I made a starter the other day using and old tube (January 10) of WLP051. 1 pint of water, 1 tablespoon of wheat malt extract. There is yeast growth but there is still a brown hue to the yeast. My concern is if this is dead yeast will an off flavor occur? Thoughts?
Starter with old yeast
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Wolfy
Well-Known Member
What does the starter taste like? If it tastes fine it should be OK to use - assuming you have enough viable yeast cells to pitch.
Are you sure the colour is not due to the yeast strain and/or extract you have used (have you used both before)?
Are you sure the colour is not due to the yeast strain and/or extract you have used (have you used both before)?
Step it up to a bigger starter. I wouldn't worry so much about dead yeast as having enough viable yeast.
Dunerunner
Well-Known Member
Problem is you are replicating possibly weaker mutations of the yeast strain. I have brewing friends who regularly brew with out dated viles and smack packs of yeast and have never had a problem, though!
Full speed!!
Cheers!
Full speed!!
Cheers!
I don't think the yeast mutates just because it's weak. Stepping it up on a stir plate should bring back the strength and cell count.
1 tablespoon of extract for a pint of water is much too little. You need about 1/2 cup. I'd step it up by adding a cup of extract boiled (and cooled) in another pint of water. That will give the yeast some much needed nutrients.
-a.
Pivzavod
Well-Known Member
My last batch I made with harvested yeast that I collected in 09/2009 and it was refrigerated since. I added a lot of old yeast, let the yeasties dance on the stir plate for a while and when pitched had activity within a few hours and krausen fell after a few days. The yeast I am using is WY 3711 which is a true beast.
If you're stepping up a starter, then the age of a yeast isn't really an issue.
Bobby M did a test on year old stored yeast here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/testing-limits-yeast-viability-126707/
And my LHBS cells outdated tubes and packs of yeast dirt cheap 2-3 dollars each and I usually grab a couple tubes of belgian or other interesting yeast when I am there and shove it in my fridge. and I have never had a problem with one of those tubes.
I usually make a starter but I once pitched a year old tube of Belgian High Gravity yeast directly into a 2.5 gallon batch of a Belgian Dark Strong, and after about 4 days it took off beautifully.
With any stored, old yeast you just need first to apply the "sniff test" if it smell bad, especially if it smells like week old gorilla poop in a diaper left on the side of the road in the heat of summer.
Then make a starter, and if it takes off you are fine. The purpose of a starter is to reproduce any viable cells in a batch of yeast....that;s how we can grow a starter form the dregs in a bottle of beer incrementally...and that beer may be months old.
Even if you have a few still living cells, you can grow them....That's how we can harvest a huge starter (incrementally) from the dregs in a bottle of some commercial beers. You take those few living cells and grow them into more.
If yeast can be grown from a tiny amount that has been encased in amber for 45 million years, 45 million year old yeast ferments amber ale we really don't need to sweat too much about how old a yeast is, if it's properly stored.
we just need to think in terms of making starters. Viability isn't really an issue if you are reproducing a lot of healthy cells. Which is what you are doing when you make a starter.....
Really even with "old yeast" if there is a few cells, they will reproduce.
Bobby M did a test on year old stored yeast here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/testing-limits-yeast-viability-126707/
And my LHBS cells outdated tubes and packs of yeast dirt cheap 2-3 dollars each and I usually grab a couple tubes of belgian or other interesting yeast when I am there and shove it in my fridge. and I have never had a problem with one of those tubes.
I usually make a starter but I once pitched a year old tube of Belgian High Gravity yeast directly into a 2.5 gallon batch of a Belgian Dark Strong, and after about 4 days it took off beautifully.
With any stored, old yeast you just need first to apply the "sniff test" if it smell bad, especially if it smells like week old gorilla poop in a diaper left on the side of the road in the heat of summer.
Then make a starter, and if it takes off you are fine. The purpose of a starter is to reproduce any viable cells in a batch of yeast....that;s how we can grow a starter form the dregs in a bottle of beer incrementally...and that beer may be months old.
Even if you have a few still living cells, you can grow them....That's how we can harvest a huge starter (incrementally) from the dregs in a bottle of some commercial beers. You take those few living cells and grow them into more.
If yeast can be grown from a tiny amount that has been encased in amber for 45 million years, 45 million year old yeast ferments amber ale we really don't need to sweat too much about how old a yeast is, if it's properly stored.
we just need to think in terms of making starters. Viability isn't really an issue if you are reproducing a lot of healthy cells. Which is what you are doing when you make a starter.....
Really even with "old yeast" if there is a few cells, they will reproduce.
I would wash it to get rid of everything but the healthy, beige colored yeast, and continue to step it up until you have a hefty amount to pitch.
once again thanks for the tips. I actually did the step up starter from a previous Revvy suggestion. That starter rocked! It was pretty cool to see the yeast go from beige to creamy white in a matter of days.
