Streamlining the brew day

[beernutz]

I have read HBT posts from all grain brewers who say they finish batches in under 4 hours. I have been brewing all-grain a long time on a variety of different setups and the one thing those experiences seem to have in common is that it typically takes me about 5 and 1/2 hours start to finish to complete the process.

I tried to record the times and activities performed during my last batch which was only a 5 and not my usual 10 gallon size and came up with this. If I was doing several things concurrently I put them in one group. I think part of the reason I finished right around 5 hours for this batch was because it was 5 gallons as opposed to 10 as I need to heat/boil less water/wort which consequently took less time.

So what steps below can I cut out or cut back on to break the mythical 5 hour brew day barrier?

[U]Brew day activity[/U]	
		[U]start time	duration	end time[/U]
setup brew structure, fill and heat mash water, weigh and crush grains, 
add to mash tun	
		0:00:00		0:45:00		0:45:00
add mash water to grain, set pH and mash	
		0:45:00		1:00:00		1:45:00
vorlauf and pump wort to keggle	
		1:45:00		0:10:00		1:55:00
batch sparge, weigh hops	
		1:55:00		0:45:00		2:40:00
start boil, add simethicone	
		2:40:00		0:10:00		2:50:00
bring to boil and boil	
		2:50:00		1:15:00		4:05:00
cool with CFC and pitch yeast starter, move primaries to fermentation freezer	
		4:05:00		0:45:00		4:50:00
clean up, put away	
		4:50:00		0:15:00		5:05:00

In case it isn't obvious, times are shown in hours:minutes:seconds format.

 

[hophop]

Set up your equipment, weigh and mill grains and get your strike water ready the night or two before. You are starting to boil at 2:40:00, whereas I am heating my first runnings by 1:30:00 ish. There is your 1+ hours on brew day.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[brewkinger]

Agree with this ^

Get everything ready the night before.

Mill grains as my strike water is heating.

Clean up is the other place to multitask. Hot water from chiller goes into any empty vessels with oxyclean to soak.

Start to finish, a 10 gal batch takes me 4h15min plus about 15 min to prep the night before.

For me, the brewday is not a rushed thing. It is the one 6 hour period that my wife and kids allot for ME.
Even more enjoyable is when thy come out and partake in the process. That is brewday ZEN, and I could care less how long it takes.

But that may just be me.....


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[jbaysurfer]

I can do a brewday in 6 hours, but there's no way I can clean two pumps (and yes, I have to clean them both because inevitably the HLT pump gets some backflow from the MT and gets grain in it) my BK, my IC, my hop bag etc in 15 minutes. Also, I don't get very good conversion unless I mash for minimum an hour, then I vorlauf/recirc for 20min while I heat to mash out temp, and I find if I do 3 batch sparges I get successively better conversion for 2 vs. 1 and 3 vs. 2 batches...so I do 3 batches. That's a 45 minute process right there as I vorlauf/heat (to maintain mashout temps) each batch for 15 minutes. I do lots of lagers and like Pilsner malt, so 90minute boil is in order..So there's an extra 1.5-2 hours vs. the speed demons I see on HBT all the time.

BTW, I didn't add those numbers up. But I've brewed enough batches that the durations are permanently etched on my psyche for my process.

Everyone brews the way they like to brew, but in case others feel like I do, remember, this isn't a race. There seems to be some oneupmanship that creeps into discussions of the length of brewday, but If I have had a productive and smooth brewday in 7 hours...I feel pretty good about it. I HAVE done faster days, but I've found I just have to be "on" it constantly so I don't make mistakes that cost me time (like forgetting to heat the sparge water early enough). I tend to brew at night so it's just me and my homebrews relaxing and celebrating after I've pitched.

Also, I've brewed in commercial breweries several times, and it's almost always a 7 hour process there too (in the 3 different breweries I've brewed in anyway...)

 

[GCPHomebrew]

Agree with last post. I have a brew day. If I wanted to speed it up I will go buy a six pack. Bam done 5minute drive. I enjoy the day. Starts at 7am done between 3 and 5. That's two meals my brew partner and I have plus multiple beers out of the keg. The only thing I think would save time is to brew 20gal batches and brew only once a month. But I enjoy 5 gal a week brew day.


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[Komocabo]

I take anywhere from 7-8 hours to brew 10 gals and clean up. The best part of it is I DON'T HAVE TO BE IN A RUSH... it's brewing for God sake... What's the first letter in RDWAHAHB afterall? So, I relax and brew

 

[dobes]

I take anywhere from 7-8 hours to brew 10 gals and clean up. The best part of it is I DON'T HAVE TO BE IN A RUSH... it's brewing for God sake... What's the first letter in RDWAHAHB afterall? So, I relax and brew

Agree with you on that. I usually start my brew day at 6 in the morning done a bit after lunch and then the rest of the day I clean up my notes from brew day and enjoy many homebrews.
I find it hard to drink anything but homebrews on brew day.

 

[brettwasbtd]

OP asked what they could do to speed things up and is then presented (not surprised) with a a lot of people injecting their personal opinions how brewday should go... Everyone has different levels of time availability and enjoyment from this hobby. If some one wants to speed it up then let's address that.

To shorten brew day there are some things you can do as soon as your next brew, others may take a while to implement:

1) shorten mash time - I often do a 45 minute mash and I haven't seen to much of a change in fermentability or extract extraction. Could potentially go even shorter, depends on grist makeup

2) permanent brew structure/space - this may not be feasible for you but this is one thing the sub 4 hour guys general have and it can save some time. When they go to brew the pour their water and are starting to heat within a couple minutes

3) hotter water - you may already be doing this but I fill my pots up with hot water from the tap. That is a 60 degree temp differential I don't need to over come. Gets me up to strike that much quicker

4) temp controlled mash system - the time savings in this, at least for me is seeing you strike temp. Every brew day I don't watch my strike water like a hawk so I over heat and have to wait for it to cool down to temp in my mash tun. The temp controlled mash guys digitally set the temp and don't have to worry about going over

5) sparge quicker - you will most likely lose efficiency here, and depending on your system could have increased stuck sparges. Your vorlauf to boil time could be shortened here.

If you can be mashed in by 30, vorlauf at 1:15 boil by 1:45-1:55, chilled by 3:15-3:30 that leaves 30-45 min for cleanup.

How powerful and efficient is your burner? That can help too! FWIW I am always at like 5.5 hours as well, I don't have a dedicated brew space or temp controlled mash system yet, but am working on it

 

[jbaysurfer]

OP asked what they could do to speed things up and is then presented (not surprised) with a a lot of people injecting their personal opinions how brewday should go... Everyone has different levels of time availability and enjoyment from this hobby. If some one wants to speed it up then let's address that.

Not surprised someone came on to be the OT police either. This is a played discussion, organic conversation is appropriate, and given the responses to my post, others felt the same way.

I generally earned those "likes" that you see by being helpful. That's always my goal. If someone comes on and says "Help me boil in a homer bucket!" (an actual example btw) I'm probably not going to tell him "first you hang the bucket over the flame...but not TOO close..."

 

[NickTheGreat]

Set up your equipment, weigh and mill grains and get your strike water ready the night or two before. You are starting to boil at 2:40:00, whereas I am heating my first runnings by 1:30:00 ish. There is your 1+ hours on brew day.


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You must work in government accounting! You still have to spend the time doing that stuff. :cross:

I also speed up my sparging and mash out. And I've learned that doing 2 batches back to back doesn't take twice as long. And I can use the hot water from the IC from #1 for mash/sparge for batch #2.

 

[Jaybird]

I have read HBT posts from all grain brewers who say they finish batches in under 4 hours. I have been brewing all-grain a long time on a variety of different setups and the one thing those experiences seem to have in common is that it typically takes me about 5 and 1/2 hours start to finish to complete the process.

I tried to record the times and activities performed during my last batch which was only a 5 and not my usual 10 gallon size and came up with this. If I was doing several things concurrently I put them in one group. I think part of the reason I finished right around 5 hours for this batch was because it was 5 gallons as opposed to 10 as I need to heat/boil less water/wort which consequently took less time.

So what steps below can I cut out or cut back on to break the mythical 5 hour brew day barrier?

[U]Brew day activity[/U]	
		[U]start time	duration	end time[/U]
setup brew structure, fill and heat mash water, weigh and crush grains, 
add to mash tun	
		0:00:00		0:45:00		0:45:00
add mash water to grain, set pH and mash	
		0:45:00		1:00:00		1:45:00
vorloff and pump wort to keggle	
		1:45:00		0:10:00		1:55:00
batch sparge, weigh hops	
		1:55:00		0:45:00		2:40:00
start boil, add simethicone	
		2:40:00		0:10:00		2:50:00
bring to boil and boil	
		2:50:00		1:15:00		4:05:00
cool with CFC and pitch yeast starter, move primaries to fermentation freezer	
		4:05:00		0:45:00		4:50:00
clean up, put away	
		4:50:00		0:15:00		5:05:00

In case it isn't obvious, times are shown in hours:minutes:seconds format.

Man I think from start up to clean up your spot on as far as timing goes. I really think when people say there brewday is 4 hours it's because they do a few things the night before and don't account for that time as part of their brewday. I do a few things these days when I brew and I am getting 2 back to back batches in fermenters in less than 6 hours on brewday. First off the night before have everything weighed and measured. Water, grain, hops etc. Second I am personally only mashing for 15 min. I will then start my recirculation and do a quick iodine test. If I am converted I am starting my transfer to the BK. Another HUGE time saver for me was when I started to heat my BK. I start the flame when I have about 3-4 gallons in it. By the time I am at 14 gallons I am normally about 10 min from boiling. So give that a shot.
I did post a video on You Tube on how to set up to make an Iodine test kit if you have never done it or are not sure what to look for.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzrNE3gr8qM[/ame]

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Jay

 

[brettwasbtd]

Not surprised someone came on to be the OT police either. This is a played discussion, organic conversation is appropriate, and given the responses to my post, others felt the same way.

I generally earned those "likes" that you see by being helpful. That's always my goal. If someone comes on and says "Help me boil in a homer bucket!" (an actual example btw) I'm probably not going to tell him "first you hang the bucket over the flame...but not TOO close..."

I think your post was helpful and relevant while also providing your opinion. The posts following yours seemed to only focus on one aspect of your response and I felt the OP wasn't receiving a lot of guidance, which is why I played the OT police I feel like I see something along the lines of this topic come up often and the majority of the advice is focusing on telling the poster they should just RDWHAHB and that would frustrate me if I had been the OP - I am a heavy "search function" person so if I post a thread its because I am not finding the info I want and receiving a bunch of you just need to allot for 6+ hours is not what I'd be looking for... ok off the OT police high-horse

I agree with Jaybird when he states the current time is not too bad for an efficient brewday. I just did 2 5 gallon batches this past weekend, start at 10am and didn't finish with cleanup until 7 - that's 9 hours.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I think your post was helpful and relevant while also providing your opinion. The posts following yours seemed to only focus on one aspect of your response and I felt the OP wasn't receiving a lot of guidance, which is why I played the OT police I feel like I see something along the lines of this topic come up often and the majority of the advice is focusing on telling the poster they should just RDWHAHB and that would frustrate me if I had been the OP - I am a heavy "search function" person so if I post a thread its because I am not finding the info I want and receiving a bunch of you just need to allot for 6+ hours is not what I'd be looking for... ok off the OT police high-horse

I agree with Jaybird when he states the current time is not too bad for an efficient brewday. I just did 2 5 gallon batches this past weekend, start at 10am and didn't finish with cleanup until 7 - that's 9 hours.

FWIW, I though your post was helpful and relevant too. That said, this topic is played. The search function would bare that out. Anyway...it's all good.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

You must work in government accounting! You still have to spend the time doing that stuff. :cross:

While the above is true, if you spend 1:30:00 on a Friday afternoon and that it reduces your Saturday brew session by the same amount, your tied-up time on that Saturday is shorter.

I've knocked out a batch in 4:45:00 one time because I had prepped everything the night before, all I had to do was to turn on the flame and let her rip. I was up at 6am, in the shower at 10:45a and was having brunch (on a Sunday) at 11:30a at the brewery across town.

MC

 

[beernutz]

Thanks for all the replies OT or otherwise. Heck, even if you though my question was played, whatever that means, thanks for replying. It's an open forum and I have been around the block enough times to understand that people are going to say whatever they want to say regardless of the question. There are some good suggestions in these replies which I'm going to try.

The motivation for my question might be explained by one of my favorite Arthur Godfrey quotes, "I'm proud to pay taxes in the United States; the only thing is, I could be just as proud for half the money."

I enjoy homebrewing (and cider and winemaking) and I've been doing it for a very long time but I would love it just as much if it only took half as long.

Sláinte everyone.

 

[Homercidal]

Preparing ahead of time definitely helps. I prefer to measure and crush grain, measure and treat water, fill the MLT, gather all remaining ingredients and equipment, and have it laid out and ready. It doesn't always happen that way, but when it does it saves a lot of time and a 4 hour brew is not uncommon.

 

[Howhownow]

I set up my rig (have to bring it all outside) in the morning, get the full water volume going through the RIMS to strike temp, and then head out to brunch and maybe stop by LHBS (I'm blessed that mine is a 10 minute walk away). When I get back, I am set up and ready to mash in. It makes the "Work" part of brew day seem much shorter, and I seem to enjoy it much more.
Now if only I could do away with cleaning...

 

[jbaysurfer]

Deleted

 

[stevehardt]

45 minutes for batch sparge and weigh hops. Does that increase efficiency? I batch sparge for 15 minutes and my efficiency doesn't seem to suffer (I hope!)

 

[jbaysurfer]

45 minutes for batch sparge and weigh hops. Does that increase efficiency? I batch sparge for 15 minutes and my efficiency doesn't seem to suffer (I hope!)

Batch sparge duration shouldn't affect your efficiency. Batch is just dump stir vorlauf and drain. If this was addressed to me (who earlier said I take 45 minutes to batch sparge), it goes like this. 3 batches (yes I get better efficiency with 3 batches than with 2 and better with 2 than 1, which is normal). 15 minutes each one of stirring/vorlaufing/recirculating. So that's how I get to 45.

 

[stevehardt]

hmmmm...learned something (again)

 

[jbaysurfer]

hmmmm...learned something (again)

Happens to me all the time!

That said, on a homebrew scale, I wouldn't obsess too much on the level of efficiency you get, but rather the repeatability. If you get 65% with a single batch sparge, yet you get that regularly and reliability, getting 83% with a triple batch sparge is likely to save you a dollar or two..and not worth the extra time.

For me personally the amount of batches required depends on the size of the grainbill and the batch volume. Since I've been doing 10G batches in a 10G mashtun, I have to do minimum 2, but more comfortably 3 batches, and for consistency sake I just do them all that way (also, as I said, I'm not interested in shortening my brewday, my current process works for me).

 

[natnov]

The single best streamline thing I've done was to have multiple burners so I can heat the boil shortly after beginning to sparge. Within 5 minutes of finishing my sparge I'm boiling!

 

[helibrewer]

If you fly sparge you can lauter at the highest rate you can without compacting the grain bed. There is nothing magical about going slow, as long as the grain bed doesn't compact go as fast as you can. If you recirculate with a RIMs or HERMs you should be able to lauter at the same rate you recirc. The big guys lauter as fast as they can because they have another batch right behind the current one.

As for iodine testing, remember that iodine only tests for amylose conversion which is only about 20% of the extraction. Iodine will not give you an indication for amylopectin breakdown or conversion

 

[beernutz]

Batch sparge duration shouldn't affect your efficiency. Batch is just dump stir vorlauf and drain. If this was addressed to me (who earlier said I take 45 minutes to batch sparge), it goes like this. 3 batches (yes I get better efficiency with 3 batches than with 2 and better with 2 than 1, which is normal). 15 minutes each one of stirring/vorlaufing/recirculating. So that's how I get to 45.

Funny that after writing the original post and following some suggestions given afterwards, my last batch I brewed on Sunday actually took longer overall than I had planned or than I usually take. That was mainly due to me taking 1 hr 45 minutes for the boil phase as I had to make a Lowe's run, fill up the Yukon, and complete some honey-do's for Mrs. Beernutz during that time. I boiled so long I had to add water so that I'd end up with 10 gallons. I also somehow attached my pump upside down (it has quick disconnects on both ends) and had to take it apart and clean it before I could vorlauf after mashing so that phase took longer than planned.

However, I decided to do two 15 minute batch sparges so that phase on took 30 minutes instead of the 45 I had allocated. My efficiency was right where it normally is when I was taking 45 minutes so I think that is going to be a permanent procedure for that part of the process.

 

[NickTheGreat]

The single best streamline thing I've done was to have multiple burners so I can heat the boil shortly after beginning to sparge. Within 5 minutes of finishing my sparge I'm boiling!

You mean you have heat on your kettle while you're sparging?

It that common? Because one of the longest parts of my brew day is just waiting for the damn thing to boil.

 

[natnov]

Yes. I wait until I gabe a gallon or so of wort, then fire the kettle burner up. I slowly turn the burner up as the volume rises, basically just before boiling until I've collected all the runnings, then it boils in just a few minutes. Sometimes I'll get the first runnings boiling right away to carmelize some sugars. Don't know about common but I always do it....speed things up without "cutting" any corners.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

You mean you have heat on your kettle while you're sparging?

It that common? Because one of the longest parts of my brew day is just waiting for the damn thing to boil.

I wait 'til I have about 2-3 gallons (out of 13.25-gal pre-boil), then I turn the heat on and slowly let it rise to near 200-205F on the thermometer and I hold it there at low flame just to maintain temp.

This has 2 benefits: You're denaturing the enzymes (175F+) and saving time so that when you are done sparging, you're nearly at 212F.

MC

 

[brettwasbtd]

Funny that after writing the original post and following some suggestions given afterwards, my last batch I brewed on Sunday actually took longer overall than I had planned or than I usually take. That was mainly due to me taking 1 hr 45 minutes for the boil phase as I had to make a Lowe's run, fill up the Yukon, and complete some honey-do's for Mrs. Beernutz during that time. I boiled so long I had to add water so that I'd end up with 10 gallons. I also somehow attached my pump upside down (it has quick disconnects on both ends) and had to take it apart and clean it before I could vorlauf after mashing so that phase took longer than planned.

However, I decided to do two 15 minute batch sparges so that phase on took 30 minutes instead of the 45 I had allocated. My efficiency was right where it normally is when I was taking 45 minutes so I think that is going to be a permanent procedure for that part of the process.

Sorry to hear, tho it is funny. I read up on some ways to make brewday go faster in a byo article a few years back and when I went to implement them on a pumpkin brew day all hell broke loose... Very long day haha

Did you go with a 45 minute mash?

 

[JonW]

The biggest time saver I can suggest is moving to two batch brew days. I usually only brew once a month because I do 2 10 gallon batches each brew day. If you can overlap your processes, you can get a second batch done in 2.5-3 hours additional time.

One of the biggest time savers for me though is using an automation controller. I use a BCS system and you can program audible alarms at any state along the brew day. I find this keeps me on task with mashing in as soon as my strike temp hits or starting the sparge as soon as the mash is complete. I also start my boil process when I've collected about 4 gallons of the usually 12-13 gallon boil volume. I'm always cleaning kegs or fermenters or measuring ingredients during the brew process, but as soon as that alarm goes off, I know to jump back to the next task at hand so that no additional time is wasted.

When I was thinking of moving to double brew days, I made a timeline similar to yours so that I could see where I could overlap my processes and forecast how long it should take.

 

[beernutz]

Sorry to hear, tho it is funny. I read up on some ways to make brewday go faster in a byo article a few years back and when I went to implement them on a pumpkin brew day all hell broke loose... Very long day haha

Did you go with a 45 minute mash?

Well the plan was to do my standard 60 minute mash but I ended up taking another 15 or so minutes because I stupidly attached the pump on my mash tun upside down when I was starting to vorlauf. Before I realized what I'd done I had pumped mash and grain backwards and up into the pump clogging it. I then had to take the pump apart, which isn't that hard, and clean it.

I made the mistake because I have quick disconnects on each end of the pump so I can use it both on the mash tun and boil kettle. But when connecting the pump ends I didn't look closely enough at the little black flow direction arrow which was headed in the wrong direction. I took a white sharpie and drew a big white directional arrow on the pump so hopefully I won't fubar that again.

I'm going to try a 45 minute mash sometime in the future though. I think almost all of the conversion occurs in less time than that so why not give it a try?