Stuck Mash Reason for Low Efficiency?

[lemmiwinks]

Brewed my second AG recipe this weekend.
Recipe consisted of 15lbs of 2 Row, 2 lbs Flaked Oats and 1 lb Crystal 20
I have a Home Depot cooler conversion as my MLT with a steel braid as the filter.
My mash got stuck I'm guessing during my lautering and I thought it was just done draining because when I added my sparge water, my cooler nearly overflowed. At this point it took about an hour to drain my sparge water after I was finally able to mix up the grains to un-stuck (word?) the sparge. I'm guessing the braid (water hose with the tubing removed) may have been part of the problem. When I dumped the grains out the thing was crushed and had some of the grains (I think it was the oats) stuck in it at the ends.
My efficiency was crap - came out at about 54% as my OG was 1.074 and should have been 1.093.
My process was:
Transferred 5.5 gallons of 180° water to the MLT.
Waited for it to cool to 162° and added first, 2 lbs of oats and then dumped the rest of the grains in. Held temp at 150° for the hour of mashing and that's where the problems started.

Can the stuck mash cause such a low efficiency or might there be a problem elsewhere?
I don't think it's the crush. My first brew was EdWort's Hefe and I got 74% efficiency on the same crush from my LHBS.

 

[Sherpa FE]

I can only tell you from my experience, I have normally gotten the planned efficiency, or just a few points less, when I had a stuck sparge.

In the round coolers that we build for new brewers, we also put a slotted copper pipe in the stainless steel braid, gets great efficiency and will not crush under the weight of the grain.

 

[lemmiwinks]

I can only tell you from my experience, I have normally gotten the planned efficiency, or just a few points less, when I had a stuck sparge.

In the round coolers that we build for new brewers, we also put a slotted copper pipe in the stainless steel braid, gets great efficiency and will not crush under the weight of the grain.

What do you put a 3/8 in copper pipe or different?

 

[Sherpa FE]

3/8 or 1/2 whichever you can get to fit with the valve. I believe we do ours out of 1/2" with slots cut in the bottom.

 

[JesseRC]

Are you 100% positive the braid is not made if plastic. They may look like stainless but may not be. I've been using my 12 inch braid for 3 years making 11 gallon batches and up to 30 pounds of grain with no problem.

You also want to start by opening the valve really slow then slow increase flow after a few minutes.

 

[crazyirishman34]

I am not a fan of the whole braid thing. I used one for the first 12 or so batches I made. Every time I tried a batch with oats or unmalted grains I got a stuck mash. Once I switched to a false bottom things work great

 

[lemmiwinks]

Are you 100% positive the braid is not made if plastic. They may look like stainless but may not be. I've been using my 12 inch braid for 3 years making 11 gallon batches and up to 30 pounds of grain with no problem.

You also want to start by opening the valve really slow then slow increase flow after a few minutes.

Definitely stainless.

I am not a fan of the whole braid thing. I used one for the first 12 or so batches I made. Every time I tried a batch with oats or unmalted grains I got a stuck mash. Once I switched to a false bottom things work great

My LHBS has them for $55 which is pretty reasonable, the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger is the connection to the ball valve is only made with the high temp hosing from a barb on the false bottom to the barb on my ball valve.

Still deciding between a false bottom or bazooka screen, but I already threw out my braid so a decision has to be made before my next brew.

 

[asterix404]

I don't think the stuck sparge was a result of a braid collapse. The flaked oats could gum up literally anything and if the braid was gummed up the liquid wouldn't flow right. I got a stuck sparge on a mesh tube because the crush was too fine and it was a heff. I had to toss the batch because no matter what I did the screen would just gum up and nothing would flow.

 

[crazyirishman34]

$55 is kinda high for a false bottom. I got mine from mid west for $35 and it is set up the same way that you are talking about. I have had no problems with it. You jsut need to clear out the tubing after each day or it can get clogged. I think that with the bazooka screen you are going to run in to the same issues as the braid. I figure if the pros are good with the false bottom I am good with it too.

 

[lemmiwinks]

$55 is kinda high for a false bottom. I got mine from mid west for $35 and it is set up the same way that you are talking about. I have had no problems with it. You jsut need to clear out the tubing after each day or it can get clogged. I think that with the bazooka screen you are going to run in to the same issues as the braid. I figure if the pros are good with the false bottom I am good with it too.

Do you clamp the hose to the barbs or just slid it over them?
Can't really find the real SS clamps that won't corrode.

 

[spenghali]

I agree that your SS braid was probably not actually SS if it collapsed. I have used mine on higher grain bills and still haven't replaced it once. I know home depot in my area didn't even have a full SS one, just some other material (can't remember) with a SS coating. I ended up getting mine at Ace Hardware. Also, do you have anything clamped onto the end of the braid which is not connected to the barb, or does it just have a clamp on it?

 

[crazyirishman34]

I used the crimp on clamps but I am not sure that you really need them. The one issue that I did have with it was getting grain in the tube over time. It caused me to think that I had a stuck mash. But when I took the tubing apart it was clear that it was just bits of grain in the tube. So I left the clamps off and it works just fine. I just made sure that it was a tight fit.

 

[dbhokie]

I am still a novice, but I have brewed 6 all grain batches with a cooler from Home Depot. I started out with a 5 gal, and graduated to a 10 gal. At lower temperatures I tend to steep for 90 minutes, I always end up with great efficiency (so far). I bought the parts to make a copper manifold for about 20-30 bucks and it works fantastic. With those coolers you can actually take the spigot out, leave the washer for the spigot in there, put a 1/2 copper pipe bulkhead in using the spigot washer. Doesn't leak one bit. There is a lot of how to's out there on copper manifolds, but it can withstand the weight, easy to remove and clean, and I've had no stuck sparges so far, and I mill fairly fine.

 

[crazyirishman34]

I hear you with the tubing manifold but really it isn't any cheaper then a SS false bottom. I would just rather spend my time brewing then cutting slots in copper.

 

[BobBailey]

I am not a fan of the whole braid thing. I used one for the first 12 or so batches I made. Every time I tried a batch with oats or unmalted grains I got a stuck mash. Once I switched to a false bottom things work great

I had the same problem using a 5 gallon round cooler with a 12" braid. Since I went to a 10 gallon round with a 30" braid I can mash almost anything without a problem. I'm sure the length of the braid is the difference. Also. stirring well before draining is a must.

Bob

 

[Stauffbier]

I use a large water heater SS braid in my square cooler MLT. I made a coil with heavy gauge copper wire that I insert into the braid. It keeps it from crushing, and also stops the braid from floating/swimming around. I couldn't be happier with it. I get between 76-79% efficiency with it. I've never had a stuck sparge with it, but I will admit I always use a couple handfulls of rice hulls for good measure. Here's a photo;

 

[crazyirishman34]

I think at some point efficacy becomes about the crush. I tend to crush pretty fine with some flour. Getting 80% to 85% is pretty common with my setup.

 

[lemmiwinks]

So it's looking like the Flaked Oats have led to the stuck mash/sparge.

Is it conceivable that the stuck sparge led to the low efficiency or did I miss something along the way.

One variable I forgot to add but remembered upon reviewing my brew day notes - when I mashed in my temp was 150° on the nose when I closed the cooler and I lost about 3° down to 147° when I vorlaufed.

Would a drop in that range cause such a drastic loss of effieciency (16%-17%)?

 

[crazyirishman34]

While doing a 10 minute mash out at 168 F will help with efficiency. Low mash temps won't change your efficiency. A good crush will boost your efficiency.

 

[lemmiwinks]

While doing a 10 minute mash out at 168 F will help with efficiency. Low mash temps won't change your efficiency. A good crush will boost your efficiency.

This was my 2nd AG batch and I had the grains crushed at the same LHBS both times. My first brew (EdWort's Hefe) I got around 73%-74%. When I bought the ingredients for this one the guy working there said he doesn't adjust the crush at all so it would have been the same.

At any rate, I'm thinking a mill is the next piece of equipment to add the arsenal.
In the mean time, would sending the grain through the mill 2x help with that?

 

[crazyirishman34]

i have never run my grain threw a mill twice. I would think that you could have issues with shredding the husks and you really don't want that.

That being said mid 70s for your efficiency is not bad at all.