Steeping water volume and pH

[Anglecard48]

They say steeping specialty grains with too much water — experts recommend no more than 2 quarts of water per pound of grain — can release excess tannins. The thinking seems to be that:
1) specialty grains are slightly acidic.
2) the steeping solution should be below 6.0 pH
3) if a large amount of water is used for the steep, the pH of the water will overcome the pH of the grain, raising the pH of the steeping solution higher, beyond the 6.0 level
Therefore, use a relatively small volume of water.

What if the source water for the steeping is within the <6.0 pH range? Would the volume of water matter?

 

[huckdavidson]

What if the source water for the steeping is within the <6.0 pH range? Would the volume of water matter?

The question you'll need to answer is - has the alkalinity of the steeping water been neutralized to the point that it will no longer raise the pH of the speciality grains. Presumably if the pH of the steeping water is < 6.0 pH some or all of the alkalinity has already been neutralized such that the specialty grains will not be affected (the alkalinity of the water won't raise the pH of the specialty grains to the point of extracting tannins).

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

experts recommend

Which experts?

There's more that could be discussed, but I'm not willing to discuss ideas in the shadow of unknown experts.

 

[Anglecard48]

Thanks huckdavidson, Yes, I would have made sure to have the source steeping water at something like 6.0 pH (in that neighborhood) for the steeping and would check the pH of the water/grain mix to make sure it's in the neighborhood of 5.6 pH. In that case, I don't understand why the volume of water would matter. Would it?

And in reply to BrewnWKopperKat
Perhaps I used the term "experts" a tad carelessly. I should have perhaps said, "I've read in several articles that..."
Here are some sources that recommend limiting the volume of water used in steeping specialty grains:
Smith, Brad, "The Right Way to Steep Specialty Grains," beerandbrewing.com, Oct 19, 2016
Hartinger, Craig, "6 Steps for Steeping Grains," byo.com, July 1998
Carr, Nick, "Steeping & Mini-Mashing: The Stepping Stone To All-Grain Brewing," kegerator.com, November 18, 2015
Palmer, John, "How to Brew, 13.2 Mechanics of Steeping," June 25, 2006

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@Anglecard48: How to Brew, 4e (2017) has an updated approach to steeping (steep in a low OG wort made from low mineral water and malt extract). The process is described in chapter 1 (p 13) and background information can be found in chapter 4 (page 58).

With regard to pH meters and steeping, I've found that Mash Chemistry and Brewing Water Calculator - Brewer's Friend will accurately estimate pH when steeping in water. (I didn't see where it could model steeping in low OG wort)

 

[Somesaymybeerisdrinkable]

I do full volume BIAB and I have not had any problems with beers that were mashed at 3qts/lb, so I am not sure why the 2qt/lb limit should apply to steeping grains.

 

[huckdavidson]

Thanks huckdavidson, Yes, I would have made sure to have the source steeping water at something like 6.0 pH (in that neighborhood) for the steeping and would check the pH of the water/grain mix to make sure it's in the neighborhood of 5.6 pH. In that case, I don't understand why the volume of water would matter. Would it?

If excess alkalinity with respect to the average of the DI pH of the grains being steeped has been neutralized the volume of water used doesn't matter.

If excess alkalinity is not being neutralized, then the steeping grains are most likely acidic with respect to the water and the volume of water used matters in so much as the buffering power of the water greatly overpowers that of the relatively small amount of grain steeped in a large volume of water hence a smaller volume of water is beneficial.

 

[Anglecard48]

Thank you very much. All very informative and helpful. I brew 2.5 gallon extract / specialty brews (in other words cut standard, five-gallon recipes in half). And I'm trying to economize on the steps. I'm a retired guy in my dotage, my the end of the brew session, I'm gassed. The Brew in Bag concept is somewhat similar to what I'm going for. If I can steep specialty grains in the brewpot I can save washing up a pot used just for for steeping (every little bit of saved effort is worth it).

The recipes might simply call for steeping Caramel 40 or they might call for a combination, for e.g. Caramel 40, Caramel 120, Chocolate, and Black Patent. I see that I can get in trouble if I don't manage the pH.

Also, I'll need to upgrade my copy of How to Brew, to get 4 edition.

Thanks again.