Starter decanting vs. lag time

[AnonyBrew]

On my last 10g batch I made two starters using the same yeast on my stirplate, one for each 5g carboy. I made the first starter early in the week starting with 1L & bumping it to 2L the 2nd day. I let it sit on the stirplate for 3 days total then set it aside on the counter.

I poured a little of this starter into another 2 cups of wort & put the new starter on the stirplate, then bumped it to 1L the next day. It sat on the stirplate a total of 3 days.

When I was ready to pitch my yeast, the first starter (2L) which had been sitting on the counter was decanted & pitched into one 5g carboy. The second starter (1L) was still a little active so I pitched the whole thing into the other 5g carboy without decanting.

The fermenter with the 1L starter straight off the stirplate showed visible signs of fermentation within a few hours.

The fermenter with the 2L decanted starter did not show any signs of fermentation for 3 days.

I've read people decant their starters because they don't want nasty tasting oxidized wort mixed in with their beer, but if a decanted starter is going to have a 3 day lag time, what is worse?

I'm trying to decide a best practice on how to use my 1 stirplate for 10g batches in two 5g carboys. I have two 2L flasks & do not wish to purchase a larger one. Should I continue with this method? or try something else?

 

[Scimmia]

Depends on the reason for the "lag time". If you shocked the yeast, then it's a bad thing. If it's while the yeast are in the growth phase, it can be a good thing. 3 days is a bit extreme, though, something must have changed that stunned the yeast a bit.

 

[petep1980]

Did you chill to decant? Maybe the yeast got a little sluggish and took some time to warm up.

 

[kedash]

This doesn't entirely answer your question, but some helpful advice is that you don't want that first starter sitting on the counter that long after you have taken it off of the stirplate. You want to put it in the fridge. Also, Denny Conn told me that it's actually better to pitch that yeast cold (after you decant the wort). I'll go find that email from him and post his reasoning when I get the time to do so.

On my last 10g batch I made two starters using the same yeast on my stirplate, one for each 5g carboy. I made the first starter early in the week starting with 1L & bumping it to 2L the 2nd day. I let it sit on the stirplate for 3 days total then set it aside on the counter.

I poured a little of this starter into another 2 cups of wort & put the new starter on the stirplate, then bumped it to 1L the next day. It sat on the stirplate a total of 3 days.

When I was ready to pitch my yeast, the first starter (2L) which had been sitting on the counter was decanted & pitched into one 5g carboy. The second starter (1L) was still a little active so I pitched the whole thing into the other 5g carboy without decanting.

The fermenter with the 1L starter straight off the stirplate showed visible signs of fermentation within a few hours.

The fermenter with the 2L decanted starter did not show any signs of fermentation for 3 days.

I've read people decant their starters because they don't want nasty tasting oxidized wort mixed in with their beer, but if a decanted starter is going to have a 3 day lag time, what is worse?

I'm trying to decide a best practice on how to use my 1 stirplate for 10g batches in two 5g carboys. I have two 2L flasks & do not wish to purchase a larger one. Should I continue with this method? or try something else?

 

[AnonyBrew]

The first starter was on the counter at room temp. It was never refrigerated.

 

[petep1980]

The first starter was on the counter at room temp. It was never refrigerated.

How did you manage to decant at room temp?

 

[Reedwalker]

Yeah, I put the starter in the fridge when I decant. This causes more of the yeast in solution to flocc out.

 

[AnonyBrew]

How did you manage to decant at room temp?

The starter was pretty much done fermenting & there was a thick layer of yeast on the bottom. It was easy to pour off the beer from it.

 

[AnonyBrew]

Yeah, I put the starter in the fridge when I decant. This causes more of the yeast in solution to flocc out.

There was plenty of yeast sitting on the bottom. The same amount I normally see when I've refrigerated overnight.

 

[Hermit]

On my last 10g batch I made two starters using the same yeast on my stirplate, one for each 5g carboy. I made the first starter early in the week starting with 1L & bumping it to 2L the 2nd day. I let it sit on the stirplate for 3 days total then set it aside on the counter.

I poured a little of this starter into another 2 cups of wort & put the new starter on the stirplate, then bumped it to 1L the next day. It sat on the stirplate a total of 3 days.

When I was ready to pitch my yeast, the first starter (2L) which had been sitting on the counter was decanted & pitched into one 5g carboy. The second starter (1L) was still a little active so I pitched the whole thing into the other 5g carboy without decanting.

The fermenter with the 1L starter straight off the stirplate showed visible signs of fermentation within a few hours.

The fermenter with the 2L decanted starter did not show any signs of fermentation for 3 days.

I've read people decant their starters because they don't want nasty tasting oxidized wort mixed in with their beer, but if a decanted starter is going to have a 3 day lag time, what is worse?

I'm trying to decide a best practice on how to use my 1 stirplate for 10g batches in two 5g carboys. I have two 2L flasks & do not wish to purchase a larger one. Should I continue with this method? or try something else?

Maybe trade time on the stir plate with both?

 

[Randar]

The first starter was on the counter at room temp. It was never refrigerated.

That is a bit different than what most refer to as decanting. Chilling to drop the yeast out of solution and decanting the wort on top is what we refer to as decanting. What you did was to allow the full fermentation cycle (or near to it) to occur and then the yeast to naturally drop out when the consumable sugars were gone. This is similar to the yeast cake at the completion of fermentation of a batch of beer.

So, I believe your difference in lag time is not due to decanting or not decanting as you implemented it. It is more likely a reflection of the general activity of the yeast colony present in each.

 

[AnonyBrew]

That is a bit different than what most refer to as decanting. Chilling to drop the yeast out of solution and decanting the wort on top is what we refer to as decanting. What you did was to allow the full fermentation cycle (or near to it) to occur and then the yeast to naturally drop out when the consumable sugars were gone. This is similar to the yeast cake at the completion of fermentation of a batch of beer.

So, I believe your difference in lag time is not due to decanting or not decanting as you implemented it. It is more likely a reflection of the general activity of the yeast colony present in each.

For some reason I always thought people refrigerated their starters after it's fermented to get the most yeast. How do you know when the right time is to refrigerate it?

 

[Randar]

Maybe someone knows better than I, but I always try to hit it with the cold temps when it is still quite active but the yeast cake is well developed. But, it is honestly very dependent on the brew day schedule relative the state of the starter.

 

[android]

That is a bit different than what most refer to as decanting. Chilling to drop the yeast out of solution and decanting the wort on top is what we refer to as decanting.

i refer to decanting as leaving a majority of the wort behind prior to pitching... with a highly flocculant yeast like 002/1968, it will floc out the yeast in no time whether of not it's almost or completely fermented. i haven't had to refrigerate it to get a nice slurry.

 

[kedash]

Here is the info. about pitching cold yeast that I promised to post. It is from Denny Conn.

Yeah, I'd do them at least 3-5 days in advance to be sure. You can always stick 'em in the fridge if they're done too soon. Actually, it's advantageous to pitch yeast when it's cold. I don't use a stir plate and do mine 5-7 days in advance. When I'm ready to use them, I just take 'em out of the fridge, pour off the spent wort (except for a bit to swirl up the yeast), and pitch. By not letting the yeast warm up first, it doesn't start using up it's glycogen nutrient reserves til it's in the wort.

This doesn't entirely answer your question, but some helpful advice is that you don't want that first starter sitting on the counter that long after you have taken it off of the stirplate. You want to put it in the fridge. Also, Denny Conn told me that it's actually better to pitch that yeast cold (after you decant the wort). I'll go find that email from him and post his reasoning when I get the time to do so.