Starter needed for White Labs 007?

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cuse88

cuse88

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How's it going everyone? I've looked around here a bit and didn't find a direct answer to my question.

I am wondering if I need a starter for White Labs 007? This is my first time using a liquid yeast strain, so I am still trying to figure some things out.

The yeast will be used in a 5 gallon batch of AHS Coconut Porter, but after brewing maybe slightly under 5 gallons. Thanks for any help and if a starter is needed, if someone could shoot me a link to a step by step process I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
 
The official "recommendation" (if there is such a thing) is to always use a starter for liquid yeast. It assures you the stuff is viable and gets the count up to where it should be to pitch successfully. Stir plates are nice but you can do it without one.
 
The usual consensus is 2/3 cup dme to 2 cups water.

Boil for ten minutes or so, cool, then pitch the yeast. If you're making a larger starter, just double or triple the recipe.

You can ferment in almost anything. The preferred container is a 1000 or 2000 ml ehrlinmeyer (spelling?) flask, although any glass type jug will do, and I think I've even read people using plastic containers.

I have read mixed reviews about airlocks though. You are propagating yeast, not making beer, and the yeast reproduce better with oxygen getting to them. However, there may be a risk for infection without an airlock, although, some sanitized aluminum foil does wonders.

That said, I've done it both ways, never got infected, and didn't notice any real difference.
 
Either pitch the vial with a low cell count and risk everything that comes with doing that; long lag time, contamination, stressed yeast...etc

Or

Buy a pack of dry yeast, re-hydrate it, and pitch.

Then

Pull yourself together, buy a Stir Starter from Dan Jeska at Stirstarters.com, get his flask option, buy DME and mix it in water and stick it on the stir plate with a vile of liquid yeast. You wont regret it.
 
Wait, i just realized you didnt brew yet? Oh, you will be fine, dont pitch the vile. The only options now are to either get dry yeast

Or

Get the starter going. No one wants to say this but you need a starter sometime, you might as well start now
 
I made my first starter a few weeks ago, and I had krausen and airlock bubbles within 8 hours. Quickest I've ever had it take off.

I used Wyeast Irish ale. Made a starter with about 150 grams DME and 1500ml of water. Boiled, cooled, poured it into a sanitized growler, pitched the yeast, and crumpled some sanitized foil on top. Left it on the shelf for about 2 days, shook it whenever I walked past. Then a day or so in the fridge, then on brew day I decanted most of the wort, swirled it all up, and dumped it in the bucket.
 
RJS said:
Get the starter going. No one wants to say this but you need a starter sometime, you might as well start now
Click to expand...

agreed. you're technically going to 'need' a starter for most beers when using liquid cultures. as another member posted, mrmalty is a great site to inform you of proper pitching rates for your beer.
 
What supplies are needed for a starter? Just DME and would a Ball jar work?

I am trying to do this as cheap as possible, but also looking to get the best results. Thanks again for the help.
 
cuse88 said:
What supplies are needed for a starter? Just DME and would a Ball jar work?

I am trying to do this as cheap as possible, but also looking to get the best results. Thanks again for the help.
Click to expand...

Yes you can make a starter in just about any type of container. I use a big glass jar. Just loosly cover the top with a piece of sanitized foil. I actually just made a starter of WLP007 a few days ago and pitched it yesterday. I had activity within 3 hours which was a new record for me :ban:
 
brew2enjoy said:
Yes you can make a starter in just about any type of container. I use a big glass jar. Just loosly cover the top with a piece of sanitized foil. I actually just made a starter of WLP007 a few days ago and pitched it yesterday. I had activity within 3 hours which was a new record for me :ban:
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Is DME required? I am no where near a home brew store and was real hoping to get my brew started this week and DME is keeping from that if needed ha.
 
DME is not required, if you have extra grain lying around you could do a mini mash and just create some starter wort.

Those are pretty much your only options. You need an all malt starter (LME, DME, mashed grain). You don't want to feed only simple sugars (I.E. dextrose) to the yeast because they will acclimate to consuming those sugars only.

Wait to brew when you have a starter made and decanted to under 5% of your total wort volume. It makes enough of a noticeable difference to be worth it.
 
The recipe kit shows an OG of 1.054. You'll probably be fine just pitching the single vile without a starter as long as the yeast is fresh. If you're getting close to the expiration date then I'd make a starter, grab an additional vile of 007, or even just substitute a packet of dry yeast (Safale 04 or 05, Nottingham).

Yes, you'll be under-pitching by just using the one vile, but not so much to create dramatic off flavors. This is a robust porter, so there are a lot of strong flavors that can cover up slight flaws. Making a starter is better practice, but you're probably fine this time (again, provided the yeast is fresh).
 
It's really a good idea to make starters when using ANY liguid yeast for all beers above 1.020 OG...

The biggest reason I suggest folks make a starter is if you make one you'll have peace of mind. It's especially important if you have questionable situation happenning with your yeast, like not being sure the yeast arrived healthy. ;)

And you won't be starting an "is my yeast dead" thread in a couple of days.

Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.

You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.

Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.

So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.
 
Listen to Revvy on this one. Make a starter, you'll be glad you did.

1 gram of Dry Malt Extract per 10ml of water in the starter. So a 1 Liter starter will need 100grams of DME. Bring to a boil, cool back down to under 80* and pitch the yeast. Cover with foil, and swirl the starter a couple times a day until it's done fermenting. Then either cool it in the fridge to seperate the yeast from the liquid, or just pitch the whole starter into your wort.
 
Thanks for the help everyone!

Just order a thing of Coopers Light DME and am currently searching for a 2000ml Flask.

Thanks for the help.

EDIT: I may just go purchase a 2L Ball Jar because I am having no luck finding a Flask at a reasonable price.
 
A flask is nice because you can just boil everything right in it, without having to boil in a pot and sanitize a container to transfer it into. But it's by no means necessary. You could go get a Ball jar, or if you have a growler laying around you could use that. Good luck!
 
Just compared prices a bit. Would an Amber DME be better for a starter than the Light DME? Since I am using an Amber LME.

Also, would Wyeast Beer Nutrient be good for the starter?
 
Light DME, best for starter. And yes, yeast nutrient is always a plus both in the starter and in the final wort.

I should also say that you aren't worried about how your starter ends up tasting. You give the yeast warmer conditions and constant oxygenation for the starters. We aren't worried about producing great beer here, we just want the healthiest, largest amount of yeast. Stick the starter on a stir plate (or if you don't have one, shake it every couple of hours) for 36 hours, stick it in the refrigerator the day before you brew, and then a few hours before you need to pitch it, take it out and you'll have a nice compact layer of yeast on the bottom. Pour off almost all of the liquid above this layer of yeast (you'll want to end up with a volume that is 5% or less of your total wort volume) and then allow the yeast to warm to pitching temp.
 
Got everything needed today from the local brew shop for my starter.

My one final question is, how long should I let the starter grow before it is ready to be pitched? I've seen some people say no longer then 24 hours and others at least a couple days. I am hoping to brew either tomorrow evening or Friday at the latest.

Thanks again for the help!
 
Revvy said:
If I have the time and need a big starter I go 2-3 days feeding daily. But most of the time for average beers I just go 24 hours.
Click to expand...

I'll probably let it go for about 36 hours, which for this porter should be more than enough.

Thanks again for all the help and now all that is to do is brew. I did manage to make an Apple/Black Cherry Apfelwein since I couldn't brew the last couple days. Hopefully it turned out great.
 
cuse88 said:
On a side note, I don't think I got enough DME.

Will 2oz be enough for a 2L Starter?
Click to expand...

No it wouldn't, but you could do a liter with that. 007 is pretty wicked stuff. It would be sufficient for 95% of beers, I don't care what mrmalty says
 
bottlebomber said:
No it wouldn't, but you could do a liter with that. 007 is pretty wicked stuff. It would be sufficient for 95% of beers, I don't care what mrmalty says
Click to expand...

So I would be good with simply a liter culture? The brew store i 45+ mins away and someone I knew picked up an order I placed to the store and unfortunately what I ordered wasn't enough for a 2L.

So if that amount of DME will work then all is good.
 
Its a fine amount. If you tried to stretch 60 grams of DME into 2 liters it would work out to be 1.012 or something, too weak. What are you brewing?
 
cuse88 said:
The Coconut Porter kit (Extract) from AHS.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, no problem at all. If you knew you had good yeast you could get by with no starter at all, but one liter is more than enough for that beer.

EDIT:I if you were in this situation in the future and were doing a big beer and really needed the extra punch, it would be worth it to borrow some fermentables from the kit to make sure you had ample yeast
 
i use 1/10 the grams of DME as i do ml of fluid.

like, i have a starter cooling down right now (also for 007, weirdly enough). i used 1200ml of water and 120 grams of DME, if that makes sense.
 
Got the starter made up. Sitting in a dark area that sits at about 72 degrees. Hoping to brew tomorrow.

Thanks for the help.
 

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