starting my fifth brew, opinions ? steeping question...

[justenoughforme]

extract brew, aiming for a thick porter / stout style. my last time i tried this i didn't know to crack the grains, so it's color was pretty light and mild. i know to crack the grains now.

planned reciped is:

9.3 lbs light liquid malt extract
0.5 lbs chocolate malt (steep)
0.5 lbs black patent malt (steep)

3 ounces Fuggles at 60 min. (46.5 ibu)

i'm open to dry hopping if people think it'll benefit ?

also, people steep higher than mash temperature ... why ? why not just steep at 155 and let the specialty grains turn into fermentables ? brewgr shows no difference in final gravity between steep and mash and i'm not sutre how that's possible.


also i only have belgian yeast, is it better to stick to abbeye styles, or can belgian yeast make a fine stout ?


planned numbers:
Batch Size5.00Gallons
Boil Size3.00Gallons @ 60 min
OG1.068
FG1.017
Color33.9° SRM
Efficiency75%
Bitterness46.5 IBU (tinseth)
BG:GU0.68
Alcohol6.6% ABV
Calories231 per 12oz

 

[m00ps]

Belgian yeasts make interesting stouts. Theres only a few commercial examples of a Belgian-stout. Youll want to ferment on the low end to minimize bright fruity belgian yeast esters. Go for more spicy ones, itll meld better with your roasted grains

the steep is done higher than a mash because a mash is a longer process and you want to be sure to set the sugar profile of the wort whereever you want it at. With a steep, you are just trying to get the color and flavors out of the malts and tossing them. most of the sugar profile comes from your malt extracts.

 

[mrgrimm101]

I would use either an English or American Ale yeast, but that's just my personal preference. I wouldn't dry hop if you're only doing 1 hop addition in the boil. If you want to go for a hoppy stout, I would do a couple late boil additions.

I find that Black Patent can be harsh. Were it me, I would swap the Black Patent with some Black Barley (500SRM) or Roasted Barley (300SRM), but again, that's just my preference. I like to add some Crystal 60 to my stouts as well. I find that it gives it a nice rounded flavor.

These are just my opinions, but hey, you asked for opinions.

My favorite stout I brew is a hoppy American stout as follows:

9lb Light LME
1lb Black Barley
0.75lb Crystal 60
0.75lb US Chocolate Malt
0.25lb Wheat DME

1.5 oz Columbus @ 60 min
1 oz Centennial @ 5 min
0.5 oz Columbus @ 5 min

1 packet rehydrated US-05 American Ale yeast.

 

[justenoughforme]

thanks mr grimm, i'm working on a hybrid of our two recipe's based on what i have : )

i have a lof of chocolate and crystal 60 malts, so i'll angle your direction... my hops selection is much more limited

 

[asterix404]

I am going to give you the best link that apparently you don't have.

http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style13.php

This is the bible and the holy grail of brewing all together. Follow this guide because this is what you should do when you say you are going to brew a stout.

2 things. Stouts and porters are different beers. You basically have to use roasted barley in a stout and BPM which you did. Porters will typically contain carapils, crystal, or the like for extra body... any malt that adds unfermentable sugars and BPM. Porters never contain roasted barley and stouts almost never need crystal. Porters are very thin beers... essentially they are a pale ale with BPM, brewed originally because people thought dark beers were stronger. Stouts came about with roasted barely being an awesome addition but the two are almost completely different styles, though historically from the same line of thinking.

You are making a stout. A belgian stout would be interesting but not what you would expect. I would even say to keep it at about 65 or 60 if you can. Belgian strains really are difficult to work with and if you get it too hot, you are going to have very strange beer. Also, don't dry hop. That isn't to style but if you want to deviate from style eventually, try it out.

I would also double the chocolate and BPM. These will not add any fermentable sugars. Those sugars are gone in the malting process. They do add flavor which is why you can steep the grain but you want to keep the water under 170/70c to avoid husk flavors from entering the beer. It doesn't taste very good. The only reason people throw that grain into the mash tun is because heating up grain separately is a pain in the ass.

BTW, I also say this to everyone who has done more than a few batches. Think seriously about going to all grain. It is much much better beer.

 

[justenoughforme]

all grain beckons me... but i have no outside room and a pretty small kitchen.

also i drink beer moderately, but i don't have any friends who do, so a five gallon batch of beer is... well a LOT for just me.

thank you so much for the style guide, and all the direct tips. hugely helpful. better than randomly throwing ingredients together.

 

[justenoughforme]

after reading all the styles, i definitely want a porter not a stout. i had no idea all the differences.

i'm looking for a dark colored, complex malty, higher ABV, and thin fluid that doesn't linger too long in the mouth.

looks like chocolate, black patent, and crystal 60 would make a good mix based on the characteristic styles. and as much fuggle hops as needed to hit 40 IBU's

 

[Gavin C]

.... no difference in final gravity between steep and mash and i'm not sutre how that's possible.


...

The gravity doesn't have a bearing on the fermentability. If you disolve anything in water you will increase the gravity but not the fermentability.

As a simple example, the gravity of salt water is higher than fresh. Neither are fermentable.

The unfermentable specialty grains won't become fermentable by mashing. That's why the steeping temperature is not very important. All you want to be sure of is to avoid astringency so removing the grains befor the temps reach 170F is usually advocated.

 

[justenoughforme]

thanks Gavin, that makes a lot of sense.


but is it really true you couldn't mash those specialty grains into something fermentable ? if i say, held it at 150 for an hour ? not that this is the goal, but does it happen like this ?

 

[Gavin C]

all grain beckons me... but i have no outside room and a pretty small kitchen.

also i drink beer moderately, but i don't have any friends who do, so a five gallon batch of beer is... well a LOT for just me.

thank you so much for the style guide, and all the direct tips. hugely helpful. better than randomly throwing ingredients together.

Sounds like some smaller stove-top batches (2.5 gallons) with a simple all-grain process would be just waht you're looking for. BIAB should tick all the boxes.

 

[justenoughforme]

i have no LHBS, is it reasonable to purchase the grains for all grain online ? seems shipping would kill (i guess shipping already kills with extract)

 

[Gavin C]

thanks Gavin, that makes a lot of sense.


but is it really true you couldn't mash those specialty grains into something fermentable ? if i say, held it at 150 for an hour ? not that this is the goal, but does it happen like this ?

It wouldn't be fermentable by saccharomyces cerevisiae as far as I am aware.

Some sour beers will have these non-fermentable molecules fermented by bacteria and/or wild yeast strains but that is a whole different area (sour beers) of which I know little to nothing.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

all grain beckons me... but i have no outside room and a pretty small kitchen.

also i drink beer moderately, but i don't have any friends who do, so a five gallon batch of beer is... well a LOT for just me.

Sounds like 1-gallon brewing would be right up your alley - here's my favourite:

http://brooklynbrewshop.com/beer-making-mixes

IF you need some equipment to scale it down to 1 gallon, they've got you covered, as well

http://brooklynbrewshop.com/store-1

 

[Gavin C]

i have no LHBS, is it reasonable to purchase the grains for all grain online ? seems shipping would kill (i guess shipping already kills with extract)

Yea. I've bought lots online. Shipping from the big retailers is often flat rate for most things. Bulk grains are not usually included but I have bought 50lbs of grain online for various recipes in the past and had it shipped flat rate. No problem.

Northern Brewer, Morebeer, Adventures in Homebrewing.... etc. Take your pick.

Get a recipe/make your own. Plug it into the software, make tweaks and order up. AIH will ship specialty grains by the oz if needed whereas NB will ship by the pound.

Just depends on what you want in a grain pantry.

To go All-grain, all you need is a BIAB bag. Many folks use paint strainer bags. I would favor a good quality bag. @Wilserbrewer has great ones. If you can mill your own grain it's great as you can mill it fine. Use a blender, cheap mill (Corona style) or a less cheap mill (roller mill)

 

[kombat]

but is it really true you couldn't mash those specialty grains into something fermentable ? if i say, held it at 150 for an hour ? not that this is the goal, but does it happen like this ?

No. For two reasons.

Reason #1:Lack of diastatic power. Specialty malts lack the enzymes to convert starches to fermentable sugars. They've essentially been denatured by the kilning process. That's why you must include at least some base grains in every mash.

Reason #2: The starches in specialty grains have already been converted to sugars by the kilning process. The heat of kilning basically gelatinized the starches into (non-fermentable) sugars. They'll add body and sweetness to the beer, but they're not the same sugars produced by the enzymes during conversion in a mash (i.e., the kind yeast like to eat). To be clear: There are no starches left in crystal/roasted malts to convert. They've already been "cooked" into (non-fermentable) sugars during kilning.

 

[justenoughforme]

thank you kombat, that makes a lot of sense.