Starter vs. More Yeast

[Wiesty]

Hey everyone!
So I am making my first Melomel, and I ordered a package of Wyeast 4184 yeast for the 5 gallon batch. Using the Mr. Malty calculator I've determined that this package will not be enough for 5 gallons. Can anyone give me some tips on making a starter with this? Mr. Malty says I will have to make a 12-13 litre starter ?? Or use 4 packs of liquid yeast, which is roughly 30 dollars in yeast.
My other option is to purchase some cheap packs of dry yeast to go with my pack of 4184. Can anyone recommend some good lavalin strands to go with the 4184? How many would I need? Thanks! Can't wait to make my first mead!

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi Wiesty. Don't know who or what Mr Malty is but most packages of yeast can ferment 5 gallons of must with no problem. What is your starting gravity? Assuming that you are trying to make a mead and not rocket fuel (and so your gravity is about 1.090 - 1.100 if the yeast is not capable of fermenting about 12 lbs of dissolved sugar then you are dealing with the wrong yeast. I don't know any mazers who would use a starter. That is a brewers trick that is not usually (ever) needed when you ferment simple sugars found in fruit and honey.
Wyeast 4184 is sold to produce a sweet mead (translated: it cannot tolerate an ABV above about 11 percent and so dies of alcohol poisoning... ). In my opinion using such yeast is perhaps the wrong way to make a sweeter mead. Better to use a wine yeast like 71B and ferment your mead dry (a package costs about $1.50 - and it does not blink at the idea of fermenting 5 gallons) and then stabilize your mead - by adding K-meta and K-sorbate and then adding more honey to sweeten.
PS. I wouldn't mix meads.

 

[loveofrose]

Actually, Wyeast Sweet Mead yeast is a smack pack liquid culture. It does not contain the yeast count of dry yeast packs. The smack pack is good for 5 gallons of SG<1.05, but anything higher would require a 2 liter starter for a truly healthy ferment. Be sure to include nutrients as this yeast is prone to stalling. I suggest both Fermaid K and DAP added in a staggered fashion. Some K2CO3 will help immensely to buffer the pH as well.

Dry yeast have a much higher yeast cell count, so one pack is generally good for 5 gallons of 1.1ish SG.


Better brewing through science!

 

[Wiesty]

I'm making the Cherry Berry Mead from this site's recipe database. OG is 1.13. The recipe states to only use one pack of 4184 (which is a smack pack I believe). However, from everything else I've read here, one pack will not be NEARLY enough for such a high gravity mead. Then again, I know more about beer than mead so someone please fill me in. Is it possible to just grab an extra pack of dry yeast to double up on the pitching quantity? I think it'd be easier than making a starter, possibly cheaper too when you take the cost of honey into account. If this is possible, what dry yeast would work well with the 4184?

also, the recipe says it is a 12% mead, which is odd considering the 4184 yeast strain is only tolerant to 11%....

 

[loveofrose]

I would pick a yeast and stick with it. Mixing yeast has very unpredictable results. Some yeast have a killer factor that destroy other yeast. This can lead to a slew of issues. Either make a 2 liter starter of your liquid yeast or buy 2 packs of dry yeast.


Better brewing through science!

 

[Wiesty]

Is a little over 0.5 lbs of honey enough for a 2 litre starter?

 

[MindenMan]

One-half pound of honey is enough for a two liter starter. Do not mix yeasts, add a small amount of yeast nutrient to your starter in the beginning, along with half of the honey, and over the course of three or four days ( having a stir plate really changes things) and stagger additions of honey and nutrients. By the time you are ready to pitch your yeast, your cell counts will be high enough to eat through anything.

 

[Wiesty]

This is the calculator I used earlier...
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

It states with a 1.13 OG, intermittent aeration, I need about 6 litres of start must. This is for ales, but is a starter not a starter?

 

[loveofrose]

This is the calculator I used earlier...

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html



It states with a 1.13 OG, intermittent aeration, I need about 6 litres of start must. This is for ales, but is a starter not a starter?

Your calculator is for beer. Mead is not beer. All the rules are different.


Better brewing through science!