Steel mash vs Cooler mash

[jwallen]

Hey everyone. I've been malt brewing for about 7 years and I'm way over due for taking the plunge to all grain. I'm trying to figure out the cheapest way to do this RIGHT the first when it comes to which equipment I buy. As of now my biggest dilemma is between the more expensive steel mash or save some $$ by going with the cooler. Any input will be helpful and appreciated. Oh some helpful details...I do 5 gallon batches and don't plan to consistently change to 10 gallon batches. However, I do like to make high gravity beers so would prefer not to have space in the container limit that. It also wouldn't be bad to have the option to do a 10 gallon batch if I needed.

 

[kh54s10]

It is really preference and budget. I use a 10 gallon water cooler with braid. I have done a couple of 10+% ABV beers. It pretty much fills the mash tun. I also have 10 gallon pots so doing a 10 gallon batch would be very difficult.

I wish to go electric so then I would probably go with a SS mash tun. But until then it is the cooler. I have no desire to do 10 gallon batches because I would rather brew different styles, at 5 gallons, more often.

 

[dyqik]

You'll need maybe at least a 7-8 gallon mash tun capacity for high gravity 5 gallon batches, I think. Possibly more if you prefer thinner mashes or depending on exactly how high a gravity you are talking about.

IME, it's worth spending some amount on a decent false bottom and valves whichever way you go. That can easily add up to as much as the vessel itself. So make sure you are comparing total costs for both. I don't think it's worth trying to hack together the various braid or manifold type systems, as stainless steel false bottoms are relatively cheap and easy to use and to clean. Similarly for adding ball-valves - it's probably cheaper in the long run to buy a stainless kit from someone like brewhardware than to spend significant amounts of time hunting for the right parts to jerry-rig something together at the hardware store.

I used a 10 gallon round cooler for several years, but recently the wall collapsed where the outlet goes through, and started leaking. I've shifted over to my old brew kettle, but I'd already set up a RIMS system, so I'm not so concerned about insulation. But I think it wouldn't be too hard to insulate a stainless steel mash tun relatively well. If you can see yourself going to a RIMS or HERMS type system in the not too distant future (e.g. to play with step mashes, mash outs or control mash temperature more tightly), then insulation of the mash tun could be done on a more temporary basis, and going stainless now would make more sense than it might do otherwise.

 

[PsychoBiter]

Have you looked at BIAB? Just buy a pot and a bag. Maybe even use the pot you have depending on how big it is.

 

[jwelch1103]

I use a rectangular 72 quart Igloo marine cooler with a manifold made from copper pipe. Works great, holds temperature very well and with 5 gallon batches one could use it to make even high gravity beers.
I make 12-14 gallon batches and it is suitable for my process up to about 1.070-1.080 wort.
I also have a 128 quart Igloo marine cooler for bigger beers.

 

[LarMoeCur]

What I heard was 10 gallons and budget. Cooler is the only way to go when you say budget.

I've seen 60 and 72 quart coolers on sale a Walmart for 20-25 bucks. They hold temps very well! When I cooler mashed my cooler dropped 1 degree in an hour. Thrown in a cheap bazooka tube, ball valve, and bulk head fitting, and you're mashing for 10 gallon batches for around 40 bucks. Super easy to clean. I've made some great beers in a cooler!

Now Stainless kettle or keggle to a mash tun. Holding temperature is the biggest problem. With no insulation, I'd bet you lose more than 10 degrees in a hour. Now you can buy a super nice insulated stainless steel mash tun (no budget in that), but they are expensive! You can wrap a kettle/keggle in all sorts of insulations. That works pretty good will hold very close to what a cooler will. I've seen guys wrap the kettle in blankets or sleeping bags. Yeah, that works but I'm not a fan. Looks to ghetto to me (why homebrew has a bad name). Now clean up with wrapped kettle/keggle sucks! You have to unwrap the thing or try super hard not to get the insulation wet. I've seen some metal wrapped insulated kettles that may take some dampness but it's again adds to the cost. You can go RIMS or HERMS to maintain temps this adds a ton to the cost.

 

[jrgtr42]

I use a 48-qt cooler with copper manifold for 5 gallon batches.
It works fine for any gravity brew I want. Had one with a 21LB grain bill, and there was still plenty of room for more if I wanted. I'm sure I could do a 10 gallon batch with a smaller OG with no problems from that end. I spent $25 or so on the cooler from Home Depot, $10 on a spigot from one of the online suppliers, plus a 10-foot length of copper pipe and connecters(don't remember the cost) and a $5 pipe cutter. cut slits in the bottom of the manifold with my dremel with cutoff disk.
The Kettle would be the bigger expense. If you wanted BIAB, you should get no less than 10-gallon kettle - probably bigger. If you wanted 10-gallon batch, that starts to get heavy pulling the mash bag out. so think that part over.

 

[Zzyzx3]

Biab is the way to go. Only need a kettle and a bag. Anything over 10 gallon batches using a bag might cause issues with weight, but for 5 gallons it is perfect.

 

[augiedoggy]

With stainless you really need to have a herms / rims or some other recirculation method to keep temps as well as a cooler does.. even insulated stainless mashtuns naturally seem to be too conductive to work as well as a cooler (I think this is one reason why even high end coolers are all plastic on the inside) so if your going to use herms or rims dont bother with the cost and burden of a much bulkier and heavy insulate steel tun IMHO, its redundant in function. As would a cooler be really unless you already have it.

Coolers can work great but dont look as "professional" in this non professional hobby... I went from a cooler to a stainless tun bcause I use a rims and wanted more volume and something that looked better next to the other equipment that kept bringing up the cost of my brew setup... stainless wont warp and can possibly be easier to keep clean. Plus there are bigger diameter false bottoms with more surface area which helps if you are recirculating and doing it at a higher rate. I use a cheap bayou classic 16 gallon kettle with the $45 false bottom they make for it but use a stainless braid under that to catch anything that makes it past the false bottom and prevent it from slowing down my small dc pumps. I have never had a stuck sparge with it.

As far as the beer? Its was just as good with the cooler as it is now really.

 

[madscientist451]

A 10 gallon round cooler with a spigot, a braid/perforated tube and a BIAB bag instead of a false bottom. If you ever get a stuck mash, just pull up on the bag. There's an old HBT thread on how to do it:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=23008
If you don't have fermentation temperature control or a kegging set up, I'd get that before you get an expensive mash tun or any kind of automated brewing gear.

 

[McKnuckle]

For cheap but "right" I would do BIAB in a kettle if the kettle could hold temps without undue additional effort and gear. But it doesn't. I tried that for quite a while and finally gave up.

So now I use the kettle for heating and boiling, but I mash in the original cooler I bought when I started years ago. It's a two vessel system. I sometimes mash with a bag in the cooler, but more often not. And I usually sparge, but sometimes do full volume BIAB with a drain and squeeze.

It's really hard to beat a plastic cooler for holding mash temps without investing in a lot of additional equipment, and complicating your brew day - even though all of those toys look really cool and are possibly fun to use.

I've found the most joy in perfecting my fermentation, wort/beer transfer, and kegging/serving solutions. The hot side, for all its drama, is a simpler part of the process that is ultimately more forgiving most of the time.

 

[patthebrewer]

Depending on your batch size....and budget...a 10 gallon round water cooler with a good ball valve and ss false bottom, is a very cost effective way of mashing. frankly I've been brewing for over 15 years, and I still like the old ten gallon cooler for a variety of reasons, including how cheap they are to make yourself, how they hold heat (insulated),and how durable they are. Full disclosure I do have a 15 gallon Stainless MT, with a false bottom, but I find myself almost never using it, I like the cooler tun too much

 

[eric19312]

I'd seriously consider BIAB if you are also buying a boil kettle. Thing with BIAB is you need a bigger kettle than you do with a mash tun. But it is one pot instead of two or three vessels and even if you switch to a mash tun down the road you likely will not regret having a larger kettle to do bigger batches or longer boils.

If you are locked into a brew kettle that would be inconveniently small for BIAB at your intended batch size a cooler with a braid, or bazooka tube, or manifold is the budget friendly way to go and makes great beer, A steel mash tun requires a real false bottom -- full kettle if you can swing it -- and a way to add heat during the mash and a way to recirculate while you are adding heat. Once you are adding heat and recirculating you will decide pretty fast you want automation and that adds even more cost. I love my direct fire automated recirculating mash tun but won't claim it makes better beer than I was able to make in a cooler even though it was almost entirely a DIY project it mush have set me back $600+ all said and done. [say $150 kettle, $250 for the DIY controller including PID and solenoid valve, $100+ for a full false bottom, + valves + autosparge + burner...brewstand lol).

 

[soccerdad]

I find that a stainless steel kettle with a sleeping bag draped over it holds heat very well. Reflectix insulation is also great, but you might want to cut out some bits for ball valve and thermometer if you have those. I have no experience with aluminum. It might hold heat as well .. or not.

Tell me the circumference of your kettle and I will send you some Reflectix to try. PM your address. Free. No duty or customs to New Jersey, right? You guys still part of the US?

 

[soccerdad]

Oh yeah - meant to say - I avoid the cooler method for 2 reasons .. the kettle works fime and 7 gallons of water weighs 55 pounds. Once it's on the stove, it stays on the stove until it drains to the fermenter.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I use a 52 Qt. Coleman cooler from Walmart with a braid as my mash tun, and I boil in an 8 gal. SS kettle from Target over a turkey deep fryer burner from Amazon,com. If I boil carefully enough I have no problems with starting with as much as 7.5 gal. of wort, and I've pushed this to 7.75 gal. on occasion. I generally end up with about 6 to 6.25 gallons post boil. I've put as much as 6.25 gallons into my 7 gal. Fermonster (wort and trub). My system is about as low cost as I can imagine it getting for all grain.

The 52 Qt. cooler / mash tun would easily permit me to move up to 11 gallon batches if I had a kettle and burner that could handle it.