Strange sweetness i get occasionally.....

[bracconiere]

so i'm drinking this stuff....you probably know i add gluco to all my beers, but i get this once in a while....a weird like nutri sweet sweetness....


anyone confirm it's diacetyl? i'm just asking out curiosity.....it is going into summer here, and ferm temp going up....this is the first batch i did with cascade at 4.5%AA also, instead of my usual high AA hops.....

i'm pretty sure if i dry hopped it it would cover it up...but just a quick question for you guys...can you compare diacetyl to sweetnlow/nutrisweet?

 

[dmtaylor]

No way, not diacetyl. Diacetyl tastes like buttered popcorn and not much else.

Artificial sweeteners taste like overly sweet chemicals, sometimes with an odd bitterness.

The two tastes are completely distinct, no way I'd mistake one for the other.

Stop putting crap into your beer, then your beer might stop tasting like crap.

And, put a wet t-shirt and fan on your fermenter.

 

[Yooper]

Not only does diacetyl have a specific flavor (butter), it also has a definitely slickness and oiliness to it. It has a slick feeling that coats your teeth and tongue. Even if you're not a diacteyl taster (some aren't), you can feel it in your mouth. It's like there is a little crisco in the beer or something like that.

 

[bracconiere]

hmm, well the room temp is warming up....i don't practice ferm temp control....maybe just malt sweetness, recipe was 20lb's 2-row Great western, 8oz's special b....but normally i'd describe the b as toasted nuts......lol but being, disturbingly sweet, and finishing at 1.000....made me curious about what it could be....

 

[VikeMan]

Just a thought. Sometimes hoppy beers (don't know if this is a hoppy one or not) can come across as sweet when they oxidize, even if they are pretty young. How's the beer's color compared to what you expected?

 

[bracconiere]

Just a thought. Sometimes hoppy beers (don't know if this is a hoppy one or not) can come across as sweet when they oxidize, even if they are pretty young. How's the beer's color compared to what you expected?

darker....would lower AA% hops make it easier to oxidize? i got a big crack in my seal on the fermenter too.....

 

[VikeMan]

darker....would lower AA% hops make it easier to oxidize? i got a big crack in my seal on the fermenter too.....

Unfortunately, darker would point to oxidation also.

 

[bracconiere]

Unfortunately, darker would point to oxidation also.

LOL, usually i'm just glad i can swolow it and it gives me a buzz.....i've already drank 7-8 gallons of this......i don't practice LoDo or anything.....i'm just asking because i reached my 99 cent twelver in 2016....now to still have fun mightest well try and make it taste better.....


If it is oxidation....not temp control as everyone likes to say....and i'm not really thinking of changing my system.....what malts hops, or the such, would help prevent it/cover it up? i know i can pull off black, but it gets dull after a while...what about light beers, or at least amber?

 

[Robert65]

Caramel- and toffee-like sweetness are probably the best descriptors of the primary effects of oxidation. (Please disregard the ubiquitous talk about cardboard and sherry, these are extremely late stage effects.) It doesn't really matter how hoppy the beer is or what type of hops. But there is a significant reduction in bitter acids in oxidized beer which can enhance the perception of these developing sweet flavors. Sweetness and darker color are pretty much a double barreled smoking gun.

 

[bracconiere]

Caramel- and toffee-like sweetness are probably the best descriptors of the primary effects of oxidation.

so i need a new fermeter that isn't basically open to air.....Thanks! also tells me to drop a hydro in this wit quick, to see if i can keg it now......


edit: and toffee would be the perfect description for this.....

 

[bracconiere]

Stop putting crap into your beer, then your beer might stop tasting like crap.

And, put a wet t-shirt and fan on your fermenter.

i didn't catch that first read.... and damn, with all these new emoticons....i can't find one for a friendly punch to the shoulder...... (classics)

 

[bracconiere]

And, put a wet t-shirt and fan on your fermenter.

i actually have a third fridge that will fit my 15 gal fermenter, but i'm too cheap to spend the money on electricity...lol i'd rather try to pitch this as a "Feature"......

 

[AByne]

o i need a new fermeter that isn't basically open to air.....Thanks! also tells me to drop a hydro in this wit quick, to see if i can keg it now......


edit: and toffee would be the perfect description for this.

bracconiere let me know if you figure out what is causing this off flavor. I have noticed a similar thing happening in a few of my batches and haven't been able to figure it out. In my case, I don't think its oxidation or fermentation temperature is the issue. I small conical that temperature controlled and never exposed to O2.

Do you notice the off flavor with a particular beer style or certain yeast?

 

[bracconiere]

Do you notice the off flavor with a particular beer style or certain yeast?

you're new, so i have to say, Welcome!


But i'd be curious for my own trouble shooting, how do you store your malt? you talk about good fermentation procedures....but what about a possibility of stale crystal malt?


edit: and yes i find black beers cover it up flawlessly.....blacker the better....

edit #2: if it is stale crystal, my last batch was just 66% 2-row, and 33% raw wheat.....but it sat in my fermenter with a crack in the seal for a while longer then it should have....we shall see! (still carbing)

 

[AByne]

well, i am still actively working on myself.....and oxidation was just a suggestion to me....


now i'm thinking about oxidized crystal malt? sounds like your brew system is fancier then mine, but i just store my crystal malts out in the open?

Thank you for the welcome.

Nothing fancy for my gain storage, just the bags they come shipped in with a clip. I have this happen in my brews with and without crystal malt. Also just had this happen to my last batch with grains straight from the HBS. So they were not sitting around open to the air for a long period of time.

 

[bracconiere]

Thank you for the welcome.

Nothing fancy for my gain storage, just the bags they come shipped in with a clip. I have this happen in my brews with and without crystal malt. Also just had this happen to my last batch with grains straight from the HBS. So they were not sitting around open to the air for a long period of time.

note worthy....when you say without crystal malt....so you mean 100% base malt beers?

 

[bracconiere]

ok, what about oxidized hops? this wheat brew has got it also, same ancient hops....been kept in the freezer, but just zip locked shut....cascade from 2018....4.4%AA

i'm going to do an experiment, and dry hop in the keg....maybe two years for a such a low AA hop it's not bittering the malt well enough......

 

[AByne]

I vacuum seal my hops. If I need to store them.
I’m not real sure oxidized ingredients can cause oxidation or add sweetness to a beer.

 

[bracconiere]

I vacuum seal my hops. If I need to store them.
I’m not real sure oxidized ingredients can cause oxidation or add sweetness to a beer.

welp my cider kicked, poured my dry hopped keg of wheat beer....2 oz's in the keg seems to have balanced it for me......no more sweetness, all i can taste is subtle malt, and a bunch of dry hop,

 

[bracconiere]

i'm thinking being that the dry hoping fixed it, i need to order some bittering hops, and it's a problem with a bad recipe, being all i have in the way of hops if 4.7%AA hops.....lol, anyone know if i can go for a two for and pull the bag of hops from this keg now, and toss it in the other one to save money?