Stouts with "soy sauce" character

[satyrbassist]

I'm not sure if this is even a real problem because it eventually disappears. But every stout or porter I've done has a distinct "soy sauce" character. This is as long as a month or two of bottle conditioning. If I leave it it eventually is gone but I'm curious because I don't get this with any other beer. Is there something in my routine I am perhaps missing? Or is this just the mark of a young stout?

 

[ArcaneXor]

Sometimes soy sauce flavors can come from oxidation and even autolysis, but since this problem is unique to your dark beers and fades over time, it is unlikely to be the culprit.

Do you brew extract or all grain? Do you use any Black Patent in your stouts and porters? What water do you use, and do you adjust it in any way?

If you brew extract, you may consider switching to a light malt extract and increasing the amount of roasted malts in the steep to compensate for the color/flavor difference.
Back off on the black patent - in porters, use chocolate malts (I like Briess Dark Chocolate 420L), and in stouts use Roasted Barley (and some chocolate malt if you wish).

As for the water, if you are not comfortable with mineral additions, I'd suggest a 50/50 blend of RO and spring water, assuming your spring water comes from a limestone aquifer and has a decent amount of carbonates in it. That's a wild stab in the dark, but usually results in a balance of minerals that suits these kinds of darker beers.

 

[satyrbassist]

I've used all tap, 50/50,and all spring water to the same results. My water report was damn near perfect so I'm not thinking that's the problem. But if memory serves black patent is in all I've tried. (This far all partial mash) I'm wanting to go all grain the first of the year. Does the bp cause the soy?

 

[alane1]

find out if they use a lot of black patent in SA triple bock, if they do you might be on to something.

 

[satyrbassist]

Been reading up on oxygenation since you mentioned it. I'm thinking this may be the problem. I've taken to pouring from the boil to the bucket. Thank you for the quick response and the help!

 

[JonM]

Well, that's the good kind of oxygenation. The bad kind of oxidation is when you splash the beer around AFTER fermentation is complete.

Is it kind of like a band-aid/rubbery taste? If you have chlorine/chloramine in your water, that could be the culprit too.

 

[kingwood-kid]

I had a commercial Imperial Stout that tasted like soy sauce. All five of us that tried it agreed that as a beverage, it was terrible, but that it would have made an excellent meat marinade. Oxygenation will help your beer in general, but I don't think it will fix this specific problem.

As far as your water goes, damn near perfect is a changeable thing. Perfect water for a DIPA is very different from perfect water for a stout, unless you mean water that has essentially no minerals in it so you can tailor it to your needs. All the dark malts in a stout drop the pH pretty low, so your water needs some alkalinity (carbonate) to buffer. Try playing around with the target profiles at http://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/ to see what I mean. For a stout, you'll want something along the lines of London or Dublin (or my tap water).

 

[BigFloyd]

Been reading up on oxygenation since you mentioned it. I'm thinking this may be the problem. I've taken to pouring from the boil to the bucket. Thank you for the quick response and the help!

That's not your problem. You want as much O2 in the wort as possible prior to pitching.

It's the nature of some stouts to have that soy sauce flavor when young. I've tasted it in my chocolate stout at three weeks. By two months, it's probably going to be gone. If you can wait 3-4 months, it will be nearing its best. That flavor doesn't show up in any of my other brews, including porter.

 

[satyrbassist]

I really appreciate all the feedback. I will definitely recheck the water. As far as the o2 goes, I know my yeasties need it. I was dumping and then cooling with water. I just read that this can cause off flavors. That aerating before you hit the 90 degree mark will cause oxidation. Do u find this to be true?

 

[voltin]

I really appreciate all the feedback. I will definitely recheck the water. As far as the o2 goes, I know my yeasties need it. I was dumping and then cooling with water. I just read that this can cause off flavors. That aerating before you hit the 90 degree mark will cause oxidation. Do u find this to be true?

Hot side aeration (on the homebrew scale) has been debunked by numerous sources. The only time you have to worry about introducing oxygen is after primary fermentation.

 

[rynoryan]

It's really funny you describe the soy sauce taste. My first beer trying outside of bmc was Guinness. I totally tasted soy sauce. I eventually tried again and soy sauce flavor wasn't present. However I have marinated with Guinness and it definitely leaves a tangy soy sauce flavor on the meat. Not really helpful but this may be some flavor that is more receptive to certain people.

 

[BigFloyd]

II was dumping and then cooling with water. I just read that this can cause off flavors. That aerating before you hit the 90 degree mark will cause oxidation. Do u find this to be true?

I have not found that to be true in any of my brews and yes, they do end up with some incidental aeration during mash (recirculating E-BIAB) and boil. I also recirculate through a plate chiller (at a reduced flow until it nears 100*F). I'm drinking beers now made months ago on that rig and none of them taste stale.

I recently listened to a BrewTalk segment where Prof. Charles Bamforth (who runs the brewing science program at UC Davis) was addressing this topic. He didn't come right out and say no way, it can never happen, but he did express some doubts about it leading to problems (like premature staling) in home brew. He suspects that oxidized compounds which may be formed through aeration while the mash/wort is hot are consumed by the yeast during fermentation (assuming a sufficient number of cells are pitched).