Star San. To rinse or not to rinse. What's your practice.

[Shuznuts]

So I've recently "upgraded" to star San from one step. The main reasons being I like the idea if a liquid cleaner and I feel more confident with an FDA approved sanitizer with the ingredients and concentrations listed on the label.

The new issue I've encountered is whether or not it's truly a no rinse product, to include all the foam. I've read that acid sanitizers such as star San can impart an off flavor to beer. I certainly don't have the pallet to detect these flavors, but I've been giving a lot of beer away to friends recently. As such, I've been rinsing my vessels after star San treatment to avoid possible flavor taints.

What's your practice? Do you rinse or not rinse and why?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[boydster]

Don't rinse it. It's a no-rinse sanitizer. Don't fear the foam. The sanitizer gets broken down and consumed by the yeast, and it's healthy for them as a source of phosphorus.

 

[LLBeanJ]

No rinse. If you're going to rinse it off, you might as well not even bother to use it at all.

 

[Shuznuts]

Don't rinse it. It's a no-rinse sanitizer. Don't fear the foam. The sanitizer gets broken down and consumed by the yeast, and it's healthy for them as a source of phosphorus.

Thanks for the insight. I've heard of star San being very yeast friendly. Can you elaborate on the biology behind this? I've always been curious. The more technical lingo the better for me. Also, if it's so yeast friendly, aside from sheer competition by our pitching inoculation, how are we able to avoid rampant wild yeast infections (in beer) if it really doesn't harm yeast at all?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Shuznuts]

No rinse. If you're going to rinse it off, you might as well not even bother to use it at all.

Reminds me of common practice for surgeons. We spend a great deal of time scrubbing the hell out of our hands before an operation then rinse them with un sterile water. I see your point though.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[boydster]

Thanks for the insight. I've heard of star San being very yeast friendly. Can you elaborate on the biology behind this? I've always been curious. The more technical lingo the better for me. Also, if it's so yeast friendly, aside from sheer competition by our pitching inoculation, how are we able to avoid rampant wild yeast infections (in beer) if it really doesn't harm yeast at all?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

It is effective against yeast, but not when diluted. As soon as the pH gets above 3, it's basically useless as a sanitizer. So, once you dilute with either water (rinsing), wort, or beer, it is no longer sanitizing. That's why you don't rinse - it literally keeps the surface it is touching sanitized until the moment the surface dries or the solution is diluted, at which point it becomes harmless and the yeast can actually use the phosphorus as a nutrient.

 

[boydster]

Look up "anionic acid sanitizer" on Google for all sorts of technical information on how it works

 

[Braufessor]

+1 - Don't rinse. There are no off flavors associated with it if used as directed.

It is not "yeast friendly". If you pitch your yeast into 5 gallons of starsan, it will kill your yeast. As mentioned though, when you dump 5 gallons of wort into a fermenter that had some foam or wet surface, it is immediately diluted to the point of no longer killing the yeast ( or anything else). What is left of it breaks down and yeast can comsume/use it (phosphate I think???) There are a couple good podcasts on the brewing network or some of the others that talk at length about star san (five star chemicals).

 

[masskrug]

I don't rinse. During bottling the bubbles all escape before I cap the beer anyway.

 

[kaconga]

I have a decent palate, my wife has a very sensitive palate and neither of us can taste a difference in a beer made with starsan as its sanitizer. My wife is especially sensitive to acids so I imagine she could pick it out if any non trained person would be able to. Infected beer however is easily detectable and never pleasantly so.

 

[Shuznuts]

This has been some good info with some sound scientific reasoning. Thank you all. As such, I will change my practice pattern. Interestingly enough, for my Oktoberfest I decided to not rinse the fermenter filling it up today. I shall rest more easy thanks to these points.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[gotbags-10]

So no worries about letting the sanitizer dry before using things like hydrometer or racking canes? What about bottles?

 

[boydster]

It is a wet contact sanitizer. Once a surface dries, it is no longer actively protecting that surface. Whether you feel the thing you sanitized has been compromised at that point is up to you (a bottle stored upside down in a clean, dust-free, breeze-free area is probably safe, for example), but the sanitizer is ineffective once it dries.

 

[Shuznuts]

It is a wet contact sanitizer. Once a surface dries, it is no longer actively protecting that surface. Whether you feel the thing you sanitized has been compromised at that point is up to you (a bottle stored upside down in a clean, dust-free, breeze-free area is probably safe, for example), but the sanitizer is ineffective once it dries.

What's your line of work if you don't mind me asking? Your reasoning is very scientific.



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[boydster]

What's your line of work if you don't mind me asking? Your reasoning is very scientific.

Haha, not a scientist, unless armchair science counts. Currently a stay-at-home father to a 15-month old girl and a couple boys that are a bit older. In a past life I was in the finance industry. But I do math for fun, and read science books to unwind.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

Haha, not a scientist, unless armchair science counts. Currently a stay-at-home father to a 15-month old girl and a couple boys that are a bit older. In a past life I was in the finance industry. But I do math for fun, and read science books to unwind.

I thought you busted my berries to unwind. I feel so disillusioned.


edit: Star San works best when you use duck pond water to dilute it, that way it has time to practice. it may not be necessary for me to rinse with my own urine, but it's sterile and I like the taste.

 

[boydster]

I thought you busted my berries to unwind. I feel so disillusioned.

Gimme some credit. I multitask, yo.

...Is this the real life?

 

[copyright1997]

After I clean carboys and kegs, I use another keg with Star San (pressurized a bit with co2) and pump some Star San into the newly cleaned container (carboy or keg). For carboys, I shake it up and seal the carboy with a carboy bung/stopper w/o hole, or simply with saran wrap plus a rubber band to keep air and other junk out of the carboy. For kegs, I put some Star San in (a few inches worth), and then seal with c02. For kegs, after adding the co2, I run a bit out of the beverage tube by attaching a picnic tap plus line to ensure the beverage tube also is sanitized and doesn't have any old beer from the prior use of the keg. For both, I shake and then let them sit (weeks, months) until I need to use them again. Nothing like a ready to go carboy or keg already cleaned and sanitized. Before using, I shake them up to make sure the Star San is on all internal surfaces, and again for keg attach a line and picnic tap to the beverage out and run a bit through. Before transferring wort to the carboy, or racking from carboy to the keg, I turn over the destination vessel and dump out the remaining Star San, but never ever rinse!

Using this technique, I have never had an issue with an infection in a keg or carboy, and they are ready to go when I need them. (Knock on wood.) Star San is awesome.

Hope this helps.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

Gimme some credit. I multitask, yo.

...Is this the real life?

easy there with the Queen...

 

[erick0619]

Don't fear the bubbles.

 

[atoughram]

it may not be necessary for me to rinse with my own urine, but it's sterile and I like the taste.

ROFLMAO!

 

[dustinolsen84]

I don't rise and have had zero problems.

 

[Trox]

So I've recently "upgraded" to star San from one step. The main reasons being I like the idea if a liquid cleaner and I feel more confident with an FDA approved sanitizer with the ingredients and concentrations listed on the label.

I'm kind of surprised no-one else has picked up on the bolded section. You can't upgrade from One Step to Star San since One step is a cleaner and Star San is a sanitizer; two completely different and very important steps for brewing. You CANNOT use Star San as a cleaner, that is not what it is designed for, and so it will not get the job done adequately. So you should still use the One Step to clean everything, and continue using the Star San for sanitizing.

 

[unionrdr]

I wrote an article on Starsan for any noob questions out there. But rinsing Starsan is like taking a shower in a rain coat. I swish a gallon of it around inside my fermenters & better bottle then dump back into it's jug with a wide mouth funnel. I leave as little foam behind as possible. But mostly to get as much Starsan back as I can.

 

[mdbrewer1]

After I clean carboys and kegs, I use another keg with Star San (pressurized a bit with co2) and pump some Star San into the newly cleaned container (carboy or keg). For carboys, I shake it up and seal the carboy with a carboy bung/stopper w/o hole, or simply with saran wrap plus a rubber band to keep air and other junk out of the carboy. For kegs, I put some Star San in (a few inches worth), and then seal with c02. For kegs, after adding the co2, I run a bit out of the beverage tube by attaching a picnic tap plus line to ensure the beverage tube also is sanitized and doesn't have any old beer from the prior use of the keg. For both, I shake and then let them sit (weeks, months) until I need to use them again. Nothing like a ready to go carboy or keg already cleaned and sanitized. Before using, I shake them up to make sure the Star San is on all internal surfaces, and again for keg attach a line and picnic tap to the beverage out and run a bit through. Before transferring wort to the carboy, or racking from carboy to the keg, I turn over the destination vessel and dump out the remaining Star San, but never ever rinse!

Using this technique, I have never had an issue with an infection in a keg or carboy, and they are ready to go when I need them. (Knock on wood.) Star San is awesome.

Hope this helps.

I love this idea. I'm going to borrow it when it comes time to clean out the two fermenters I currently have filled. What a great way to cut down a couple minutes on brew day. I try to brew early on weekend mornings so I can spend more time with the family, and I do my cleaning in the evening after the kids have gone to bed, this should work out wonderfully.

 

[Gameface]

I love this idea. I'm going to borrow it when it comes time to clean out the two fermenters I currently have filled. What a great way to cut down a couple minutes on brew day. I try to brew early on weekend mornings so I can spend more time with the family, and I do my cleaning in the evening after the kids have gone to bed, this should work out wonderfully.

I'm not such a big fan of this technique. Star San leaves a slimy film after a while and it doesn't smell good. I don't "fear the foam" at all, but I don't want Star San slime either.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

I'm not such a big fan of this technique. Star San leaves a slimy film after a while and it doesn't smell good. I don't "fear the foam" at all, but I don't want Star San slime either.

I forgot about 2 1/2 gallons in a bucket. went to rinse it out and it had the slime. I remember thinking "good thing I didn't leave this in a keg."

 

[mdbrewer1]

I'm not such a big fan of this technique. Star San leaves a slimy film after a while and it doesn't smell good. I don't "fear the foam" at all, but I don't want Star San slime either.

Interesting. I've only used One-Step in the past, but am going to move to Star-San since I just ran out of One-Step. Hopefully copywright or others can provide some feedback if they've experienced the same slime issue using this technique.

 

[Gameface]

Interesting. I've only used One-Step in the past, but am going to move to Star-San since I just ran out of One-Step. Hopefully copywright or others can provide some feedback if they've experienced the same slime issue using this technique.

Star San is not a replacement for one-step. One-step is a cleaner and Star San is a sanitizer.

Star San is great! I just don't recommend letting it sit on a vessel for long periods of time with the intent of using without rinsing.

I have a spray bottle of star san that get's replaced every brew day (because I mix a new batch in my fermenter and run that off into the spray bottle and my blow off receptacle). In between brew days I have no problem using the spray bottle even if it has been sitting for a week or more.

When I do use star san I use it right before I'm going to use whatever I sanitize and I DO NOT rinse it off.

 

[mdbrewer1]

Star San is not a replacement for one-step. One-step is a cleaner and Star San is a sanitizer.

Star San is great! I just don't recommend letting it sit on a vessel for long periods of time with the intent of using without rinsing.

I have a spray bottle of star san that get's replaced every brew day (because I mix a new batch in my fermenter and run that off into the spray bottle and my blow off receptacle). In between brew days I have no problem using the spray bottle even if it has been sitting for a week or more.

When I do use star san I use it right before I'm going to use whatever I sanitize and I DO NOT rinse it off.

I belatedly realized that One-Step is technically not listed as a sanitizer, but I've used it for 4 batches and not had any issues. Perhaps I've been lucky, but from reading the manufacturer's site, it sounds like it can be used as a "pseudo sanitizer" (my phrasing) but they didn't want to have to go through the steps to get it officially listed as a sanitizer. I now have PBW and Star-San, so that shouldn't be a potential issue any longer.

Since copywright has first-hand experience with the process and says he's waited weeks and months between uses, perhaps the sealing of the vessels helps in some manner in reducing/eliminating slime? I'm curious if anyone else has tried to before and can provide additional first-hand experience.

 

[Gameface]

I belatedly realized that One-Step is technically not listed as a sanitizer, but I've used it for 4 batches and not had any issues. Perhaps I've been lucky, but from reading the manufacturer's site, it sounds like it can be used as a "pseudo sanitizer" (my phrasing) but they didn't want to have to go through the steps to get it officially listed as a sanitizer. I now have PBW and Star-San, so that shouldn't be a potential issue any longer.

Since copywright has first-hand experience with the process and says he's waited weeks and months between uses, perhaps the sealing of the vessels helps in some manner in reducing/eliminating slime? I'm curious if anyone else has tried to before and can provide additional first-hand experience.

Fact is that if your equipment is clean you'll probably rarely have an infection even without using sanitizer.

The problem with "one-step" is that in the past they have marketed themselves as a one-step cleaner and sanitizer. That's simply misleading because cleaning and sanitizing should always be too separate steps. One-step does kill microbes but since it needs to be rinsed the possibility of reintroducing microbes is there. With star san you know that if the item you're using is wet with star san that it is sanitized.

Why take anyone else's word for it? Mix up a little star san in a jar, cap it and let it sit for a couple weeks. Open it up, take whiff and feel the inside where the star san was.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

I belatedly realized that One-Step is technically not listed as a sanitizer, but I've used it for 4 batches and not had any issues. Perhaps I've been lucky, but from reading the manufacturer's site, it sounds like it can be used as a "pseudo sanitizer" (my phrasing) but they didn't want to have to go through the steps to get it officially listed as a sanitizer. I now have PBW and Star-San, so that shouldn't be a potential issue any longer.

Since copywright has first-hand experience with the process and says he's waited weeks and months between uses, perhaps the sealing of the vessels helps in some manner in reducing/eliminating slime? I'm curious if anyone else has tried to before and can provide additional first-hand experience.

that very well may be. but I feel cleaning kegs in a pain enough. I personally don't want to risk the slime in a keg. any tight spot can be bad enough.

 

[MichaelBrock]

Why take anyone else's word for it? Mix up a little star san in a jar, cap it and let it sit for a couple weeks. Open it up, take whiff and feel the inside where the star san was.

I mix 5 gallon batches of star-san stored in plastic buckets and have never had any slime. Even after a few months. My understanding is that this may be related to the water used. I use RO/DI water. I have never tried it with tap water.

 

[Thetonymartin]

I'm kind of surprised no-one else has picked up on the bolded section. You can't upgrade from One Step to Star San since One step is a cleaner and Star San is a sanitizer; two completely different and very important steps for brewing. You CANNOT use Star San as a cleaner, that is not what it is designed for, and so it will not get the job done adequately. So you should still use the One Step to clean everything, and continue using the Star San for sanitizing.

+25 !!
True that. Cleaners don't sanitize, and sanitizers don't clean.

 

[jzamora3]

I don't rinse. I'm about a dozen batches in and haven't noticed any off flavors from the starsan.

 

[Shuznuts]

Here a brief article on one step.

http://www.ecologiccleansers.com/one-step.php

In short, one step is marketed as a no rinse cleaner and sanitizer, but labeled as a cleaner to avoid the regulations needed to comply with this designations as set forth by the EPA. I mistakenly said FDA in my original post. I've used one step for years strictly as a no rinse sanitizer with good results. About 1 month ago I made the switch for the reasons previously outlined. I will agree. It does get slimy sitting around!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[mdbrewer1]

I haven't rinsed with One-Step since it says on the container not to. I'm not well versed in craft beer yet,so I might not know any better, but I haven't noticed any odd flavors. My hands have always felt like they have a little coating on them after I reach into a bucket of it, but I haven't kept it around long enough to know if it leaves slime behind on my equipment.

 

[Shuznuts]

Oh shoot. I wasn't very clear. When I switched to star San, I noticed it makes slime when sitting long term. One step never did that for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[kaconga]

I use distilled water with my star san and never get slimy stuff that I have noticed. I will check my bucket tonight when I get home to confirm that though.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I use tap water and it never gets slimy. I usually mix up about 4 gallons and store it in a Homer bucket for about a month or so before I replace it. However, I found out early on that if you leave PVC tubing soaking in Starsan, the tubing will get slimy and turn cloudy.