I know others say that it helps.

 

[madscientist451]

I'd keep bumping it up 2-3 degrees a day until you hit 66F and see if the increased fermentation action cleans up the sulfur.

 

[Flanman]

I'd keep bumping it up 2-3 degrees a day until you hit 66F and see if the increased fermentation action cleans up the sulfur.

I didnt want to step too far out of the range for the German Pilsener yeast (Wyeast 2206) because its upper limit is 58. I tried it today and it has a nice balance of sulfur in it. A lot like a malty version of a Pilsner Urquell. So i will keg it tomorrow at a FG of 1.008. Im excited for that one.

My Octoberfest I can bring up to 68F (wyeast 2124) without any chance of off flavors so I might bring it up. It's FG is a little lower than I hoped so I am worried about bringing it up and if finishing too low and having a dry taste. Thoughts?

The penny or copper thing is a neat idea. I use copper in my still to strip sulfur compounds...I wonder if that is a good idea. I always thought that having copper touch the beer after fermentation could cause inorganic acids to form as the beer breaks down the copper.

Happy New Years everyone!

 

[dmtaylor]

There's no such thing as an upper limit of 58 F. You can warm up your beer to 75-80 F for a short time if you really want to clean up. I wouldn't keep it there for more than a couple weeks but less than that, it's only going to help, not hurt.

 

[Flanman]

Ohh ok. I usually dont go too much out of the recommended bounds without a reason. I am a kinda "keep it between the lines" guy. Have you taken 2206 up that high? I just worry about a yeast with that low of a range going high and producing some esters. Might be me just being overly protective of an organism that has been cultivated in caves for hundreds of years haha.

 

[madscientist451]

Ohh ok. I usually dont go too much out of the recommended bounds without a reason. I am a kinda "keep it between the lines" guy.

The original post had the reason, a heavy sulfur smell. To me, that would make the beer undrinkable, so why not raise the temperature to see if it will dissipate. If the beer has reached final gravity, raising the temperature won't help the sulfur issue, but lagering for a couple of months might help.

 

[Flanman]

Ok. So going forward dependent on what the SG is doing if I have more to go I will try bringing the temp higher (even than recommended in the yeast profile) up to scrub it out more.
I was just stating that I worry about ester production if you bring a yeast outside its profile. Granted I understand this is not a set parameter and it depends on a lot of different factors. Are there any yeasts you would recommend not going above 65-68 with? Just incase there is I would want to know if you or anyone has had any experiences with going too high and possibly causing other flavor issues.

 

[dmtaylor]

The commom wisdom these days is that esters are only produced the first 3 to 4 days of fermentation. After that it is safe to increase temperature to allow cleanup and full attenuation, no ill effects.

 

[Flanman]

The commom wisdom these days is that esters are only produced the first 3 to 4 days of fermentation. After that it is safe to increase temperature to allow cleanup and full attenuation, no ill effects.

I guess that makes more sense now that I think about it. Thanks.